While you were busy whining about politics...

[Jim Craik]

Jimbo,

I agree 100%, I actually like and respect Veek very much, and I think deep down he knows that. I would be proud to buy Veek a beer anytime. If he comes out for the Monterey Historics, I would be happy to offer my home as a place to stay.

Additionally, I very much respect and thank him for his sevice.

That said, often our disagreements come about via his trying to defend Mr Fechters odd views.

I seriously doubt that his rant about draftees, came from anywhere but an attempt to prop up Mr Fechters reputation.

That is not a bad human trait in most instances. But then trying to help the reputation of this guy is a waste of time and has tarnished Veeks short term credibility.

 

[Pat]

This is data from the Viet Nam war

Veek, you said this about draftees:

Calling the latter "Dregs" would do a disservice to regular dregs anywhere./QUOTE]

DREGS MY ASS!!!!!!

I think you two should go to some Viet Nam Veterens reunions and tell them just what you think of them!

Jim, please carefully re-read my posts in their entirety. Then calm down and rethink your response.

Ian, most ammunition isn't actually shot at a single person as you would think a sniper shot would be. Watch the HBO series "Band of Brothers" and you'll notice what they refer to as "covering fire". In contact, units move in combat using standard fire and manuever tactics which has one platoon, section, squad etc. lay down a base of heavy fire to keep the bad guy's heads down while the manuever squad goes to it's new position. You do something similiar with artillery to prep the area where a unit is going to cover their flanks from possible attack. You can also use it to confuse your intent, (prep one area and hit another). If you are engaging multiple hard targets (tanks etc.), you really want as much steel flying their way as possible. Ammunition is cheap compared to soldiers lives.

By the way, I agree that the war in Afghanistan is unwinable in realistic terms, I think I've posted to that effect before. Read "On Strategy: A Critical Analysis of the Vietnam War" by Harry Summers. It's an excellent summary as to why we lost that one. We are making the exact same mistakes in Afghanistan. (Corrupt allied (Afghan) government, failure to seal the borders, external support for the insurgency, reactive vs proactive strategy, a foe commited to a multigenerational conflict etc.)

 

[Rick Muck- Mark IV]

Jim and Jim (and all)

Once more I will remind all that "lonesomeBob" exists here only to stir and inflame.
He has no interest in GT40s, the community here or other positive contributions. I believe that because we allow an "open" forum like the Paddock, he visits to toss a few grenades and then sit and watch the explosion.

I also thank those who served. Veek is an example of the best of our country, someone who went without choice and then stayed thirty years. It is sad that rare cases like the Afgan meltdown or Lt. Calley in VN become the primary memory for many around the world rather than those who went to jhonorably do a distasteful, horrid job for us and bear the scars and memories for the rest of their lives.

The ONLY lottery I was ever lucky in was the draft, number 319 was not required to attend the unpleasentness in Southeast Asia. I don't truly know what I would have done, but my best guess/rememberance is to try the Coasties or the Air Force before my physical would be required.

My understanding of the draftee casualty rate is also tied to draftee vs. enlistment training choices. A friend was drafted and sent to a radio/communications school. Upon gradution three of his one hundred classmates were given postings as radio guys, the balance of the class was made into Huey door gunners! Oh, yeah! hanging out of a helo in a harness.....no NVA or Cong thought THAT wasn't an attractive target!

 

[Bob Fechter]

If that's true, why did I join just shy of seven years ago, and have visited this site on a regular basis during that time?

Jim and Jim (and all)

Once more I will remind all that "lonesomeBob" exists here only to stir and inflame.
He has no interest in GT40s, the community here or other positive contributions. I believe that because we allow an "open" forum like the Paddock, he visits to toss a few grenades and then sit and watch the explosion.

 

[craig]

Not sure who you guys hate more Limbaugh Fox or Bob....but its evident you want all three banned...:lipsrsealed:

 

[Doug S.]

Jim and Jim (and all)

Once more I will remind all that "lonesomeBob" exists here only to stir and inflame.

He has no interest in GT40s, the community here or other positive contributions. I believe that because we allow an "open" forum like the Paddock, he visits to toss a few grenades and then sit and watch the explosion.

Agreed, wholeheartedly, Rick!

That's the reason I have him on "ignore" and have been encouraging others to do the same in my posts.

Others are equally offensive, although not quite so blatant in their efforts to disrupt the normally congenial banter on the political topics. Two or three of LB's other partners-in-crime are "ignored", too.

It works for me....might work for you if you'd try it!

Cheers!

Doug

 

[Jim Craik]

Not sure who you guys hate more Limbaugh Fox or Bob....but its evident you want all three banned...:lipsrsealed:

Let's see, they are all obnoxious liers...........what's not to like?

 

[Bob Fechter]

Ever notice how Al Qaeda-like liberals get when they're angry?

Hey Bob, you're a fucking asshole. (snip)

Bob, do us all a favor. Get in your GT40, if you even have one, fill up the tanks, and wrap yourself around a tree and silence yourself. You'll make a lot of folks happy and you can be with your buddy Breitbart. Have fun. You ungrateful son of a bitch.

 

[craig]

Yes Bob I would say Jimbo crossed the line on that stupid death wish statement, but you're the one they constantly attack for your shocking dialog....pffff!!

 

[Bob Fechter]

Yeah Craig, its only OK to use that language and sentiments if you're a liberal because you are better educated and feel deeper for the subjugated 99% victims of capitalism.

I'm learning!

Yes Bob I would say Jimbo crossed the line on that stupid death wish statement, but you're the one they constantly attack for your shocking dialog....pffff!!

 

[Jim Craik]

Craig, Veek, MHNCO and the other brave consevatives here on our fourm,

Do you agree with Mr Fechter when he said about the 17,725 young Americans who were drafted and then died in Viet Nam: Do you think these brave Ameicans were the "Dregs"?

I notice that not one consevative here on our fourm has called him on this CRAP!!!!

Not one.....................Why Not!!!!!!

Craig................
Veek................
MHNCO.............

I see you defending this obnoctious lier, do you acually agree?

 

[Jim Rosenthal]

Oh,. I apologized for that one. And I don't really want Bob dead from the neck down (he's already dead from the neck up as we can all tell) He's providing entertainment to lots of folks here.

The really funny thing about this whole situation with Bob is that even the most liberal members of this forum are pretty much in the middle of the political spectrum AFAIK. Like me- a bunch of hot rods, a boat, and a motorcycle? Not much of a liberal. I have some liberal political views, I do, but you should hear me about Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.... I don't sound very liberal when I get started on them, believe me....I don't think we have a lot of liberals out here. I think what we have here is some conservatives, some moderates. and Bob. Bob is a patriot. You know what a patriot is, don't you..............(wait for it)











A patriot is someone who loves his country, but hates 99% of the people in it. Hiya, Bob.

 

[Bob Fechter]

Still stuck on the 99% DNC talking point are you? You're a deep thinker there Jimbo!

It's nice to see the kinder, gentler Jimbo, but it doesn't take much for the hater to emerge. You're on probation, LOL.

 

[Jim Craik]

Jimbo,

What you say is true. I have always considered myself as middle of the road politicaly, I did vote for Reagan the first time. I was a registered Republican unit I saw what they did to the country during the Clinton administration. I still feel the Republican party left me.

My best friend and business partner for over 40 years thinks I'm consevative, and compared to him I am.

Compared to most folkes here in Silicon Valley (mostly very smart, well educated, wealthy) I'm not considered liberal at all.

That gives you a pritty good idea how far outside society in general Mr Fechter and the appoligists really are.

To them less than radical far right makes you a liberal, and being a liberal makes you a Communist, Socalist, Natzi!

I still can not understand why the average Consevatives here on this fourm, and I know you are out there.................have not condemned this very divisive style of hate talk.

There is no doubt that the American people can see this and the comming election will but them in their place!

 

[Ian K]

I'd like to point out that there are plenty of "dregs" who willingly enlist and "bitched the whole time they were in service, undermined their commanders and spread discontent amongst their fellow troops."

Ian

 

[Jeff Young]

This is very true. Think about it. Car forums, and in particular "high end" car forums tend to attract upper income, older white males -- basically the Republican demographic personified.

I'm in favor of gun rights, fiscal responbility (including small tax increases and cuts to defense and social programs), virulently a free trader, virulenty pro-free speech, virulently pro-4th Amendment, and so on. I also do favor a progressive tax system and think single payer heath care makes the most sense. At the same time I think cuts to Social Security and Medicare are necessary, and while I think unions have a right to organize don't see them doing much good in the country these days.

In the "real world" that makes me pretty middle of the road, and the odd thing is I would get a lot of lumps if I posted those beliefs on true "left wing" sites.

Things are skewed here. Need to remember that.

Oh,. I apologized for that one. And I don't really want Bob dead from the neck down (he's already dead from the neck up as we can all tell) He's providing entertainment to lots of folks here.

The really funny thing about this whole situation with Bob is that even the most liberal members of this forum are pretty much in the middle of the political spectrum AFAIK. Like me- a bunch of hot rods, a boat, and a motorcycle? Not much of a liberal. I have some liberal political views, I do, but you should hear me about Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.... I don't sound very liberal when I get started on them, believe me....I don't think we have a lot of liberals out here. I think what we have here is some conservatives, some moderates. and Bob. Bob is a patriot. You know what a patriot is, don't you..............(wait for it)











A patriot is someone who loves his country, but hates 99% of the people in it. Hiya, Bob.

 

[Jim Rosenthal]

I'm on probation with you, Bob? Hang on while I change my u-trou. I'm petrified. I'm shaking in my boots.

Ian, I agree. There seem to be a lot of folks who sign up for the military and then do a lousy job and get hoofed out. And not all of them are enlisted folks, either. A friend of mine is a Navy squadron commander who's kicking out one of his pilots (second lieutenant, I think) who got drunk and into a fight and ended up in the slammer for a week. And the Navy had a lot invested in her. She certainly wasn't drafted. (apparently she hit a cop, which wasn't a great idea, so maybe she shouldn't be flying Navy aircraft to begin with)

And Jeff's comments about the demographics here are spot-on. Very few women, mostly old white gearheads, as far as I can tell. And no one from the far left end of the spectrum- they tend to hate cars, gearheads, car hobbyists like us, etc. But we do have a few far-right crazies. Don't we.

Bob, we're going out for a few brews. Don't wait up.

 

[John Milmont]

I dont understand this video from a tactical standpoint. Why did they hang around for so long? They dont know where the enemy is and they are just shooting at nothing.

 

[Ian K]

Ian, I agree. There seem to be a lot of folks who sign up for the military and then do a lousy job and get hoofed out. And not all of them are enlisted folks, either. A friend of mine is a Navy squadron commander who's kicking out one of his pilots (second lieutenant, I think) who got drunk and into a fight and ended up in the slammer for a week. And the Navy had a lot invested in her. She certainly wasn't drafted. (apparently she hit a cop, which wasn't a great idea, so maybe she shouldn't be flying Navy aircraft to begin with)

In the early to mid '90s, I lived in Mission Beach down here in San Diego, half a block from the ocean. I socialized with about a dozen Navy sailors who voluntarily signed up. Over the four year period that I lived there, only two of them remained in the Navy, the rest either honorably or dishonorably discharged, and even the honorable discharges were booted out due to their not wanting to be in the Navy anymore and getting themselves kicked out. One guy jumped from a second story window down to the cement below just so he could break a leg and avoid deployment. Another struck an officer, was tossed into the brig, and then given his release. He ran down the deck of the ship, jumping for joy and singing. A third successfully dodged his pee test for a few months until he was cornered during ship duty and failed. Basically, of the ten that were given the boot, all of them wanted out and hated being in.

Ian

 

[Jeff Young]

But we do have a few far-right crazies. Don't we.

Patriots Jim, Patriots!

I love this Matt Tiabbi quote about guys like Lonesome:



The individuals in the Tea Party may come from very different walks of life, but most of them have a few things in common. After nearly a year of talking with Tea Party members from Nevada to New Jersey, I can count on one hand the key elements I expect to hear in nearly every interview. One: Every single one of them was that exceptional Republican who did protest the spending in the Bush years, and not one of them is the hypocrite who only took to the streets when a black Democratic president launched an emergency stimulus program. ("Not me — I was protesting!" is a common exclamation.) Two: Each and every one of them is the only person in America who has ever read the Constitution or watched Schoolhouse Rock. (Here they have guidance from Armey, who explains that the problem with "people who do not cherish America the way we do" is that "they did not read the Federalist Papers.") Three: They are all furious at the implication that race is a factor in their political views — despite the fact that they blame the financial crisis on poor black homeowners, spend months on end engrossed by reports about how the New Black Panthers want to kill "cracker babies," support politicians who think the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was an overreach of government power, tried to enact South African-style immigration laws in Arizona and obsess over Charlie Rangel, ACORN and Barack Obama's birth certificate. Four: In fact, some of their best friends are black! (Reporters in Kentucky invented a game called "White Male Liberty Patriot Bingo," checking off a box every time a Tea Partier mentions a black friend.) And five: Everyone who disagrees with them is a radical leftist who hates America.

It would be inaccurate to say the Tea Partiers are racists. What they are, in truth, are narcissists. They're completely blind to how offensive the very nature of their rhetoric is to the rest of the country. I'm an ordinary middle-aged guy who pays taxes and lives in the suburbs with his wife and dog — and I'm a radical communist? I don't love my country? I'm a redcoat? Fuck you! These are the kinds of thoughts that go through your head as you listen to Tea Partiers expound at awesome length upon their cultural victimhood, surrounded as they are by America-haters like you and me or, in the case of foreign-born president Barack Obama, people who are literally not Americans in the way they are.