Im looking for a gt 40 kit

[Nic]

Hello guys and girls.
Ive been looking around for a gt40 kit for a while now and im in the process of deciding which kit i should buy. It seems all the manufacturers are boasting about having the best kit around and im getting lost in the parts that are included in each kit and who includes the best and most parts etc. With my Budget i recon its down to 4-5 manufacturers ,Tornado, RF, MDA, RCR. I would apreciate some input in the matter
Best regards

[Ron Earp]

Maybe I should post this before it turns into a free for all. Remember that "Agreement" you clicked "I Agree" to when you signed on? This was part of it:
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• Please, use the forum as an information source and use the search feature before posting a question. And think about your question. I’m sure you want to know which GT40 to purchase or which one is the best. But face it – they are all represented here and everyone likes to think they made the best choice so how many answers do you think you’ll get? Do your research and the best GT40 FOR YOU will become clear. And if you can’t figure it out then ask me, the best GT40 is MINE.
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Seriously, that question can be touchy around here! But, game open now, play ball!

[Nic]

Ahh your right , dont want to start an open argument on whos stash is better .. Well, the frame and suspension are the parts that i am most curious about. I see that the Gt40 frames are all simillar, are they all copies of one original frame? And are the suspension and brake parts all that different between my 4 chosen manufacturers.
Best regards

[Mark Worthington]

There are two types of chassis: monocoque and space frame. The original GT40s had a mopnocoque chassis, and of the manufacturers you listed, only RCR has announced a monocoque, although I believe RF is working on one. Regarding the "frames" you describe, while space frames may look similar at first glance they are significantly different in design and construction.

I will give you my opinion on whose space frame is best. I may upset some people in doing so, but this forum is all about candid exchange of information and opinions. Full disclosure: I am building an RF space frame.

Here is how I would rate the space frames of the manufacturers you have listed: RF &gt; RCR &gt; &gt; MDA &gt; Tornado. I am not certain about the exact order of these, but I am certain that the first is better than the last two. Let's start with the RF. It was designed by John Shepherd, a highly regarded Australian chasis engineer who I believe worked with Carroll Smith and who was heavily involved in racecar design and engineering. If you examine the RF chassis you'll note lots of triangulation of chassis rails to pick up suspension loads and use of larger rails only where needed. RF has published some very impressive torsional rigidity numbers that indicate their chassis is very strong. The RFs typically are lighter than other replicas. I would wager that if you were to model the various available space-frame chassis using finite-element software you would find the RF to be superior.

I have not inspected Fran Hall's RCR chassis yet, but based on Fran's reputation alone, as well as a few pictures, I imagine that it is very well done. I would love to see Fran post some torsional rigidity numbers for his chassis.

I have not yet seen an MDA chassis but I have looked at pictures in some detail. The MDA is a derivative of the GTD, which, after modification, has been race proven in the UK. Like the GTD chassis, the MDA chassis looks to me to use heavier frame rails rather than the RF. There was a recent thread with some discussion about the MDA's surprising lack of a chassis transverse member in the engine area, and speculation that the rear-suspension loads in this area of the chassis could cause this portion of the chassis to flex. The discussion was rather muted out of respect for MDA, but in my opinion it is a reflection of an inferior, even unsafe, chassis design.

I put Tornado at the bottom of the list for a couple reasons. First, the guys in the UK who race GT40s race GTDs, and not Tornados. I think that alone speaks volumes. In fairness, this may be a fluke or possibly due to other considerations of the Tornado car beyond the chassis. I do know that Robert Logan, owner of RF, built a Tornado as his first car. His frustration with the Tornado design was his inspiration for developing the RF. He went out and hired John Shepherd and remedied the Tornado's weaknesses.

There you have it. Mark Sibley and Andy Sheldon and some MDA and Tornado owners and builders probably won't be too happy with my opinion, but so be it. I would suggest that the best way for a manufacturer to prove the worth of his chassis would be to report the weight of the space frame, before sheeting, and the torsional rigidity.

[EDIT - I am now told that RCR will no longer offer space frames, only the monocoque chassis. His monocoque looks very nice, and may be lighter and stiffer than any space frame available. Again, I urge Fran to test and publish the torsional rigidity and weight numbers for his chassis.]

[VICTOR A]

I have been to Frans shop (RCR) many times and from what I have seen of his products I have been very impressed. One thing he has going for him is the racing people and engineers he works with every day, so I believe there is very little guess work in his product. For example look at the welding on the Alum Chassis.

Vic [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[Nic]

Thanks Mark for a some great input , specialy about the torsional stiffness. I agree that the RCR monocoque is an exiting new frame

[Brett James-McCall]

[ QUOTE ]

Here is how I would rate the space frames of the manufacturers you have listed: RF &gt; RCR &gt; &gt; MDA &gt; Tornado.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mark,
Slightly unfair IMO, you have managed to miss Roy Smart, who is producing GTD chassis under licence; AutoFutura in South Africa and also Premier's (Allan V) forthcoming kit. I am also aware of other chassis's both spaceframe and monocoque under development in the UK, but its up to the respective parties to speak up.

Brett

[Malcolm]

Whereabouts in Norway? I have family in Dalselv near Mo-i-rana (I hope I spelt all that right!). A number of GTD chassis ended up next door to you in Sweden so don't discount GTD as Brett says.

Are you near the artic circle raceway? Great track and dirt cheap to hire cf Goodwood et al. I would love to get my GTD up to Norway as great place to drive about.

[Malcolm]

And Ron, How can the best GT40 be yours when you went and sold it?

[Mark Worthington]

[ QUOTE ]
Mark,
Slightly unfair IMO, you have managed to miss Roy Smart, who is producing GTD chassis under licence; AutoFutura in South Africa and also Premier's (Allan V) forthcoming kit. I am also aware of other chassis's both spaceframe and monocoque under development in the UK, but its up to the respective parties to speak up.
Brett

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough, Brett. I wasn't trying to exclude any manufacturers, rather, I was adressing the manufacturers specifically under Nic's consideration.

[Paul Thompson 'Hooligan']

Hi all

As Brett rightly states - Roy Smart continues to manufacture the GTD chassis (licenced), so it IS still possible to build a GTD although an 'off the shelf' kit is not available.

He is not overjoyed at the prospect of using pc's so I will post on his behalf.

An example of the Chassis he produces

[Paul Thompson 'Hooligan']

He produces all suspension and uprights too - mods available to order too...

[Chris Martino]

Vic-

You'll find many interesting theories on this forum, so I would recommend you speak to Mark Sibley directly about his MDA chassis, he can give you all of the FACTS (which he will address on this forum very soon) before you by into any of the verbal diareha on the MDA. (Opinions - always easy to stand behind when you have no facts).

Chris [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

[Mark Worthington]

Chris, you mis-spelled diarrhea. Your reply was a little harsh. I disclosed my relationship with RF - as a builder of one of their kits. What is your relationship with MDA?

I look forward to seeing MDA's torsional rigidity specifications.

[Ron Earp]

You ALWAYS need your Nomex when this topic comes up! Today seems a little hotter than typical, but we've seen much worse.

Good point Malcolm but no matter, I've another one coming and when it arrives, clearly by definition, it'll be the best since it'll be in my garage! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Nic, you won't go wrong with any of the cars you've listed, nor any of the ones others have listed. Talk to the owners of the businesses, see which ones you like, then visit them. If you can't visit them visit an owner. Then make a decision. No, this is not a PC answer, I firmly believe tha he'll get a good car from any of the listed companies.

[Mike Dozier]

Two other issues to consider are the planned usage of the car and the individual's building skills.

For a car used for street cruising and no track time,
I don't think the frame difference's matter enough
to affect your decision. Other issues are more important
such as service after the sale.

Fran Hall's kits (RCR) are just the major components.
If you want a complete nut/bolt kit with a detailed Manual,
I doubt Fran's offerings would be appropriate.

MikeD

[Chris Martino]

Lately, full-time forum firefighter for MDA. I've got my boots, my firesuit & helmet so far. Seems like I'll need a resperator and bigger hose soon.

Here's one for ya - who has an original GTD or other that is EXACTLY the same - that hasn't been modified in any way? Not many I'm sure so lets see some facts and figures about how those mods were made, see some pictures and test results too. Get my point?

Let me know.

Ron, please install a spell check for me. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Thanks

Chris

[Ian K]

Chris,

First off, I don't want to sound as if I am bashing you, Mark,
or MDA. So, in advance, I offer up my apologies if I come across
as doing so.

Second, it appears that you have removed any info in your
signature/description that links you with MDA - was that
intentional? Are you still an MDA affiliate? I believe that
was what Mark was getting at, and Ron has made requests in
the past that if you are involved in any official capacity
with a GT40 manufacturer, to please state so.

Third, as far as individual's doing mods to a chassis - again,
that is not the point being addressed. What a manufacturer
sells to the public versus what a builder does in private
are two entirely seperate issues. The interest in safety
entails what the manufacturer puts out as officially endorsed
product. For instance, I'd be interested to see if Roy Smart's
GTD chassis has the chassis cross-brace that has caused such
a ruckus on this board. Obviously Frank Catt's Wealden
Engineering has done the modification for a number of customers,
and RF, Tornado, RCR and even the original monocoques have
some sort of cross-brace/reinforcement installed between the
rear suspension points. I'd be curious to see if ERA and CAV
do likewise (I think ERA does). So somewhere, someone thought
it was a good idea.

Again, I am not attacking you, Mark, or MDA. The concerns raised
about the chassis structure may be valid based on how many
manufacturers have some sort of reinforcement in place. But,
to challenge those assertions and requests for test results
with how the home builder has modified the chassis is a real
stretch. Now, I would like to see the numbers for a GTD chassis
as modified by Wealden Engineering, since they are an aftermarket
builder/supplier. That would be a more appropriate request.

I hope you understand my point.

Ian

[Chris Martino]

Whether it's mean to or not, when negative opinions are posted, especially many on the same subject, they WILL create air of doubt. No factual information to back up any of it becomes pure speculation. You can't do that. 100,000 opinions doesn't amount to a hill of ant poop.

Responsible posting - do your homework, show us proof before you make statements. Don't take the safe way out, put your cards on the table and call a spade a spade. I've realised that acronyms like IMHO don't mean squat. IMHO is a shield because you're not sure about what your are saying or your views don't reflect those of others right??? Why don't you just say "Hey, I'm not sure what I'm talking about so don't take what I am going to say seriously but IMHO blaa, blaa, blaa..." same thing right?

I am a MDA rep and I will take full responsibility for this thread, but until some accountability is taken then I won't have the MDA logo smeared anymore than it already has. There will be 'MDA DNA' put on the table, though some really don't deserve any explanations.


I'm really looking forward to watching the crow eating contest.


Ladder No. 5 [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]