New Shelby GT40's - Page 3

Chris Simpson · 05-04-08, 05:40 PM

Hi Mike

I didn't mean to suggest that everyone who buys a continuation GT40 replica is gullible, just that some manufacturers seem to be attaching a premium to the price because the word "continuation" is involved and some buyers might think they are getting more than they actually are IMHO. Your SPF doesn't appear to fall into this category. Anyway, if it makes some people happy that they have a "continuation" GT40 and they can afford it, why not? I just feel that the only genuine "continuation" GT40 should be made by Ford, using the original jigs and tooling, etc. Everything else is just a replica, with some being very close to the originals in construction and some not so close, but they all look pretty much the same until the bodywork is removed.

Long may you enjoy your SPF.

Chris

SpyderMike · 05-04-08, 06:26 PM

No offense taken Chris.

I ordered mine when Hi-Tech was just rumored to be developing a GT40; my contract was started before it was officially announced. The words "continuation" weren't mentioned then.

I just wanted an authentic replica at a reasonable price. At that time, $50k was intially rumored to be the price. I would have been very happy with any GT40 to be quite honest. I was #2 in line for Rick Mertz's GTD (at $60K), but lost out. I started working an order for a CAV (over $65K), and then they went under. I looked into buying a used RF ($60k), but I wasn't keen to the workmanship of the builder and shortly thereafter RF went under. What I wanted was a decent replica from a manufacturer that would be around to support it; one that was known for quality.

I happen to live within about 10 minutes of SPF and have talked to Lance a few times. Hi-Tech builds very nice cars. Superformance knows how to market. Lance is no dumby. He knows the cars are worth more than $65k and so the price went up to $79.9K - to find what the market will bear. You will see that they have lowered it from $79.9K to $75K recently due to the economy. They are still selling them. Are they worth it? I think so. You may not. So be it. Do I wish they would sell for $50k? Hell yes. Would Lance/SPF be foolish to sell them at $50k? I think so. How does a marketeer keep interest in the product and ty to sell more and try to make more profit? By doing exactly what Lance is doing.

Does marketing with the word "continuation" do anything for me? No.
Does it trigger anyone elses goosebumps? I don't care, that is up to them.
Does the marketing info state that the car is a replication? Yes it does. Read below under chassis "The GT40®'s chassis is a near-exact replication of the original race car's monocoque unibody".
Do you think a bigger disclaimer needs to be made?

Who are we trying to save here? The gullible rich guy that has more money than brains and doesn't take the time to know what it is he is buying? If so, why are we trying to save them and how do I meet these people?

Kind Regards,
Mike

it's just a car - a replica at that

Pete. · 05-04-08, 06:27 PM

Just to explain a little further why I think the the "continuation" cars may risk being "passed off" as ''original" I quote part of an advertisement in Motor Sport Magazine.
"now come the definitive recreations of the legendary Le Mans winning GT40s of 1966 to 1969. Such is their degree of precision and Authenticity, that over 90% of all the component parts are interchangeable with the original 1960's cars', including the entire 'monocoque' pressed steel chassis and roof sections; in addition, chassis numbering continues from the original production run (GT40P 2000 Series), the cars are titled and badged as 'GT40's and each is listed in the S.A.A.C. World registry."

Not saying anything other than the cars are re-creations but fast forward a few years and the cars are in the hands of a less than ethical dealer. Talking to a less than knowledgeable buyer?

SpyderMike · 05-04-08, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete

Hi Mike, you may note I talked about "Big bucks and limited knowledge". I don't know how you are in the bucks department but I am sure your knowledge of all things GT40 is right up there..

I consider my knowledge of GT40s to be average - I rely on reference material a lot due to decreased brain cell activity. My finances are sufficient to support my current lifestyle until my passing (could always use more though). I am not sure what this has to do with being practical in the purchase of a replica (continuation or not).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete

Where IMHO the continuation thing may devalue the real deal, is because the lines get blurred and the less than knowledgeable may purchase a "continuation" thinking it is original and spending far more than a replica is worth.

I still don't understand how you think this devalues an original?

Would it make people feel better is the word "continuation" were stricken from the marketing material? I just don't get the sensitivity to the concept.

Kind regards,
Mike

SpyderMike · 05-04-08, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete

Not saying anything other than the cars are re-creations but fast forward a few years and the cars are in the hands of a less than ethical dealer. Talking to a less than knowledgeable buyer?

I think I see where you are headed. However, who is getting hurt here? The buyer that overpays for a replica? Shame on them - they deserve it.

I will submit that the seller that owns an original will always find a buyer who knows the difference and ponies up $$ appropriately (or they wouldn't sell it would they?). No devaluation there....

Regards,
Mike

Ray III · 05-05-08, 02:28 AM

I just saw a ad in hemmings in the race car listings for a 66 spf gt 40 this not a kit car he says it is a real gt40 " CONTINUATION " Why is his car a real gt40 and mine a kit car ? Because he payed some one to build it for him . This gentelman had me convinced this was original gt40 mabe he thinks it is after all it is titled as a 66 gt40 ford.

David Marx · 05-05-08, 12:19 PM

I am not a GT40 expert, but the pictures show a LHD car. Is that a true continuation? I think it's a marketing gimmick for US clients.

SpyderMike · 05-05-08, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ray maserang III

I just saw a ad in hemmings in the race car listings for a 66 spf gt 40 this not a kit car he says it is a real gt40 " CONTINUATION " Why is his car a real gt40 and mine a kit car ? Because he payed some one to build it for him . This gentelman had me convinced this was original gt40 mabe he thinks it is after all it is titled as a 66 gt40 ford.

caveat emptor

only the truly wise can see through the smoke and mirrors.

actually, his is a continuation because through some shady business structure he has the legal right to call it that. strange but true.

SpyderMike · 05-05-08, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fadiboy

I am not a GT40 expert, but the pictures show a LHD car. Is that a true continuation? I think it's a marketing gimmick for US clients.

the gimmick is used worldwide.

chuck smith · 05-05-08, 02:44 PM

Mike, I see no "shady" practice at all. It seems like good business too me, just as the re entry of shelby cobras has been. Create a desireable, accurate product and market it to people that appreciate it. I think the sales prove their point. It is a real continuation GT40(not an original) and whether you like that description or not,it is moot, because it is just that since Safir says so. And, I am not aware that it comes in kit form, so it is not a kit. Will the Shelby continuation SPF be successful? I have no idea, and really do not care. It was a business decision by his company and his right to do so.

SpyderMike · 05-05-08, 03:08 PM

Chuck, I totally agree. My toungue was firmly planted in cheek.

chuck smith · 05-05-08, 03:52 PM

I thought that might be the case

Richard · 05-05-08, 05:02 PM

As the owner of SPF GT40 P2197 I know exactly what I have. A very nice reproduction for the 1960’s Ford GT/GT40 that raced and won many times back in the day. I also happen to think it is one of the most beautiful cars ever made. So far I am preaching to the choir. I honestly think some of the other GT40’s may be better engineered and or built but after having a heart attack a few years back I knew I wanted to spend more time driving my car than building it (my ZFQ should ship this week).

In many ways having my new car in the Shelby registry will keep the very thing we are talking about from happening. According to the boys at SAAC one of their main jobs is to separate the “REAL” cars from the lets say, not so real cars. Having both of my cars in the registry will do just that. If anyone looks, my “GT40” will be listed as a SPF GT40 continuation car and my GT350H will be a 1966 Hertz/Shelby GT350H, nothing more nothing less.

Based on a new law in the state of Idaho my car will be registered as a 1966 GT40 VIN GT40P2197. Is it a “REAL” GT40, well yes and no? Yes, based on copyright law it is, based on what I know as a 58 year old car nut NO! Am I going to really enjoy driving my GT40, hopefully just as much as the rest of you? After that I won’t care, my kids can install hover conversions in them (or NOT) and have fun. Just my $.02.

Richard · 05-05-08, 05:25 PM

Anyone out there want to help me start a "Real" GT40 registry? We can list all the "Real" and not quite as "Real" GT40's that have ever been built.

Anyone?

If not now, when? If not us, who (or whom)?

Tod · 05-06-08, 11:48 AM

I don't own a GT40, but I have to agree with Richard. There were only a set number of GT40s that were built and raced back in the 1960s. Anything built since then, call them "continuations" or "replicas" are still not the original cars - it doesn't what a manufacturer calls them.

What I want to know is why couldn't I order a vehicle from Superformance, have it painted to my favorite Lemans car specs and not have to pay the mark-up that is surely being charged for something with Carrol Shelby's name on it???

To qoute another of our members -- "Flame suit on..."

Richard · 05-06-08, 12:03 PM

You can, just make sure you pick a good dealer. Talk to the folks a Olthoff Racing.

SpyderMike · 05-06-08, 01:23 PM

Tod,

I think you are confusing "continuation" with "commemorative". All SPFs are "continuation". The Shelby ones are "commemorative". SPF pays Safir for the license to make "continuation" and they pay Safir + Shelby for the licenses to make "commemorative". If you want the Shelby look without the stinkin Shelby badges, then you can spec that under the "continuation" (i.e., SPFs standard product).

Mike

Chris Simpson · 05-06-08, 02:40 PM

Here we go again. Safir is not Ford, so how can it make or authorise "continuation" GT40s as if they are the genuine article, although I accept that they have bought and have the legal right to do so. IMHO they are just replicas, albeit very accurate ones. SPF states that their cars are 90% as per the originals. That leaves 10% which differs, no doubt in the engine and brakes departments which makes them better cars than the originals but not exact replicas. As I have said before, IMO the only genuine GT40s were built by FAV or their American partners in the '60s.

Chris

SpyderMike · 05-06-08, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrissimp

Here we go again. Safir is not Ford, so how can it make or authorise "continuation" GT40s as if they are the genuine article, although I accept that they have bought and have the legal right to do so. IMHO they are just replicas, albeit very accurate ones.

Who is saying that they aren't replicas...where is the rub?

chuck smith · 05-06-08, 03:59 PM