US -vs- ROW allotment ?

Clearly the production numbers are still not fixed in stone on the GT. 1000 in CY2004? 1500 in CY2004? 1500 in CY2005? 2000 in CY2005? No production after 12/31/05? No production after 12/31/06? etc. etc. etc.

But I haven't heard any rumors or data about distribution outside the United States.

For comparison, Ferrari sends North America (not just the US) on the order of 30% of production (25% to 33% depending upon the model). on the 8 cylinder line (the 360) Ferrari produces just under 2,500 cars per year. Approximately 800 come to North America per year. Unless you want a 360 Spider, which are sold out for the rest of production, you can get a 360 in six months or so. The backup isn't that crazy right now.

Also, Gallardos are currently selling at MSRP highest. Two went through Manheim Auction last week and didn't sell at sub-MSRP numbers.

This suggests to me that trying to sell anything like 1,000 to 1,500 of these per year into this market is going to be suicidal. There just aren't enough stupid people (like us) to buy them.

So the only logical conclusion would be, like Ferrari and Lamborchini, to sell hard globally. But I haven't seen anything about this.

Anybody have any data?

Doody.

 

[Jos]

I'm still waiting to hear if I'm one of the lucky Euro car recipients - total of 101 cars promised to Europe

 

101 cars? where's that number from? is that 101 cars for all of europe? or all of the EU or ?????

is that 101 of the 3500 (or so)? that's an insanely small percentage.

if they're only going to push 25% of production overseas, $140K is possibly going to look like a pipe dream, never mind these stupid $300K numbers.

can you share any more details?

thanks,
doody.

 

It'll be a limited total run, and, they'll all sell.

 

[Brett James-McCall]

Mr Doody I beleive that 101 came from the number of original road cars made? but I could be wrong

Bret

 

I'm guessing Ford knows all these answers already, but aren't telling.

 

[Jos]

'total of 101 cars promised to Europe'

That is from emails received by me from the European Ford GT Office as well as their European press releases

They claim it is a tribute to the original production quantity in the sixties

 

[Mike Dozier]

Mr. Doody (related to Howdy?)

No offense, but most of us on this Forum think the GT
is going to outsell the "F" bigtime in the US.
Yep...they will easily sell out every one for years to come.
Check back with us in a year or two to apologize...

MikeD

 

MikeDD - my apologies if i said something for which i owe an apology - i didn't think i had.

i'm #1 on my dealer's list, so they're down to only having to move 2,999 to 3,449 already /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

doody.

ps: no relation /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Mike Dozier]

You "insinuated" that Ford will not sell out the GT...
you scoundrel...that deserves an apology, after you have
seen the error of your ways.

MikeD /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

geez, nobody's ever called me a scoundrel before! i feel dirty /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

i seriously question whether they can sell that many units in the united states. that's a lot of $150K two-seater sports cars to move in the US.

worldwide, i think they could move 5K to 8K (total guess; see my thread re: "LIMITED PRODUCTION ???").

maybe they could sell 1,000 per year in the US for five or six years, but my understanding is they're trying to put something like 200 units per month into the US market for about 18 months and then shutting the spigot off. that's more $150K two-seater sports cars to sell in the US market per month than Ferrari can sell 360s in the entire world per month (just for comparison).

obviously we here have drunk the kool-aid on the GT (my cup runneth over!), but i think that realistically it's an uphill battle for ford to move that many cars in the US. just one man's opinion. worth well less than you paid for it, for sure /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

and the other thing that could hurt them are these entertaining dealers who are trying to get $300K and up for the early cars. and ford (based on the GT FAQ on their site) is permitting that behavior. this could really turn off a lot of existing stupid-car owners "geez, if i want to get bent over a barrel i can just go buy another ferrari - at least i'm fully informed about the size of the telephone pole and how much lube they'll use".

doody.

ps: here are the dodge viper unit numbers for 1999-2002. similar engine power output. under $90K MSRP fully-optioned.

1999 / 1,730 produced
2000 / 1,470 sold (1,640 produced)
2001 / 1,388 sold
2002 / 1,511 sold

 

[Ron Earp]

I think one thing you are not considering is for many people Ford building a GT is very special. A link to the past. The Viper does not have that. Ferrari has that, but not in the same way. Ford is domestic and that appeals to a lot of folks who otherwise wouldn't consider foregin marquees. This people are frequent Viper and Corvette consumers. I think there will be plenty of buyers.

 

[Howard Jones]

I would love to know what dodge is thinking about projected viper production in the 04,05,06 and 07 years. And I wonder if Chev is thinking about Corvette sales in those years also. There will be some impact on both but I am thinking that the viper sales will be effected the most. Hmmmmm cheep vipers?

 

[Mike Dozier]

Howard

You want a "cheap" Viper? Check out E-bay...
You have your choice from $ 30k on up.

Vipers have been around so long (10+ years!) that
I think they've developed their own following.
I still see Dodge selling over 1,000 /year...
just a matter of when Chrysler decides to pull the plug...
which could be a while if sales stay solid.

As Ron says, the GT has the advantage of a lot of pent up
Ford fan base and "oldies" fan base. I see them selling
out for several years...but the scalping should die off
fairly soon....maybe in the second year of production.

MikeD

 

[ QUOTE ]
These people are frequent Viper and Corvette consumers. I think there will be plenty of buyers.

[/ QUOTE ]

True dat! I've owned 4 Corvettes, currently own 2 Corvettes. I'll be selling my 01 Corvette when I buy the GT.

 

[Jim Rosenthal]

Ford will sell every GT they make. The worldwide market can easily absorb a few thousand of these cars over a span of a few years. They can always modify their sales plan if it looks like a hot seller over in UK or Europe. Hell, they could probably sell them all in the Middle East if they wanted.
I agree with Ron- there are quite a few people who will buy this car who would not buy a Ferrari or a Porsche or a Lambo. They will buy it BECAUSE it's a Ford, not IN SPITE of it being a Ford.
I didn't see anything anyone should apologize for...did I miss something? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

okay, now we're gettin' somewhere /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]
for many people Ford building a GT is very special. A link to the past.

the GT has the advantage of a lot of pent up Ford fan base and "oldies" fan base.

[/ QUOTE ]

violent agreement with you guys. there's a tremendously cool history here to be leveraged by Ford and i think they're doing a stellar job of it.

[ QUOTE ]
The worldwide market can easily absorb a few thousand of these cars over a span of a few years.

[/ QUOTE ]

violent agreement. the unanswered question is whether or not Ford is really intending to sell these cars outside the US (based on the reports i culled those Viper numbers from, i believe the Viper is not generally sold outside the US, for comparison). and if not, can the US market absorb the sort of volume numbers being bandied about.

[ QUOTE ]
They can always modify their sales plan if it looks like a hot seller over in UK or Europe. Hell, they could probably sell them all in the Middle East if they wanted.

[/ QUOTE ]

absolutely. but will they up production or shift production away from US? i'm very concerned that what is stated to be a limited production vehicle won't be, and us early buyers (even at MSRP) will get hit pretty hard.

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with Ron- there are quite a few people who will buy this car who would not buy a Ferrari or a Porsche or a Lambo. They will buy it BECAUSE it's a Ford, not IN SPITE of it being a Ford.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is an interesting perspective. here's my economics question for you guys then.

i assert that the $125K+ car market is fairly saturated in the US. you can buy 996TTs, Gallardos, GT-2s, 456s, Maranellos, and even Murcies "off the lot" out of "dealer stock". there's not 1000 of them on dealer lots across the country, but with minimal effort with your telephone, you can find a few new examples of each of those, ready to drive away, below MSRP.

i further assert that there are a limited number of folks in the US who are capable of and willing to consider buying $150K cars.

by my maths, based on the data we have thus far re: distribution volumes, Ford is going to try to push into the US market each month on the order of the number of Gallardos, Murcies, GT-2s, GT-3s, 456s, Maranellos, and 360s that get pushed into the US market each month combined. COMBINED.

there are only two types of buyers of Ford GTs. either you already or previously or regularly own six-figure cars ("seasoned" buyer) or you're totally new to this (a "newbie" buyer).

a "seasoned" buyer will either be adding to their stable or trading a similar car or re-entering the market. these guys contribute to the sales of six figure cars and are part of the existing sales maths/volumes. they own the aforementioned six-figure vehicles. et. al.

a "newbie" buyer is, effectively, coming out of the woodwork to buy a $150K car for the first time. maybe they're previously buyers/owners in the $75K-$100K segment (p-cars, vipers, etc.) moving up; and for whatever reason they never previously moved up to the other offerings in this segment.

i've drunk the GT kool-aid (already have my order spec'd!), and i have a hard time rectifying these facts/assertions against the "they'll sell every one they can make" sort of thinking. $150K car buyers don't just materialize out of thin air - regardless of what President Bush wishes to believe about how the economy works! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

why do you guys believe that Ford can move 200 cars a month in the US market? obviously the first few months are a no-brainer.

heritage will get some people off their butts, but certainly companies with far longer racing heritage resumes than Ford (Mercedes, Ferrari, BMW, Porsche, etc.) ALL have many many more ADMIRERS than BUYERS, right? we all had pictures and posters and models as kids, right? that doesn't mean everybody who is a fan can afford to buy. i certainly appreciate McLaren's racing heritage, but i can't afford the last remaining new F1 that's for sale (1M pounds; it's been on the market since november with no buyer yet).

where are these buyers going to come from? what's the economic argument for them being able to move so many more cars than the other players (combined)? the only rational argument i can come up with so far is that guys will trade in two or three of their cars against a GT (say, their Viper and 911). but that doesn't seem like it'll make up the gap in my mind.

doody!

 

[Ron Earp]

[ QUOTE ]

there are only two types of buyers of Ford GTs. either you already or previously or regularly own six-figure cars ("seasoned" buyer) or you're totally new to this (a "newbie" buyer).

a "seasoned" buyer will either be adding to their stable or trading a similar car or re-entering the market. these guys contribute to the sales of six figure cars and are part of the existing sales maths/volumes. they own the aforementioned six-figure vehicles. et. al.


[/ QUOTE ]

I don't agree. You've missed one or more groups here. One is the Muscle Car collector that trades and buys restored and resto-mod American Iron that can easily hit 6 figures. They don't want Italy's latest and don't care. But they care about an American icon being revived. They are not represented in the figures already because they don't own these types of cars - but they might want to now with Ford building one. Others are similar - the Rod group, etc.

Heck, if they'd have built it closer to the GT40 and kept the weight way down (lob off 1000 lbs) they'd have a lot of potential buyers here. But for many of us the car is too far from the GT40 for us to consider.

 

MORE FORD GT'S FOR EUROPE AS ORDER BOOKS CLOSE

BRENTWOOD, 26 November, 2003 – A total of 101 new Ford GTs will be officially imported to Europe from 2004, a reflection of the massive interest the car has generated amongst enthusiasts in the UK and Europe.

This number is the same as the original volume of Ford GTs officially produced by Ford in Europe through the lifetime of the original model.

European customers wanting to register their interest in purchasing a new Ford GT have been able to do so via a dedicated website, www.FordTeamRS.com. To date, 2,150 customers have registered online or approached Ford directly to purchase.

This opportunity closed on November 21 and customers already registered will now be sent an application form to take the next step towards purchase. Up to December 7, anybody who has not registered will be able to access the application form on www.FordTeamRS.com.

Only a lucky few of those registered to buy a Ford GT will be able to do so. They will be individually identified via carefully considered criteria, intended to match the most deserving and appropriate buyers with this iconic car. The President and COO of Ford of Europe, Lewis Booth, and his most senior executives will approve the final selection.

Individually approved dealers will act as the official import agents for Ford GT in three European countries. Capital Ford, Edgware Road, London will be the UK's lead Ford GT dealer, with further arrangements planned to allow customers to nominate a local dealer for delivery of the car.

UK and European prices of the left-hand-drive only, 500bhp Ford GT will be announced closer to its official import in 2004. In the US, a price of under $150,000 has been indicated, but a premium is expected in Europe to cover additional shipment and homologation costs.

The first customer Ford GT – car number 10 – was auctioned for charity at the 2003 Pebble Beach Concours d’Elegance in California on August 17 and realised US$557,500 (£326,788), exceeding all Ford's expectations.

http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=16958

 

ron - i agree, i had not thought of that constituency. let's hope that group is large enough to make up the difference.

doody.