Transaxle strength

[Richard Timte]

As far as strength is concerned, The Hewland LG500 and LG600 have it. These are the four and five speed boxes used in CAM/AM (Big block power) cars. They weigh 136 and 145 LBS.

Attached is a line drawing of the box.

Here's a link to Hewland's maintenance manual if you would link more info.

Hewland Manuals

[Lynn]

Richard,

Wouldn't these straight cut, dog engagement gearboxes be a PITA in a street car though?

Regards,
Lynn

[Lynn]

Six Speed Transaxle Gearbox

This is a universal synchromesh or dog engagement unit for either mid or rear engined applications. Bellhousings and input quill shafts can be made to suit a wide range of engines with the crank centreline either above or below the drive shaft output. 'H' pattern or sequential gearchange.



QUAIFE QTECH 6 SPEED TRANSAXLE SEQUENTIAL GEARBOX

This new gearbox will fit any vehicle with the same measurements as the new Porsche 6 speed 996 box, as it is a direct replacement for this box. We suggest a maximum of 500bhp. We offer dog engagement and sequential options only, with straight cut gears for race use and helical gears for road use, with a weight of only 65kg.

Our unique Automatic Torque Biasing Differential is included, with over 15 types of bellhousings available. The new box will be on show for the first time at the Autosport International Show.

The price is £7,450 + vat, with optional digital gear position indicator and gear lever available, at extra cost.

[Richard Timte]

Lynn,

Yes, but the GT40 is really a race car you can drive on the street is it not. So having gear noise and positive shifts are not a problem with me. I will go with the go fast stuff over comforts any day.

It really comes down to what you want.

[Richard Timte]

Lynn,

How long is the Quaife gearbox from output shaft to the but end? Looks a little long or it might be the view in the picture/drawing.

[Tim Kay]

Lynn,

What timing. I was just on the phone this morning with Fortin Racing. Because I currently do business with them in my offroad stuff I was considering their new 6 speed sequential for my 40 (if it will fit @ 33” long).

They only offer straight cut dog gears in their units. My experience with the dog gears doesn’t really bring much concern for street\race but the straight cut gears, let me tell you. They are LOUD, and for any extended driving time you would be asking for ear plugs not to mentioned passengers ………….let put it this way, they won’t be asking for a second ride [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] Don't get me wrong, I’m one for all the high performance noise one can dish out, but straight cut gears do get annoying.

With your post showing Quaife 6 speed sequential synchromesh, you got me thinking. Not to mention Quaife’s price beats Fortin’s $20,000+ price tag.

Could you possibly post a contact for me to inquire?

[osborni]

[ QUOTE ]
Lynn,

Yes, but the GT40 is really a race car you can drive on the street is it not. So having gear noise and positive shifts are not a problem with me. I will go with the go fast stuff over comforts any day.

It really comes down to what you want.

[/ QUOTE ]

To reiterate Tim Kay - Straight cut boxes are LOUD. They will drown out all but the largest displacement engines. The noise they produce is also a frequency that is extremely annoying. If you ever heard a straight cut box as a spectator, it is twice a loud in the car.

[Tim Kay]

Lynn,

No need to post info, I found Quaife America.

Jasper,
Is the Quaife in the picture above a 6 speed sequential or H-pattern shift (what model #)? Never mind, I re-read your post above the pic and you state it is a 6 speed sequential [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Is it possible to give overall dimension from where the bellhousing mates to the motor; to the very rear end of the tranny? Also, where the bellhousing mates to the motor to the center line of the axle? (I am assuming the picture above is a GT40)

[Bigend]

The box is a 6 speed sequential dog box. The dimensions that you request depend entirely on what bellhousing you are using. I am using a Pantera one and had the input shaft made to suit my application, GTD40 in this case. If you email Quaife they will send you a spec sheet of the dimensions of the gearbox.
Incidentally, I do not agree about the noise of the gears, inside the car the engine noise is much louder than the gears, although as a spectator the higher pitched gear whine will carry further.

Mike

[Gary Gibbs]

I am sure we posted a drawing of the Quaife with dimension in the long Quaife thread from 1.5 years ago.
See this tread

I think the main problem was that the price was out of the range of most all people.

[Hershal Byrd]

There is one more option that wasn't mentioned here. That
is the O1E 6speed box out of a 2003 Audi A8 or RS6.The two wheel drive versions are only available in Europe but they are easy to obtain. These transaxles are hooked up to 450BHP
engines. Now that's way more than the old O16 box was rated for. I know that RF has put this box in a few cars and I know the blue RFGT40 is still doing great with it.
It seems to me that as light as our cars are that this trans solves a bunch of problems. I'm going to use it when I get my new engine. That way I can swap it all out at once.
I have seen these transaxles for sale as low as $4K. This is alot less than 10 or 12K. Even doing all the R&D would still keep it reasonable.

Hersh [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Tim Kay]

Gary,

Thanks for the link, I should have searched. I was assuming this box was much newer than February '03. So it would still be nice to get the latest specs on it, possible changes could have taken place in 18 months. I will cantact Quaife today and I will forward to this thread any additional info I may come up with.

Did anyone from the prior thread that showed interest, besides Jasper, purchase the Quaife? Or did Logan have any input regarding his findings?

Jasper,
What has been your experience thus far, ie fit, shifting, ect.? Straight cut or helical?

[Bigend]

I have had the box for 4 years, straight cut gears and ATB LSD. Slightly longer than the ZF, but still fits in the GTD nicely. I've been putting over 500bhp through it with no problems.
It feels totally bombproof and the change is very positive. Expensive.....yes, but easier to live with than a Hewland (need to lower the engine about 4" and dry sump it). Easier to work on and obtain parts for than a ZF, and a good range of gear ratio and final drive options. Plus Quaife factory is 25 minutes away!

Mike

[Gary Gibbs]

I think there are several people who would be interested if the price would be under $10k.

[Tim Kay]

Gary,

Unfortunately, it seems once you utter the word “sequential” you increase the cost by a minimum of $6,000 usd. Utter “Quiafe” in the same sentence just tacked on another few thousand dollars. Gotta pay for all that research and development somehow, and make a profit. Can’t fault them for that.


Jasper,

Today I contacted Quaife America and they respectfully answered a few questions and emailed a spec drawing with dimensions. One of my questions was availability of the Mk2 heavy duty (looks a lot like yours) and the answer was Q-Tek 6 was the only sequential being produced.

If you wouldn’t mind, I’m going to ask you a few more questions:

1) What bell housing are you attached to?

2) If the noise of the straight cut gears were a small consideration and you were to purchase another, and the car were to be driven 80% street and 20% track, would you consider the helical instead of straight cut?

3) There appears to be a difference, at least visually, between your box and the Q-Tek 6, do you know why? Is yours the Mk 2?

4) Is your box standard or inverted fitment?

5) When you said “need to lower the engine about 4" and dry sump it” were you referring to the Hewland or that’s what you did with the Quiafe?

6) Finally, what gear ratios and ring & pinion did you have installed?

I’m sure I have more but I feel I’m imposing on you as it is. Your input here is greatly appreciated and helping me make my decision is worth a million to me [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I’ve been down this road before in my off road cars, thinking if you spend the “big buck” for the “latest, greatest” equipment you’ll get the best performance. In most cases it’s true but they all seem to need just that little extra “wigdit” they neglected to tell you in order to get the results expected. Fine with me as long as you know at the onset. It’s like the lawyer I hired for my divorce, highly recommended, handled big name people, big money settlements, lots of divorces. My case wasn’t that complicated and I was billed for many hours of “research”?!!? He’s got all this experience and I’m paying him to go back to school ………. Oh no, now you got me started [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]…….. get back to GT40 stuff……[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Lynn]

I know we have Speed Channel freaks on here. Do you remember some of the in car video and sound of Boris Said in the Mustang or just about any of the road course cars when they have in car sound with the video? That high pitched whine ain't no timing gear. That's straight cut gears that you hear way above the engine noise. I am all for go fast parts, but I see no GOOD reason for using straight cut gears in ANY kind of street car. If you are going to strictly race your GT40, then IMHO go for it! If you plan on spending any time just traveling in the car, again IMHO, for get it.

Hersh, I think the Audis are a REAL alternative, but that price you quoted kind of blew me away. When the Audi thing first started, the argument was that they only cost $200-$400 so who cared if it wasn't as strong as a Porsche, you could blow up and replace 10 of them for the price of a Porsche transaxle. Not no more! apparently. Now it sounds like I could buy 2 Porches for the price of the really nice Audi or 3 for the price of the Quaife. The one other thing that kind of gets me about the Audi is the exact opposite issue that was mentioned about the Hewland: you have to lower the engine too far with the Hewland and dry sump it so it doesn't drag the ground, but with the Audi, you are having to raise it up a bit to far, IMHO. That said, Robert has certainly proved that you can put different gearboxes in an RF as I mentioned early on here. God bless John Hester, where ever he is now, but he had a really good idea that no one else has, apparently, picked up on: it was his plan to offer several different, interchangable horse collars on his chassis to allow customers to insert transaxle of choice here (so to speak :-). At one time, that was to include the Quaife, but he couldn't get them to loan/sell him an empty case so he could mock it up. He had planned to definitely support ZF/RBT, Porsche and Audi transaxles though.

Regards,
Lynn

PS I am just glad that we can have this discussion. When I started looking at building a midengine V8 car in 1969, the choices were Corvair, ZF (for 1/3 the cost of a new Pantera) or Tornado (the car, not the GT40 replica company :-) Oh and of course the old favorite VW Bus transaxle!

[Tim Kay]

Please excuse my stupidity for a moment:

Inverted - means the interals are flopped?

The actual case doesn't invert?

All mid-engines have to be inverted?

[Gary Gibbs]

Usually inverted means the output shafts are above the center line of the engine. Normal would be the output shafts below. To keep the CG low you want to run a box inverted if possible. The audis can only run normal. The ZF's and Quaife's can run either way.

[Richard Timte]

Hey,

I am going to run a straight cut gear gearbox. I am doing this because no helical gearbox can handle over 700 HP and the engine I have does. Well here is a picture of the engine going in the car. The stacks will be cut down to the proper lengh as soon as I determine what that lengh is.