This may be a post that is not allowed, or may be in the wrong forum, i apologize if it is. But in trying to establish a value for a mark V GT40 I have been very unsuccesful. I am currently looking at the purchase of such a car. it is one of thearly mark V's built with the continuation serail number, less than 5,000 miles unmolested since built, webbers, 302, looks like new. what are the ball park numbers for this car? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Mark V value
- Thread starter rsinor
- Start date
I'd search SCM to see the prices that these cars have gone for at auction.
IMO there is no "investment" reason to buy one of these cars.
Their value lays in their quality but IMO they are no different from any well done replica which often sell for less than you could build them for today.
IMO there is no "investment" reason to buy one of these cars.
Their value lays in their quality but IMO they are no different from any well done replica which often sell for less than you could build them for today.
Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
The Mark V cars have a number of features that IMHO make them "original" GT40s:
1) they are made in part from the original tooling (molds)
2) the makers BOUGHT the rights to build them from the individuals who had been given that right by Ford- on paper, from what I recall.
3) the chassis redesign was done by the original chassis engineer
Keep in mind the circumstances under which the Mark V cars were built. There was NO GT40 craze then. There was no new Ford GT. There WERE a bunch of old decrepit race cars around and the cost of restoring them was felt to be prohibitive as they were not considered particularly valuable (Jim, I am not talking about 1075 or J6 and their brethren). The Mark V cars were built after making a decision to put back into production the original car, with updates to make it safer, better built, and accommodate some system improvements (brakes, for example).
Peter Thorp and the subsequent American owners of the Safir company and its' intellectual property are the ONLY GT40 constructors who have bothered to pay a royalty for the appearance of the car and its' brand name. No one else has. Not Lee Holman, not anyone. Everyone else has assumed it is public domain, which it really is not.
I realize this post may draw a lot of attention and not in a good way. Some may feel that it is inflammatory etc and if so, understand that is not my intention. But those who read this forum should understand that when Peter Thorp decided to build GT40s again, he went about it in what I consider the right way: he made an agreement with the folks who had the rights to the name, shape etc, and paid them for the privilege of building them. All those items mentioned above, and Thorp's efforts to ensure continuity, make the Mark V cars every bit as much GT40s as any original car. Keep in mind that at the time, value was not Peter's concern; no one could have foreseen what these cars would be worth someday. Authenticity WAS his concern, and for adding thirty-odd original cars to the group, he deserves everyone's recognition and approbation. So do the cars themselves.
I am not neutral here, as some of you know. My GT40 will be a Safir car and carry as Safir serial number, as it is being built by them. However, I would hope that those who know me realize that my position on this issue is not dictated by any advantage that might come my way in terms of the eventual value of the car. The value of the car to me is in how successful it turns out in its' performance, not in its' worth at auction, a venue that I hope it doesn't see until after I am long gone.
1) they are made in part from the original tooling (molds)
2) the makers BOUGHT the rights to build them from the individuals who had been given that right by Ford- on paper, from what I recall.
3) the chassis redesign was done by the original chassis engineer
Keep in mind the circumstances under which the Mark V cars were built. There was NO GT40 craze then. There was no new Ford GT. There WERE a bunch of old decrepit race cars around and the cost of restoring them was felt to be prohibitive as they were not considered particularly valuable (Jim, I am not talking about 1075 or J6 and their brethren). The Mark V cars were built after making a decision to put back into production the original car, with updates to make it safer, better built, and accommodate some system improvements (brakes, for example).
Peter Thorp and the subsequent American owners of the Safir company and its' intellectual property are the ONLY GT40 constructors who have bothered to pay a royalty for the appearance of the car and its' brand name. No one else has. Not Lee Holman, not anyone. Everyone else has assumed it is public domain, which it really is not.
I realize this post may draw a lot of attention and not in a good way. Some may feel that it is inflammatory etc and if so, understand that is not my intention. But those who read this forum should understand that when Peter Thorp decided to build GT40s again, he went about it in what I consider the right way: he made an agreement with the folks who had the rights to the name, shape etc, and paid them for the privilege of building them. All those items mentioned above, and Thorp's efforts to ensure continuity, make the Mark V cars every bit as much GT40s as any original car. Keep in mind that at the time, value was not Peter's concern; no one could have foreseen what these cars would be worth someday. Authenticity WAS his concern, and for adding thirty-odd original cars to the group, he deserves everyone's recognition and approbation. So do the cars themselves.
I am not neutral here, as some of you know. My GT40 will be a Safir car and carry as Safir serial number, as it is being built by them. However, I would hope that those who know me realize that my position on this issue is not dictated by any advantage that might come my way in terms of the eventual value of the car. The value of the car to me is in how successful it turns out in its' performance, not in its' worth at auction, a venue that I hope it doesn't see until after I am long gone.
great post Jim, there is even a lot to know about the 40..
Thank u
Paul
Thank u
Paul
Jim
Holman and Moody are the original mfg. of the MKII and the original MKII's are stamped/chassis plated with Holman Moody Chassis plates. IMO they retain all rights to the MKII and I believe that is the way the courts will rule.
That Circus aside IMO the Mark V's are very well done continuation MKI cars which is not the same as an original, as are of course the car's Lee now makes although in his case they are closer to MKII clones as he has reproduced them exactly as they were originally built as opposed to "improving" them which of course is always in the eye of the beholder.
One interesting aspect to all of this is if Saffir and Holman and Moody are chassis plated as the mfg. for the cars they are building today assuming they produce finished cars as opposed to kit cars can they be street registered?
Original Ford GT's can be legally registered as cars can Saffirs? (Ones less than 25 years old?) Or are they sold as kit cars to which the buyer adds the drivetrain?
In your case this is not a problem as you are defineately building your car as opposed to buying a turn key car but is a turn key Mark V legal to register?
Best
Holman and Moody are the original mfg. of the MKII and the original MKII's are stamped/chassis plated with Holman Moody Chassis plates. IMO they retain all rights to the MKII and I believe that is the way the courts will rule.
That Circus aside IMO the Mark V's are very well done continuation MKI cars which is not the same as an original, as are of course the car's Lee now makes although in his case they are closer to MKII clones as he has reproduced them exactly as they were originally built as opposed to "improving" them which of course is always in the eye of the beholder.
One interesting aspect to all of this is if Saffir and Holman and Moody are chassis plated as the mfg. for the cars they are building today assuming they produce finished cars as opposed to kit cars can they be street registered?
Original Ford GT's can be legally registered as cars can Saffirs? (Ones less than 25 years old?) Or are they sold as kit cars to which the buyer adds the drivetrain?
In your case this is not a problem as you are defineately building your car as opposed to buying a turn key car but is a turn key Mark V legal to register?
Best
"The Mark V is a fifth variant of the GT40. Although outwardly identical to the Mark I." To quote the #1 officando fo the GT40 Ronnie Spain in a two page letter "Therefor, as kind of a self-appointed custodian of GT40 morals I am pleased to say that unlike the above (referring to several kits) the Mark V GT40 offers me no such problems." "The Mark V is a GT40."
The car I am looking at is titled and it was shipped as a complete car in 1985 to california. It's serial number is GT40 P/109x (x is an actual number on the plate) With a grid code JxR2Wxx9 (x are actual letters in the grid) the nine indicates contiuation build/new chassis. vehicle P1075 arguably the most succesful and sought after GT40 has a serial plate GT40 P/1075 with a grid code of JFR1WWL2. The J means both cars were built under license from Ford motor company by JW Automotive.
Not Alan Mann, Ford Motor, Holman-Moody, Kar Kraft, Shelby American, or Ford Advanced Vehicles who all built recognized variants. So while it may be a continuation to the mark I that was built in 1985 it is pretty hard to say it is a replica or kit, unless of course you consider the Mark I built under similar agreement a kit car and if that is the case then most of the original GT40's were kits. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I'm not here to debate the fact of what the car is or is not. I wouold just like to know if there are any comparables? Does anyone know of a record showing the dollar amount these cars change hands for. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
The car I am looking at is titled and it was shipped as a complete car in 1985 to california. It's serial number is GT40 P/109x (x is an actual number on the plate) With a grid code JxR2Wxx9 (x are actual letters in the grid) the nine indicates contiuation build/new chassis. vehicle P1075 arguably the most succesful and sought after GT40 has a serial plate GT40 P/1075 with a grid code of JFR1WWL2. The J means both cars were built under license from Ford motor company by JW Automotive.
Not Alan Mann, Ford Motor, Holman-Moody, Kar Kraft, Shelby American, or Ford Advanced Vehicles who all built recognized variants. So while it may be a continuation to the mark I that was built in 1985 it is pretty hard to say it is a replica or kit, unless of course you consider the Mark I built under similar agreement a kit car and if that is the case then most of the original GT40's were kits. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I'm not here to debate the fact of what the car is or is not. I wouold just like to know if there are any comparables? Does anyone know of a record showing the dollar amount these cars change hands for. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Sorry Roy, I can't help much with the value of the MK V. But I do know that it is indeed less than an original GT. The MK V's are GT40s no doubt as they have the pedigree by proof of the dockumentation. They are continuations.
Jim, I have no facts other than what I have been told about Safir.They were to build only a certain limited amount of cars. All the owners recieved their cars but then Safir continued to make them. As I understand it the owners filed a class action suit to cease the further production of Safir GT's. The owners won and I believe there were no more MK V's produced. It sounds logical but the true story may only be known by those who were involved. All I know is that if I had the money for a Safir I damn sure would buy it.
Hersh /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Jim, I have no facts other than what I have been told about Safir.They were to build only a certain limited amount of cars. All the owners recieved their cars but then Safir continued to make them. As I understand it the owners filed a class action suit to cease the further production of Safir GT's. The owners won and I believe there were no more MK V's produced. It sounds logical but the true story may only be known by those who were involved. All I know is that if I had the money for a Safir I damn sure would buy it.
Hersh /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
To try to answer a few questions as best I can: most of the original run of GT40s were sold as completed vehicles. A few were sold as rollers and the drivetrains installed later on. I suspect things were a good deal looser in those days, clearly.
Safir GT40 Mark Vs were sold mostly as completed vehicles, from what I gather, but some were sold as rollers. I don't think any were sold as kits.
The agreement made when the Safir company was purchased was not to make any more Mark V cars. They are allowed to replace monocoques in cars damaged in accidents, which a few have been. Note that my car has a Mark I tub, not a Mark V, and they are not precluded from building Mark I cars. The differences are significant, as we found out when we discovered that Mark V suspension wishbones would not fit the Mark I chassis. The revised Mark V tub included the suspension changes devised by the Alan Mann team. However, my tub was evidently built from a set of Mark I templates, and we ended up having to have an entire set of suspension arms made up just for it. Which I hope I never have to replace...
My understanding is that when Mark V cars come on the market they typically trade in the 175K and up range, possibly up as high as 250K depending on how they are equipped. There were some aluminum tub cars which I suppose would be worth more since they are rarer. None of these vehicles have race history and they are not sixties-era artifacts so it makes sense that they would cost far less. I cannot imagine that any authentic sixties GT40 would sell for less than half to three-quarters of a million dollars. There is a restorable nonrunning car that I believe the owner has declined 650K for.
Jim is correct that the Mark II cars were built by H&M, which I think is the reason they won a lot of races. Their car preparation was as good as anyone's and better than most, I daresay. Their authority to build those vehicles was never limited in time and I guess in a sense the new Mark II cars that Lee builds are the "most authentic". Granted, Holman is not the same company that it was, but the continuity in the family should count for something. And he has kept to the letter of the originals. That may be one reason why they cost so much; he has chosen to reproduce some very expensive and rare bits instead of using modern equivalents.
The work on my car continues. We hope to have it "on its' feet" within the next few months, maybe sooner. No matter where you are on this planet, the day it finally moves under its' own power, you'll be able to hear the shouts of joy just by sticking your head out the window.
Safir GT40 Mark Vs were sold mostly as completed vehicles, from what I gather, but some were sold as rollers. I don't think any were sold as kits.
The agreement made when the Safir company was purchased was not to make any more Mark V cars. They are allowed to replace monocoques in cars damaged in accidents, which a few have been. Note that my car has a Mark I tub, not a Mark V, and they are not precluded from building Mark I cars. The differences are significant, as we found out when we discovered that Mark V suspension wishbones would not fit the Mark I chassis. The revised Mark V tub included the suspension changes devised by the Alan Mann team. However, my tub was evidently built from a set of Mark I templates, and we ended up having to have an entire set of suspension arms made up just for it. Which I hope I never have to replace...
My understanding is that when Mark V cars come on the market they typically trade in the 175K and up range, possibly up as high as 250K depending on how they are equipped. There were some aluminum tub cars which I suppose would be worth more since they are rarer. None of these vehicles have race history and they are not sixties-era artifacts so it makes sense that they would cost far less. I cannot imagine that any authentic sixties GT40 would sell for less than half to three-quarters of a million dollars. There is a restorable nonrunning car that I believe the owner has declined 650K for.
Jim is correct that the Mark II cars were built by H&M, which I think is the reason they won a lot of races. Their car preparation was as good as anyone's and better than most, I daresay. Their authority to build those vehicles was never limited in time and I guess in a sense the new Mark II cars that Lee builds are the "most authentic". Granted, Holman is not the same company that it was, but the continuity in the family should count for something. And he has kept to the letter of the originals. That may be one reason why they cost so much; he has chosen to reproduce some very expensive and rare bits instead of using modern equivalents.
The work on my car continues. We hope to have it "on its' feet" within the next few months, maybe sooner. No matter where you are on this planet, the day it finally moves under its' own power, you'll be able to hear the shouts of joy just by sticking your head out the window.
[ QUOTE ]
(See #1, below) My understanding is that when Mark V cars come on the market they typically trade in the 175K and up range, possibly up as high as 250K depending on how they are equipped. There were some aluminum tub cars which I suppose would be worth more since they are rarer. None of these vehicles have race history and they are not sixties-era artifacts so it makes sense that they would cost far less. I cannot imagine that any authentic sixties GT40 would sell for less than half to three-quarters of a million dollars. There is a restorable nonrunning car that I believe the owner has declined 650K for.
(See #2 and #3, below) Jim is correct that the Mark II cars were built by H&M, which I think is the reason they won a lot of races. Their car preparation was as good as anyone's and better than most, I daresay. Their authority to build those vehicles was never limited in time and I guess in a sense the new Mark II cars that Lee builds are the "most authentic". Granted, Holman is not the same company that it was, but the continuity in the family should count for something. And he has kept to the letter of the originals. That may be one reason why they cost so much; he has chosen to reproduce some very expensive and rare bits instead of using modern equivalents.
[/ QUOTE ]
My $0.02, as a close follower of the GT40 market for over 30 years and the owner of an original Mk I for almost 26 years: (1) For whatever reasons, the "market" simply has not placed any value on the Mk V GT40s beyond perhaps a small increment over a very good replica such as an ERA. While Ronnie Spain and others call the Mk Vs authentic GT40s, they have never had a value anywhere near original Mk Is. Within the past two years (and it may have been within the past one year), a Mk V could have been bought for under $150K, although perhaps that was a distress sale. With the recent sharp runup in prices of Mk Is, the values of Mk Vs might have gotten dragged along somewhat by that trend, but even if so, I would think that $200K should buy a Mk V from a motivated seller. Now PLEASE UNDERSTAND that I am not commenting on the quality of the Mk V or anyone's statements about their authenticity or legitimacy as GT40s. My comments relate only to what I see from asking prices for Mk Vs over the years and the length of time they seem to sit unsold. And of course, there clearly is a surge going on now in the market. What might have been the "common wisdom" about Mk V prices in the past and their relationship to Mk Is may be changing too. (2) Regarding Mk IIs, I have never understood the basis for statements, such as those from distinguished GT40s.com contributor J-6/Jim, that Holman-Moody built the Mk IIs. My recollection of Ronnie Spain's book, Legate's, etc. (I am on travel and do not have access to these books at the moment to look for actual text) is that FAV shipped Mk IIs to both H-M and Shelby for completion, and to Alam Mann as well (the three "XGT"-numbered cars). If this is true, how can H-M have been the "manufacturer" of the Mk IIs? Did H-M assemble the Mk II tubs from Abbey Panel pressings, or build Mk II tubs from scratch? If H-M received completed tubs from FAV, I don't see how H-M is the manufacturer. Please understand that I am not being sarcastic or critical of the fine work that H-M did on the Mk IIs and Mk IVs. I just don't understand how H-M was the manufacturer of the Mk IIs, and would truly appreciate some substantiation. (3) Putting aside who the "manufacturer" was, Mk IIs were campaigned by SAI (Shelby), H-M, and Alan Mann. I believe that the only Mk IIs that ever won a race were the Shelby cars: 1966 Sebring, with the one-off 427 roadster chassis #110 that I guess could be called a Mk II; 1966 Daytona (the chassis number just won't bubble up out of my brain, but maybe it was 1015 or 1016), and 1966 Le Mans with #1046. In 1967, Ford France wound up with #1031, I think, and might have won a European race or two with it, but just as with the Mk Is (which I don't think even finished a race until Shelby took over campaigning them from FAV in 1965), and the Mk IVs in 1967, it was only Shelby and his supremely talented band of brothers at SAI that got first place finishes in the international races for any Ford factory-sponsored GT40 during the three years of intense head-to-head competition between Ford and Ferrari, 1965 through 1967. FAV and Gulf teamed up to produce many wins for the Mk I in the magical years 1968 and 1969, but this was after Ford had bowed out.
(See #1, below) My understanding is that when Mark V cars come on the market they typically trade in the 175K and up range, possibly up as high as 250K depending on how they are equipped. There were some aluminum tub cars which I suppose would be worth more since they are rarer. None of these vehicles have race history and they are not sixties-era artifacts so it makes sense that they would cost far less. I cannot imagine that any authentic sixties GT40 would sell for less than half to three-quarters of a million dollars. There is a restorable nonrunning car that I believe the owner has declined 650K for.
(See #2 and #3, below) Jim is correct that the Mark II cars were built by H&M, which I think is the reason they won a lot of races. Their car preparation was as good as anyone's and better than most, I daresay. Their authority to build those vehicles was never limited in time and I guess in a sense the new Mark II cars that Lee builds are the "most authentic". Granted, Holman is not the same company that it was, but the continuity in the family should count for something. And he has kept to the letter of the originals. That may be one reason why they cost so much; he has chosen to reproduce some very expensive and rare bits instead of using modern equivalents.
[/ QUOTE ]
My $0.02, as a close follower of the GT40 market for over 30 years and the owner of an original Mk I for almost 26 years: (1) For whatever reasons, the "market" simply has not placed any value on the Mk V GT40s beyond perhaps a small increment over a very good replica such as an ERA. While Ronnie Spain and others call the Mk Vs authentic GT40s, they have never had a value anywhere near original Mk Is. Within the past two years (and it may have been within the past one year), a Mk V could have been bought for under $150K, although perhaps that was a distress sale. With the recent sharp runup in prices of Mk Is, the values of Mk Vs might have gotten dragged along somewhat by that trend, but even if so, I would think that $200K should buy a Mk V from a motivated seller. Now PLEASE UNDERSTAND that I am not commenting on the quality of the Mk V or anyone's statements about their authenticity or legitimacy as GT40s. My comments relate only to what I see from asking prices for Mk Vs over the years and the length of time they seem to sit unsold. And of course, there clearly is a surge going on now in the market. What might have been the "common wisdom" about Mk V prices in the past and their relationship to Mk Is may be changing too. (2) Regarding Mk IIs, I have never understood the basis for statements, such as those from distinguished GT40s.com contributor J-6/Jim, that Holman-Moody built the Mk IIs. My recollection of Ronnie Spain's book, Legate's, etc. (I am on travel and do not have access to these books at the moment to look for actual text) is that FAV shipped Mk IIs to both H-M and Shelby for completion, and to Alam Mann as well (the three "XGT"-numbered cars). If this is true, how can H-M have been the "manufacturer" of the Mk IIs? Did H-M assemble the Mk II tubs from Abbey Panel pressings, or build Mk II tubs from scratch? If H-M received completed tubs from FAV, I don't see how H-M is the manufacturer. Please understand that I am not being sarcastic or critical of the fine work that H-M did on the Mk IIs and Mk IVs. I just don't understand how H-M was the manufacturer of the Mk IIs, and would truly appreciate some substantiation. (3) Putting aside who the "manufacturer" was, Mk IIs were campaigned by SAI (Shelby), H-M, and Alan Mann. I believe that the only Mk IIs that ever won a race were the Shelby cars: 1966 Sebring, with the one-off 427 roadster chassis #110 that I guess could be called a Mk II; 1966 Daytona (the chassis number just won't bubble up out of my brain, but maybe it was 1015 or 1016), and 1966 Le Mans with #1046. In 1967, Ford France wound up with #1031, I think, and might have won a European race or two with it, but just as with the Mk Is (which I don't think even finished a race until Shelby took over campaigning them from FAV in 1965), and the Mk IVs in 1967, it was only Shelby and his supremely talented band of brothers at SAI that got first place finishes in the international races for any Ford factory-sponsored GT40 during the three years of intense head-to-head competition between Ford and Ferrari, 1965 through 1967. FAV and Gulf teamed up to produce many wins for the Mk I in the magical years 1968 and 1969, but this was after Ford had bowed out.
Re: Shelby/Holman and Moody. I agree with much of your assesment and description of how various cars were built. BTW J6 was prepared by Shelby but was built by Kar Kraft and has a Ford Chassis plate. I'm going by the MK II Chassis plates. The only MK II's I've seen have Holman and Moody Chassis plates. Are there MII's that don't?
Re: Mark V's I also agree with that.
Re: Mark V's I also agree with that.
Oh, yes, the Mk IVs were indeed built by Kar Kraft and then shipped to Shelby and H-M. My slip up in not remembering that. Regarding what the chassis plates actually say on the Mk IIs, I don't have a clue. I know a couple of owners of Mk IIs and techs who maintained some originals. Perhaps they could provide some info. I might chat up Mike Teske as well. He's only about 25 miles from me here in Orlando and has a treasure trove of information on the Mk IIs. BTW, Jim G, I presume you have seen "Cavallino" #145? It has a very nice article on Ferrari P4 #0856. It seems to have led a much less strenuous life than yours.
Gents
IMHO since FAV made the tubs, mounted the bodies, and assigned the chassis numbers...they are the "true" manufacturers. Of course lawyers can always spin matters
to whichever side they represent.
However as I recall A/C did 95 % of the assembly/paint work on the Cobras, and Shelby got the credit for manufacture since that's what it said on the plate. So what's legal
and what's fair are not always the same.
Regarding MK V values..unique/rare cars are worth
whatever the next guy is willing to pay for it.
You can run the same car across an auction block
at different times and get wildly different results,
the highest price may not represent what the next guy
is willing to pay...sometimes buyers are irrational.
MikeD
IMHO since FAV made the tubs, mounted the bodies, and assigned the chassis numbers...they are the "true" manufacturers. Of course lawyers can always spin matters
to whichever side they represent.
However as I recall A/C did 95 % of the assembly/paint work on the Cobras, and Shelby got the credit for manufacture since that's what it said on the plate. So what's legal
and what's fair are not always the same.
Regarding MK V values..unique/rare cars are worth
whatever the next guy is willing to pay for it.
You can run the same car across an auction block
at different times and get wildly different results,
the highest price may not represent what the next guy
is willing to pay...sometimes buyers are irrational.
MikeD
Do a thorough search on this site as I can recall at least two threads on this subject in the last year - I think there was a car in Holland that was discussed and maybe some other too - my recollection is similar to the above at about EUR / USD 200 000 - good luck & enjoy
Try a search on 'Safir' as subject
Try a search on 'Safir' as subject
You may wish to check on the car that is for sale in the UK - www.maxted-page.com, I have seen this car and it is very well prepared. I have also inspected a MkV here in Japan which is in excellent show quality trim and the guy wants US$400,000 for it. So, a car is only worth what ever the percieved value to that buyer, and there was no way I was going to pay US$400,000 for a MkV. On the other hand I have paid considerably more for the car I actually bought #1080 because of it's originality, history, and quality restortaion. So the real answer to your question is what do you think it is worth?
Ron Earp
Admin
I'm not really one to engage in the "value" discussions since I belong to the group of "its a car, drive it and enjoy it" crowd and the history is somewhat of a non-issue for me.
But, I definitely wouldn't buy a Safir for an investment. I'd agree with Jim on this one, no different from a well done replica and I'd be willing to bet that 50 years, or even 10 years, time will hold that to be very true. I'd imagine the only cars that hold value and go up will be the ones with a race history or that are very well documented. Documentation is the key for any of these cars and in this respect it would appear the Safir cars will suffer. If they enjoy a price premium over a nicely done replica now I don't think this will hold true in years to come. Of course, all IMHO, which as some gentleman said on another thread means "is a preface for useless comment".
Ron
But, I definitely wouldn't buy a Safir for an investment. I'd agree with Jim on this one, no different from a well done replica and I'd be willing to bet that 50 years, or even 10 years, time will hold that to be very true. I'd imagine the only cars that hold value and go up will be the ones with a race history or that are very well documented. Documentation is the key for any of these cars and in this respect it would appear the Safir cars will suffer. If they enjoy a price premium over a nicely done replica now I don't think this will hold true in years to come. Of course, all IMHO, which as some gentleman said on another thread means "is a preface for useless comment".
Ron
Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
I am surprised, frankly, at asking prices in the 400K range for Mark V cars. Not that I think the quality is inferior to any other car- they are among the best built of all GT40s- but in cars of this type history and authenticity trump all else. While in my eyes their lineage is legitimate, they are not period race cars any more than an ERA is, frankly. It would be nice to own a car worth 400 kilobucks, but I'm not holding my breath.
Now, I do think they may be among the best driving GT40s- but again, I'm not aware of a direct head-to-head comparison. THAT would be an enjoyable event to attend or participate in. Even if no firm conclusions were reached, it would be a lot of good fun trying to get there.
Now, I do think they may be among the best driving GT40s- but again, I'm not aware of a direct head-to-head comparison. THAT would be an enjoyable event to attend or participate in. Even if no firm conclusions were reached, it would be a lot of good fun trying to get there.