D Bell R21 upgrade

Howard Jones · 09-12-05, 03:42 PM

I would be interested in particapating in a group buy on the D Bell internals for Renault R21's. I would want the Quafe LSD also. Since I have not seen any recent pricing on these pieces I would like to get a fairly firm idea what they would be.

Also does anyone have a complete R21 with BOTH the D Bell main input shaft/ 1st gear mod AND the Quafe LSD installed for sale? If so please drop me a e-mail.

I would do any deal to the satisfaction of the seller concerning exchange of moneys.

If a group buy is possible I might be able to organize some more interested parties here in the US.

Andy Besic · 09-12-05, 08:35 PM

I may be interested in a group buy as well.
Andy

Iron Sheik · 09-13-05, 01:14 AM

It is written,therefore it shall be done. I am very interested and have no money.

Jones be praised

Brian · 09-13-05, 12:17 PM

Ditto for me, long on interest, short on money, for now... Ideally, this would be arranged during the GT-40 folks get together at Goodwood in October of 06, then the kits/transaxles could come back as excess baggage. Been there done that.

40 Bud · 09-13-05, 03:32 PM

You have to be keep in mind that these conversions are not a regular stock item. My understanding is that the kits are only made up when there are several (like 10 or more) sets on order. Then the Derek Bell organization places an order for the kits to be made. I don't know the lead time required. You would need to contact Derek Bells company directly to get the details.

Paul W · 09-13-05, 05:24 PM

I don't think the original Derek Bell upgrade is available anymore - however I think Quaiffe have started manufaturing (Might be under licence) the same 1 piece shaft - they obviously do the LSD already. It might be worth calling your local Quaiffe supplier to see if they can get you one.

Scott · 09-13-05, 05:58 PM

When I spoke with Derek in January of '04 he said he was in negotiations to license the upgrade to an undisclosed gear manufacturer, and was therefore not in a position to supply kits at the time. Haven't heard anything since. Makes sense that it would be Quaife, though.

I am also interested. Am interested in a 3.44:1 ring and pinion as well, since my 369 'box came with 4.11:1 gears. Anybody have a gearset laying around?

Scott

Brett James-McCall · 09-13-05, 06:19 PM

You all need to speak to Chris Coles nicely...

Fred/Belgium · 09-14-05, 03:18 AM

I second Brett's comment: Chris Cole is the man.
Fred

Iron Sheik · 09-15-05, 03:42 PM

Ohhhh, so then that would be $10000 for the input shaft alone. You can buy TO bearings from him for around $90 [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Paul Thompson 'Hooligan' · 09-15-05, 04:51 PM

Greetings Faili [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

As I recall - Chris is doing the 'one-piece' shaft conversions for about £1750 (NO VAT) + the cost of ATB diff if required. Details in next club mag...

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Andy Besic · 09-15-05, 05:07 PM

Can somebody explain to me how a input shaft costs $3500 approx.? I know, I know small runs...exclusive rights blah blah. How many would I have to order to get that cost to around $1000 USD?

Scott · 09-15-05, 05:42 PM

Regarding the ATB:
http://www.midatlanticmotorsport.com/quaife.htm

Salient line reads:
"Renault - R30 / Alpine (UN1 gearbox) 85.309.150 ($)1,395.00"

Quaife America's website also has some interesting references to gearsets in quantities as low as 10.

Scott

Brian · 09-15-05, 09:06 PM

Does anyone know what Chris gets for a completly upgraded R-21 with single piece shaft, new ATB dif, plus the springs and syncro mods? Also, I know we have to get a different friction plate because of the size of the input shaft, but what about the clutch cover and flywheel?

Brian

Howard Jones · 09-19-05, 10:22 AM

Andy, I think you could have a clutch rebuilder make you up a friction disk with a ford splined center. If you did this using a orginal renault part then it would be a direct replacement. Also your flywheel could be reused. The other good thing about this idea is you can get Centerforce upgraded clutches as direct replacements for Delorians that use the same R21/30 gearbox.

I have a unused V6 flywheel and a new clutch( with a ford spline) for use with this upgrade if I ever am able to follow thru on it.

When I return home from Florida next week I will give Quafe a call and see if I can come up with some hard information on gearsets. They seam to already have ABT diffs in stock from time to time. More on this later.

Howard Jones · 09-19-05, 10:34 AM

I am in Miami today but when I return home I'll spend some time on the phone to Quafe America and see if I come up with some hard information. They seam to make a in stock ABT but don't have a gearset listed in the gearset aplication list for a R21/30. More on this later.

Howard Jones · 09-19-05, 10:48 AM

Sorry for the double post but I'm using a TV based web service and it's a pain in the ass.

Paul Thompson 'Hooligan' · 09-19-05, 04:44 PM

Hi Andy
get price down to $1000 - LOADS I suspect! The cost is not just for the Shaft, but for other parts/work too. As I recall the conversion requires you to supply a number of parts from your existing shaft. Gears are reamed out to accept larger shaft, larger bore bearings etc. Also, 1st gear is Straight cut so a matching gear for the secondary shaft is also supplied, together with a replacement pair for 2nd, both of which are longer than the standard UN1 allowing higher speeds in both 1st and 2nd. I am assuming that the Chris Cole conversion is identical to the sets originally supplied by Derek.

Re clutch, getting a Ford center 1" fitted to a Renault plate is an option, but once converted, why not re drill your flywheel and fit an uprated cover/plate combination. The Ford Spline is a very popular size so there are loads of options.

We are finding the 2400lb cover/paddle conversion we have been using is struggling to hold on now, as is Dave in his R42 (even more so when Nos is used) so intend to go for a twin-plate 7" conversion - possibly Tilton.... Anyone got any opinion on Multi-plate choice? (probably better to start a new thread if responding..)

One last thing re the Quaife conversion, I suspect the price / leadtime has something to due with how big a job this represents..... We ask for 10 kits..... Ford ask for 14,000 ATBs for RS Focus..... which has priority do you think?

Andy Besic · 09-19-05, 05:35 PM

Paul,
Thanks for clearing that up!

Howard and fellow GTDers.
Tornado sells/makes a cast bellhousing that accepts a late model Mustang starter, 157 tooth flywheel and comes with the 10 spline 1 1/16" input shaft, TO bearing and arm. 100% better than the Delorean stuff and funky Bosch starter that doesn't exist in the Bosch production codes.
I don't know what the upgraded shaft/kit spline set-up is but if it is the 10 x 1 1/16", the Tornado bellhousing would allow for innumerable flywheel/clutch combo's that would be off the shelf pieces. The late model mustang starter happily spins my 10.5:1 331 with 34 degree adv. locked timing!
John Welch of http://www.wcengineering.com./ Works on the UN1 in the Lotus world and has a number of customers asking about this conversion as well. He is not far from me and seems to be a good guy so Howard I would be happy to get in contact with him to not only try to get a few more kit buyers, but also have a US guy that will do the work.
Let me know how your discussion with Quaife goes.

Andy

Iron Sheik · 09-19-05, 06:15 PM

I had e-mail communication with John, he seems to be a good guy. His prices are also reasonable, I would much rather deal with him since he is here in US. Another possible source may also be http://www.michaelsmotorsports.com/
But his fees/prices seem extreemly "ENGLISH" [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]