Pulleys and Brackets - CAV GT40 build

Martin · 12-26-07, 10:09 AM

Hi,
after long waiting Santa Claus came and brought me through Sean Hyland Motorsport the largest christmas gift, which I ever got.
So I can start with the next steps for the building.
I need pulleys and brackets for the Ford crate engine 392 (351). Ford no. is M-6007-C392FT.
Ford Racing Performance Parts [M-6007-C392FT*]

I will change the water pump and will use the Meziere electric water pump WP311.
Meziere Enterprises

The drive is on the left. The A/C must bee on the driver side, the alternator on the other side.

Knows someone where I can buy a set?

Martin

Howard Jones · 12-26-07, 02:49 PM

Double post, sorry

Howard Jones · 12-26-07, 02:50 PM

I see you have a nice new FMS crate motor. Now I don't want to ruin you Christmas but here's my 2c's worth. I believe that the crate motors are built on the same assembly line by the same people who put together the current production motors at Ford. What they do is select internal parts based on parameters such as rod weight, piston weight, crank journal size etc. Then put the pistons that are about the same weight and the rods that are about the same weight into the motor. I say about because they are not the same weight just in a band of weights. They do the same with piston size and ring gap. About close.

What you end up with is a motor that has all new parts that are "about" in balance.

Mine (345HP 302) lasted 3000 miles. About 300 of it was on track with a rev limit of 6K.) The rear main bearing spun and hurt the crank enough that I replaced it. As I took it apart I made every attempt to measure everything. Several rod bolts were down to 10 Ft/lb's, ring gaps were all over the place, and a couple of the the bearings had what I would say were excessive clearances.

I have a cannon 7 quart pan and a oil cooler system with 8 1/2 quarts total in the car. It wasn't oil. I have run the same engine for about 600 track miles and another 5000 road miles since the repair (New crank, damper, complete rebuild/ full balance, same pistons and rods with ARP bolts. Runs good now.

Now you can put some of this down to the vibration that resulted from the spun bearing but ring gaps don't change because the lower end eats up the main bearings.

So now that you have all those brand new parts I would recommend that you take it apart and have a reputable engine balance shop balance it for you. You will more than likely be able to reuse all of the parts except the bearings and rings. I would put in some good high per rings and take out the stepped rings that FMS uses if that is what you find along with ARP rod bolts when it goes back together. I would closely inspect the heads, especially the valve spring retainers etc. But otherwise bolt them back on when the engine is put back together.

All this is especially true if you intend to use anything other than the flywheel that came with the motor.

These engines work very well in hot rods that are really boulevard cruisers. Or only run hard for a few seconds at a time off of stop lights etc. They are not intended for track use and FMS will tell you that. Good parts, just not assembled carefully enough for extended hard use.

Ya, I know, I didn't believe it either. But for a few hundred more you can have a fine engine that is balanced properly. It's not now, unless FMS has drastically changed their process.

Please don't think I am criticizing your engine choice. I made nearly the same one. I just saying that you can't expect a blueprinted engine from a production line assembly operation.

Gary Kadrmas · 12-26-07, 09:02 PM

Howard,

I have used Gray's Automotive in Tigard, Oregon for over 30 years. About 3 years ago, I remember the owner (Mick Gray) telling me a high end customer bought a similar crate engine to put in a MkIV Cobra. Mick was successful in talking the owner to have the engine disassembled and reassembled after a rebalance and tolerance set-up. Mick said the engine was put together real sloppy, and he said it would have gone about a couple hundred miles and then would have puked dead. Mick did his stuff, and the engine is still running strong to this day. (The owner has his name on the sign of a very respectable Ford Dealership here in the Portland area).

So I have to say that if you intend to twist the engine anything over 4-5 grand, better spend a few more $$$ to have the engine redone to last longer.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Martin · 12-27-07, 08:52 AM

Hi Howard, hi Gary,
don´t worry, you don´t have ruined Christmas, but you bring some dark clouds on the sky.
I mean FMS had changed a lot in the assembling line. Perhaps therefore they also changed the name to Ford Racing Performance Parts (FRPP).
The assembling you can see under http://www.fordracingparts.com/crateengine/crateenginebuildup.asp
or on the pictures.
Thank your for the advice. I will check everything exactly.
Do you also have an advice for the pulleys and brackets I can use for the engine?

Martin

**devaney** · 12-27-07, 02:25 PM

Martin, have a good year,all is well at Ford. I just tore down a new Ford small block with the same concern as above posts. It was a waste of time, in short, all parts and clearances where as they say in the trade, dead nuts, that is spot on! Run it as is.

Now someone help him with the pulleys and brackets. Mike

Howard Jones · 12-27-07, 03:19 PM

Well then good for Ford. I happy to hear that they have responded to the real problems that they had a couple of years ago. Simple fix really. Just take the time necessary to do a proper ballance and assembly job.

Happy Christmas

Howard

Russ Noble · 12-27-07, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howard Jones

These engines work very well in hot rods that are really boulevard cruisers. Or only run hard for a few seconds at a time off of stop lights etc. They are not intended for track use and FMS will tell you that. Good parts, just not assembled carefully enough for extended hard use.

Howard has hit the nail on the head.

Depends on your intended usage. Me, I would check everything regardless because of the investment in the motor. What if the assembly guy has just had a fight with his girl friend? Do you really think his mind will be on the finer points of engine assembly? I'm a great believer in the old adage "if you want it done right, do it yourself" However in saying that, if you are only going to be boulevard cruising the odds are that the motor will be fine.

I don't have any input on pulleys (we'll be building our own), although there is quite a bit of discussion on this thread of Ron's that may be useful

Front Dress - What a mess!

Cheers

Kalun D · 01-02-08, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by collaudatore

Hi,

I will change the water pump and will use the Meziere electric water pump WP311.
Meziere Enterprises

The drive is on the left. The A/C must bee on the driver side, the alternator on the other side.

Knows someone where I can buy a set?

Martin

Good choice on the water pump.

I ended up using a 350 Chevy alum crank pulley. It fits flat against the balancer. The Ford ones stick out too much. Then fabbed the alt. pulley, (no ac).