ISIS Asian attack in London yesterday,

[Keith]

OK guys, we've said our piece on the gun issue. Let's halt it right there on this thread and carry on if you feel you need to on the Political Thread because I suppose ultimately, it is political rather than anything else...

Further pro/anti gun posts on this thread will be moved.

I would still like a response from anyone on their opinion of the London Mayor's quote "that we should expect terrorism living in a large city" I suppose it's like saying, we should expect to be burgled or raped or something like that. Should we? Really?

I think it's an appalling thing to say but maybe I'm being too precious about it. OK it might be a reality from time to time but to have to expect it?

 

[Jack]

Well Keith, he should have expounded a bit to include "Because of the islamic influence", or something of that nature.

 

[Keith]

Well Keith, he should have expounded a bit to include "Because of the islamic influence", or something of that nature.

You be right Jack in an ideal world, but with a name like Sadiq Khan would he be likely to? They may have even rubbed shoulders at the local mosque, or perhaps that's going too far. Hope the PC brigade are sleeping else I'll get a good whippin' - might even enjoy it. :shy:

 

[Doug S.]

I would still like a response from anyone on their opinion of the London Mayor's quote "that we should expect terrorism living in a large city" I suppose it's like saying, we should expect to be burgled or raped or something like that. Should we? Really?

I think it's an appalling thing to say but maybe I'm being too precious about it. OK it might be a reality from time to time but to have to expect it

It's a matter of statistics, Keith. Take life insurance for an example...the actuaries (those who sit around and crunch the numbers) know with exact precision the percentage of our population who will die within a calendar year, although they cannot predict with much accuracy who those individuals will be...that is why they require physical examinations for the older population (like me)...they want to beat the statistics if at all possible.I think your mayor's quote may be right...more people living in a large city would equate to a higher number of terrorist attacks because, statistically, the number of terrorists would be higher within a highly populated region than in a sparsely populated region.

It is a sad situation, indeed, that we all have to look over our shoulders so much these days to avoid crime (of which terrorism would be one example), but it is a reality. I admired the French after one of their terrible terrorist attacks. Their attitude was "We are going to continue being French and all that entails, terrorism or not".

From the standpoint of a terrorist, I would suspect they target populated areas because one or two deaths from a bombing in a small hamlet may not be AS newsworthy as a hundred deaths from a bombing in a large city (and we all know the terrorists gain publicity from their attacks...and then use that to recruit more impressionable individuals). Think of these random attacks much like the issue of random automobile accidents...more drivers/traffic=more accidents. Why would it not be applicable to terrorism, too...more jihadists/terrorists=more attacks?

Almost two years ago I relocated from the Houston, TX area to a very sparsely populated area for just that reason...it was draining my spirit to have to hear on the morning news about the number of crimes that were committed the night before in Houston...that is certainly not a problem in this remotely populated area where the nearest WalMart is 90 miles away and the nearest McDonalds is 32 miles away. Fewer people certainly=less instances of crime in this area, as we would expect if my statements above regarding statistics and the ability to predict certain events are true.

I agree, too...it's a sad state of affairs, here's hoping it gets better rather than worse...but if you are accepting more refugees, then STATISTICALLY I don't think we can expect that.

Cheers?...not quite sure

Doug

 

[Doug S.]

You be right Jack in an ideal world, but with a name like Sadiq Khan would he be likely to?

Sounds like your mayor might not be of British descent...???

Your point is well taken, Keith...just curious, is the refugee population in London high enough that they were able to elect an Islamic mayor (maybe it's me now who is assuming too much...he might not be Islamic, but still be middle-eastern)?

I watched as a fairly moderately populated area adjacent to the city of Houston was taken over by Asians. Back in the middle to late 1970's the various churches were sponsoring Asian refugees, most of whom settled into the small town of Alief, TX. The population grew so quickly that soon the political atmosphere changed due to the voting power of the Asian population. Now the city leaders are all Asians and the street signs are in some sort of Asian script that only the Asians can read...and that all started with a relatively small number of Asians.

Could this happen in London? Logic would predict that "Yes" is the answer...and you may have pegged one instance of that with your question regarding the mayor's name.

Cheers!

Doug

 

[Larry L.]

I would still like a response from anyone on their opinion of the London Mayor's quote "that we should expect terrorism living in a large city"

He's flat-out nuts. What we should "expect" is to be able to go about our daily lives w/o being victims of any sort of crime - especially violent ones.

But, given the realities of today's world, what we should also "expect" is for our governments to set "p.c." aside and do everything in their power to keep those who would perpetrate violence against us OUT of our countries.

'Hope that was phrased 'sensitively' enough... :nice:

 

[Malcolm]

OK guys, we've said our piece on the gun issue. Let's halt it right there on this thread and carry on if you feel you need to on the Political Thread because I suppose ultimately, it is political rather than anything else...

Further pro/anti gun posts on this thread will be moved.

I would still like a response from anyone on their opinion of the London Mayor's quote "that we should expect terrorism living in a large city" I suppose it's like saying, we should expect to be burgled or raped or something like that. Should we? Really?

I think it's an appalling thing to say but maybe I'm being too precious about it. OK it might be a reality from time to time but to have to expect it?

Sorry didn't feel minded to respond before as thread was going off track.

I worked in central London for 7 years for the railways. I was based in an office above a main terminus. This period of time coincided with the troubles from NI although not as bad as in previous periods. I had four contacts with associated acts of terror.

1. I was asked by a colleague how best to get a taxi off the roof of a building as that is where it had landed.

2. A friend was walking to one station when it went bang in front of him. So he walked to the next station and that also went bang in front of him. He said sod it I'm going home for the day.

3. I closed a station down when I found a suspicious box at the base of a bridge support and reported it. It was found to be nothing to worry about.

4. I had to attend regular terrorism training on how to deal with taking a bomb threat phone call and all our offices had blast proof glass.

There is a 5th connection but that was me closing Leceister Square tube station in rush hour on a Friday night when I ran to catch the train and jumped in to find my hand hadn't made it. That hand was holding my briefcase so as the train pulled off with the tunnel fast approaching I let go. My brief case landed on the platform and I disappeared down the tunnel. Went back to find a full scale evacuation going on! Even though I reported what had happened to the first member of staff they still blew my brief case up. What was interesting though was that someone had picked up my briefcase and taken it from the platform and gone all the way up to the ticket office area and just put it down in the middle of the public space and walked away! WTF! I was given that for my 21st birthday by Mum and Dad. However I was just so embarrassed by causing the closure of the station.

Large gatherings of people will always be targets to groups who want to create an impact. In WW2 did both sides target the countryside with their bombing runs? No they went for where there would be the largest impact be it disruption or wiping out cities.

I was born and still live close to Farnborough in Hampshire. That town lies between Aldershot known as the home of the British army and Sandhurst which is where all army officers get trained. During the cold war and nuclear stand off afterwards, it was common knowledge around here that we always had a nuke pointed at us. Maybe we still do. But whose now?

If you live in a nice big house with nice toys in the garage you are likely to have a nice security system. Why? because you have made yourself more of a target.

If you live in a city you are putting yourself in a situation where you are more likely to have something bad happen to you. Mugging, pick pocket or terrorist attack. Individually we each make a calculated risk. Some more cautious than others. But shit still happens. You are however also going to get great upside with city life.

Each time I get in my GTD I put myself at risk. It can be fast and has rubbish visibility to side and rear. You drive accordingly.

The Mayors comment is valid but has been taken out of context and was quoted by the son of a numpty, not the numpty himself.

My distorted view of USA is that if you live there you either live in a tornado/hurricane alley, over a fault line or on top of the mother of all volcanoes!

Rocks lead to knives lead to bigger knives lead to guns lead to bigger guns lead to bombs lead to bigger bombs lead to rocks again.

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

It's amazing that one group of people have so profoundly changed our lives, in the way we travel, what we look out for, the way we look at other people, virtually every aspect of life. We sacrifice our young in wars because of it. We allow PC to handcuff us to make it worse. You couldn't make this scenario up. It's working. I wonder what they will dream up next?

 

[Larry L.]

My distorted view of USA is that if you live there you either live in a tornado/hurricane alley, over a fault line or on top of the mother of all volcanoes!

'Never thought of it that way, but by the gods of Mt. Olympus - you're pretty much dead on!

Personally, I can see a 'semi-active' volcano from my house...and live within 100 miles of another...and within about 300 miles of a third ('as the crow flies'). The latter erupted big time back in 1980...you may have heard about it. Mt. St. Helens?. 'Wife and I heard it blow! We thought some yo-yo had set off a stick of dynamite a mile or two away.

In addition, we live right ON the "Pacific Ring of Fire".

But, herewith I duth create thread drift...so...

FINI -

 

[Nick]

Andrew Neil explains why for him and many other British Citizens. "in all shapes, all sizes, all colours, all faiths" terrorists will never prevail

“Keith Palmer had been a copper for 15 years, a husband, a dad, brother, uncle, public servant. Before joining the police, he’d been in the army, defending our nation.
“Yesterday he was murdered defending our democracy, defending the very heart of our democracy from a barbarian at the gate.

“Just doing his duty, reminding us of something we badly needed reminding, that this most important people in this country are not the rich, the powerful, the famous but those who run to confront the enemies of our civilisation while the rest of us are running away. First responders like PC Palmer.

“Brutally stabbed to death by a jumped-up jihadi, not fit to breathe the same air as the man he killed.

“Now I know there are still some ‘Jihadi Johnnies’ out there who think they will eventually triumph because their love of death is greater than our love of life.”

“Do you have any idea who you’re dealing with? This is the country that stood up alone to the might of the Luftwaffe, air force of the greatest evil mankind has ever known.

“If you think we’re going to be cowed by some pathetic, Poundland terrorist in an estate car with a knife, then you’re as delusional as you are malevolent.

“Yes, you have the power to hurt us. Sometimes the hurt is more than we can bear - but you cannot defeat us.

“Because for every brainwashed, brain dead Islamist you send to do us harm, we have thousands upon thousands of Keith Palmers. You find them in every walk of life and in every part of the land, they come in all shapes, all sizes, all colours, all faiths. They are the British people and against them you will never prevail.”

Andrew Neil This Week London Terror Attack tribute to Keith Palmer 23/3/17 - YouTube

 

[Keith]

Very well said Andrew Neil. Thanks for posting that Nick..:thumbsup:

Malcolm, your 'railway' stories made i laugh, a lot! Thanks for posting mate...

 

[Keith]

Sounds like your mayor might not be of British descent...???

Your point is well taken, Keith...just curious, is the refugee population in London high enough that they were able to elect an Islamic mayor (maybe it's me now who is assuming too much...he might not be Islamic, but still be middle-eastern)?

I watched as a fairly moderately populated area adjacent to the city of Houston was taken over by Asians. Back in the middle to late 1970's the various churches were sponsoring Asian refugees, most of whom settled into the small town of Alief, TX. The population grew so quickly that soon the political atmosphere changed due to the voting power of the Asian population. Now the city leaders are all Asians and the street signs are in some sort of Asian script that only the Asians can read...and that all started with a relatively small number of Asians.

Could this happen in London? Logic would predict that "Yes" is the answer...and you may have pegged one instance of that with your question regarding the mayor's name.

Cheers!

Doug

Yes Doug, this process started some years back and in a couple of boroughs, 'Sharia' patrols were popping up with Arabic script street signs to boot. However, nothing stings the British Police Forces into action as much as a para-police or vigilante presence or worse, the provocative description as a 'Police no-go area' and so it was quietly 'sorted'. However the issue still crops up from time to time. To be honest, a quiet professional approach is far more effective than a violent reaction as it starves the perpetrators of vital oxygen which is what they crave. You might see the odd YouTube video of such behaviour and a few ''pro radical Islamic chanting crowds' etc but it is in a minority whatever the right-wing press might slaver over. Much of the Asian community is hard working and business owning, with a fairly even split between Muslim & Hindu who tend to keep each other 'honest'.

It is also worth remembering that London (especially the immigrant dominated East London area), has been a traditional hot bed of revolutionary politics for hundreds of years. Both the French & Russian revolutions were openly planned here, and (armed) Anarchists roamed the streets pre WWI... here's one of them:

Peter_the_Painter

So we are reasonably used to political mayhem and the citizens usually cock a snook at them and get on with their daily lives.. It's part of London's rich history! Some folks think we are indifferent to this kind of thing. Not really, it's just dealt with a bit differently despite the ravings of the gutter press..

 

[Nick]

To be honest, a quiet professional approach is far more effective than a violent reaction as it starves the perpetrators of vital oxygen which is what they crave. You might see the odd YouTube video of such behaviour and a few ''pro radical Islamic chanting crowds' etc but it is in a minority whatever the right-wing press might slaver over. Much of the Asian community is hard working and business owning, with a fairly even split between Muslim & Hindu who tend to keep each other 'honest'.

So we are reasonably used to political mayhem and the citizens usually cock a snook at them and get on with their daily lives.. It's part of London's rich history! Some folks think we are indifferent to this kind of thing. Not really, it's just dealt with a bit differently despite the ravings of the gutter press..

Well said Keith, in my opinion another "quiet professional approach" Archbishop of Canterbury responds in House of Lords I had to look the meaning of nihilistic up a more apt word would be hard to find.

adjective
rejecting all religious and moral principles in the belief that life is meaningless.

Channel 4 News - "That generosity and extraordinary sense...


“But I want in terms of values, to refer to something that seems to me to go deeper, to something that is really at the foundation of our own understanding of what our society is about, and to do that in three very simple, very brief pictures.

“The first is of a vehicle being driven across Westminster Bridge by someone who had a perverted, nihilistic, despairing view of objectives of what life is about, of what society is about, that could only be fulfilled by death and destruction.

“The second is of that same person a few minutes later, on a stretcher or on the ground, being treated by the very people he had sought to kill.

“The third is of these two Houses, where profound disagreement, bitter disagreement, angry disagreement is dealt with not with violence, not with despair, not with cruelty, but with discussion, with reason and with calmness.

“My Lords, it seems to me that those three pictures point us to deep values within our own society – deeper even than ones that have been mentioned, quite rightly, in the Prime Minister’s statement

Where we do what is right; where we behave properly; where that generosity and extraordinary sense of duty that leads people to treat a terrorist is shown; where that bravery of someone like PC Keith Palmer is demonstrated, that there is a victory for what is right and good; over what is evil, despairing and bad.

 

[Keith]

:thumbsup: