Such a thing as too much power?

[John Milmont]

I've seen more than few guys on here that are building very light cars with outrageous horsepower; and I sometimes wonder what they are going to do with all of that power on tap, especially in a street car.

A friend of a friend had a new supercharged shelby GT500 mustang; but of course it just wasn't fast enough being what it was. So, after a 3.2L whipple supercharger was bolted on, the car made 690hp at the wheels...

I had a ride in this car and you pretty much had to tiptoe on the gas. Just a little to much gas and the car would spin its drag radials in any gear.

I don't know why, but I guess the Shelby's don't come with any traction control or maybe it was defeated in the new tune. Anyway, it seems like having this much power and torque is like having a loaded gun with a hair trigger.

Just recently, a few days after I had a ride in the car, I learned that the owner crashed totaling the car and breaking a rib in the process. Apparently he was trying to pass a slower car when he dipped into the power just a little too much and lost control, crossed the middle line and crashed into oncoming traffic. He's lucky to get out with such a minor injury. I saw a picture of the car and its hard to tell what happened, but another car impacted the drivers side door...

Now, I don't know the owner well but I know who he is. He's an older gentleman who knows his way around powerful cars and has been drag racing for many years. So its not like this was some inexperienced punk kid.

Just a little story i thought I'd share..

 

[Dimi Terleckyj]

I believe it comes down to one of 2 things

Bragging rights
or
Big car small D@#k

Given that the roads and the cops wont accept that amount of power and it usually makes the car too dangerous to drive normally.

Dimi

 

[Graham]

Actually John, I completely agree with you. There is little fun in having a hair trigger under your foot. I would also guess that the Mustang wouldn't really have a chassis designed for that much power either.

In most road conditions it is prefereable (at least to me) to have a progressive power band designed within the limitations of the chassis. That way much fun can be had and you will know what your car is doing a long time before it chews you up and spits you out.

 

[Dalton Veitch]

I used to think you could never have too much power, but this was back when we didn't know how to generate what we can today. Now I think that for fun a moderate amount of power is very enjoyable, when you can drive really hard, but not lose it.

 

[Jack Houpe]

Yes, when power becomes unuseful or dangerous it's to much.

 

[Grady]

Funny thing, I have a SuperSnake and don't have any of those problems. It does have Michelin Super Sport tires all the way around, improved adjustable suspension and improved brakes. Oh its 32mm lower on all corners. I did not change to the 3:73 rear end as you loose 1st gear. It does have a dash button to help the control. I guess I go after improvements in handling and braking before increasing the hp. I believe and have demonstrated SB vs BB, SB will usually beat any BB on a road course....and as we have many curves on our roadways. Use to be Porsche would beat the Corvette on the road course until GM figured how to make the proper Corvette.
I guess it is how you use the power. Even in my pick up you don't upset the balance of the car in a curve. I remember a Cobra with a BB and 2-4 barrel carbs, idled at 1,500 rpm and was not practical to drive in traffic. A case of too much carb.
I remember talking with Bob Olthoff as to why you don't need 600 hp in a Cobra. And he was right. You can turn the car with 400 hp. That is the fun of learning how to handle the car on a skid pad and how fast a short wheel base car can get away from you in real life.

 

[Grady]

One more question. If offered a Bugatti Veyron in your choice of color, who among you would turn it down because it has too much horsepower?
Hmmm....

 

[Graham]

One more question. If offered a Bugatti Veyron in your choice of color, who among you you turn it down because it has too much horsepower?
Hmmm....

Not me, but then that wasn't the point. The 1000 BHP on tap in the Bugatti comes with a ton of get out of jail free cards and a chassis designed specifically for the job.

 

[Mark]

It is all about bragging rights IMO.

IMO no way does anyone need more than 400 BHP in the real world, on real roads. Production cars with more than all have all the 'girlie' driving aids fitted to make the car drivable, perhaps even safe. Less can be more. Especially in cars like the ones we tend to discuss/own here.

I'd personally rather drive something with 200 BHP that is properly sorted than the same car with 400, 200 of which is unusable anyway.

I consider myself a truly gifted driver! but with 460 something BHP in my daily driver, I'd be dead now if the on-board nanny didn't step in every so often!

 

[Mike]

600hp in a Mustang does not create an unmanageable beast as has been asserted. Someone who cannot manage a 600hp mustang most likely has a lack of skill and common sense that would cause them to struggle to keep a stock mustang pointed in the right direction. Is this a forum for internet dreamers or high performance car owners? Next time warm the tires up before unskillfully mashing the go pedal.

 

[Jack Houpe]

Remember the SPF GT40 with 1100 HP twin turbos, with a salvage title? It only had a couple hundred miles on the car, not many people can drive a car like that successfully or like Mark Donohue.

 

[Ian Anderson]

600hp in a Mustang does not create an unmanageable beast as has been asserted. Someone who cannot manage a 600hp mustang most likely has a lack of skill and common sense that would cause them to struggle to keep a stock mustang pointed in the right direction. Is this a forum for internet dreamers or high performance car owners? Next time warm the tires up before unskillfully mashing the go pedal.

Ahhhh yes
But then American horses tend to be the smaller variety (Similar to Shetland ponies) compared with proper Scottish horses (Clydesdales!)

Perhaps if we all talked in the same units this would become a sensible discussion

Ian

 

[Mike]

Remember the SPF GT40 with 1100 HP twin turbos, with a salvage title? It only had a couple hundred miles on the car, not many people can drive a car like that successfully or like Mark Donohue.

That was 1100hp in a 2500lb car with a knarly hit when the turbos lit. Apples to oranges when comparing to a whippled mustang.

 

[Mike]

Ahhhh yes
But then American horses tend to be the smaller variety (Similar to Shetland ponies) compared with proper Scottish horses (Clydesdales!)

Perhaps if we all talked in the same units this would become a sensible discussion

Ian

I thought shetland ponies were Scottish? Have you been to Texas(said in a booming voice)?

 

[Grady]

As many of you know, Shelby changes the Mustang with the SuperSnake package. That includes the upgrades to suspension, set up, a one piece drive shaft, and the brakes/wheels. To put a larger supercharger without traction enhancements, will give you the chance to drive an experimental vehicle. Because of the nature of the SC, it is more manageble vs the power curve of a turbo. I can drive the car all day and not move the boost needle, not that I don't hear the underlying whine of twin screws at the ready.
As the quote goes, ' I am an old pilot.'

 

[John Milmont]

The power of the car seemed very linear. It was fuel injected and had a good tune. You could sneak up on the limits of traction very easily. I can only guess what happened: maybe he was adjusting his seat and unknowingly hit the gas while turning the car? Maybe he dropped his cellphone, spilled his coffee, was waving to broads.. who knows.

Grady, you can say what you want about how drivable the car is, and it was drivable. But the street is just full of unknowns and all it takes is something stupid to happen.

But wow, that car had a lot of power. It still had the 3-link rear end, and you could tell that 3rd link was getting stressed heavily with that much power. Parts of the rear end had to be seam welded and reinforced, otherwise I think the car would have torn itself to pieces.

 

[roaldin]

In a well engineered car:
If it defeats traction (ie wheel spins) at the fastest part of the track then it has too much power.
If the power comes with the price of too much weight then it has too much power.
That's about it.

Shelby? What's a Shelby?
Oh yeah, I watched a programme comparing something called a Shelby with a Roush.
The Shelby did not compare well even though it supposedly had more power. Roush had actually had some thought given to obscure things like handling.

Fwiw I live (for the moment) in Australia, a place where people are gradually being
convinced that a padded cell really is a nice place to live.


Tim.

 

[David Morton]

Horsepower - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Some light reading while you have your porridge and black pudding.
I fell asleep again half way through.
I really like excesssive power since in the early nineties I was allowed to play with the RB211- 524H.
Each unit had 60,000 lbs of static thrust ( some of the smart arses among us said that was about 25,000 hp but I got so confused reading the above article I gave up) so with four together and a throttle quadrant not much wider than your four knuckles of your fingers, excess power was the order of the day. It was just staggering and had to be handled so very very carefully. It was always a joy to be allowed a full power takeoff but they were few and far between.
Don't you just love thread creep.
p.s. If you are into black pudding, this is the one:
Charles MacLeod - Makers of Stornoway Black Pudding

 

[Martin]

Yes of coarse there is such a thing as too much power.
Saddam Hussain,
Muammar Gaddafi
Adolf Hitler

All had too much power.... O.K sorry. Just following Davids thread drift theme.

 

[Phil]

I had a friend that had an early GTD with a relatively stock marine 302, and I thought that car performed well. He figured the motor to be at about 300 to 320 hp. I have also driven an original MK1 with a 289 and that drive felt like it pulled better but the motor was slightly peaky and it was definitely a much lighter car.
Looking at the Gulf liveried cars that won at LeMans at slightly over 2000 lbs. and making just north of 400 hp it makes one wonder just how much is necessary and whether all that power that is being put in some of the current chassis is just bragging rights, or just because it can be done.
Maybe I'm just old school, but I look at things like reliability, longevity, cost, etc. and a major factor would be what gearbox to use. How many threads have we seen here on the forum about transaxles and their respective power handling capabilities, they just get more expensive as the capacity increases, and I am surprised many more don't break.
Don't get me wrong, I love power in a good handling chassis, but when the HP level becomes the judging criteria it just throws off the balance of the chassis.
I think 400 hp in a 2200 to 2500 lb chassis would be pretty darn quick and still be a reliable and manageable drive.
Just my 2c
Cheers
Phil