Olivers Ride RF with ZF - Page 2

Sandy · 02-07-06, 01:40 AM

Sounds like a similar motor that I have going into the car. Are they going to do production on the manifolds? They are really nice looking piece!

Sandy

frank beuker · 02-07-06, 02:32 AM

Ross
I've got a pantera zf which is placed as above i haven't put an engine in yet but what are the problems if i keep it in this way
Frank

David Morton · 02-07-06, 03:09 AM

You will need to modify your car extensively by turning the drivers seat through 180 degrees, change your steering column drastically so that it faces the other way and has numerous links to get it to the rack because it too is now facing to the back and the find some leg room down the side of your engine. You will now have a rear wheel steering front wheel drive car with crap aerodynamics. The reason - if you try to use it like this you will have 5 reverse gears and one forward unless you feel like doing the above modifications. This may be the way it's used in a Pantera but not the way it is used for a -40. Either the car is unpside down or this gearbox/transaxle is the wrong way up, it needs rotating laterally by 180 degrees, and IMHO an appropriate bell housing to suit. That would also explain your drive shaft angles. To put it mildy, it's simply wrong.
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

frank beuker · 02-07-06, 07:21 AM

Howcome that its the same placed in a pantera?
unless i'm mistaken

frank beuker · 02-07-06, 07:23 AM

and they go with the nose forward [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/1poke.gif[/img]
lol

Andy Besic · 02-07-06, 07:33 AM

Frank and John's ZF's are sitting as they would in a Pantera. To run a Pantera ZF true GT40 style the ring and pinion must be flipped and some internal modifications must be made for oiling. Original cars ran dry sump, ZF flipped in relation to Pantera's and axle shafts angled slightly down.

John
Car is looking awesome! I can't wait to see it on the track. When are you planning on the maiden voyage? The Chicago Alfa Romeo club has a 2 day track day scheduled for the Autobahn Country Club May 6 and 7. More track time than your body can handle, good group of guys, and a great way to test and tune.

Andy

frank beuker · 02-07-06, 07:36 AM

maybe i should have tould you that i've got the compleet drive line of a pantera like it has been in a pantera

frank beuker · 02-07-06, 07:38 AM

ok so the main reason is orginality or does it also have consequenses for the engine hight?

Keith Hardy · 02-07-06, 08:37 AM

To Flip or Not to Flip. That is the question. Maybe this thread will help. There's plenty in the archives!

ZF Transmissions.

have fun [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Oliver · 02-07-06, 09:49 AM

Another shot should anserw some questions. The BMWm1 shiftbox and linkage will be fitted on the Zf-2.Also, I found out the case is made of magnesuim and not alum. Very rear? I don't know! But most are all alum and steel.

Oliver · 02-07-06, 10:30 AM

The Rf was designed around the Audi box so by keep ng the box right side up was easier and cheaper to switch shifter sides. This way you don't have to do all the internal oil modifications. When the box was reconditioned and upgrade ie safty wire bolts etc.. it solved the problem without having to cut up the frame. It is a much cleaner installation.

Keith Hardy · 02-07-06, 10:51 AM

Apparently -2 ZF's in BMW M1's were available as an option in magnesium pre 1975. After that, they were constructed of more durable aluminum. Dunno about Panteras though.

Personally, wouldn't think that a Pantera would be offered with a mag box but I may be wrong on that.

Re: Box inversion, surely the idea of inverting the transaxle is to lower the C of G and get the ideal ride height for handling thus emulating the original etc?

Keith Baker · 02-07-06, 02:32 PM

Sorry Guys I'm afraid I haven't a clue which way goes which but Dave Mortons answer had me in stitches.
Chuck the lot away and put A Proper gearbox in it a Porsche G50 Turbo.

Mark Pickford · 02-07-06, 02:36 PM

Like Frank, I wouldn't mind having that explained too. I understand the point of rotating the box laterally through 180* if we were talking G50 gboxes. Obviously in the 911, the transaxle is infront of the engine. But surely if the Pantera has the same setup to a GT40 mid engine arrangement(as shown in Franks pic above), then how come the Pantera doesn't have five reverse gears and one forward?

Just curious.

Andy Besic · 02-07-06, 02:48 PM

The ZF 25-0 was designed to run input shaft low and output shafts (axles) high. This pretty much requires a drysump system as the Crankshaft of the motor is 3-4" below the axles. The Pantera "flipped" the original box in order to use a more standard motor/sump set-up. ZF-1 and -2 are manufactured to run input shaft high but were originally designed to run input shaft low. Clear as mud?

Andy

Scott McDill · 02-07-06, 02:50 PM

Mark,
When flipping a "pantera" ZF, the box is opened and the ring gear is moved to the other side.

Andy Besic · 02-07-06, 03:14 PM

Thanks Scott....I forgot to state the most important aspect!

Oliver · 02-07-06, 03:33 PM

Gosh You guys make it so hard! Scott hit the nail on the head. No big brain teaser! I guess you we have to see when I blow your doors off on the track! Of course to some I will be going backwards.

Trust me this will work perfect! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bash.gif[/img]

Russ Noble · 02-07-06, 05:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
see when I blow your doors off on the track!

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably not around the corners with the motor sitting so excessively high! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/1poke.gif[/img]

Regards

Oliver · 02-07-06, 06:09 PM

Oh how wrong thow are! When fiished...all will say howhedodat sillyrabbit!