WTF?
- Thread starter Keith1
- Start date
I think movie violence and violent video games desensitize people to the actual consequences of violent acts. Being able to kill in a video or watching a movie vs actual death. We could go into gun control, but if someone wants to kill, they will find a way.
I agree with you Al - but every time this comes up "experts" say there is no link between this kind of violence and video games/movies etc.
There is not a trailer for a new film, any film these days, that does not feature someone holding a gun. I know gun ownership is a sensitive issue in the USA and I also agree that people will find a way if there were no guns.
Perhaps the way guns are perceived and used as "entertainment" value should bear much closer examination but then, you have your First Amendment.
It won't get fixed on it's own. I cannot imagine my feelings as a parent if this happened to a child of mine. I also note that the general response to this problem (not confined to the US) is to "beef up school security" which is like putting a band aid on an amputation.
There is not a trailer for a new film, any film these days, that does not feature someone holding a gun. I know gun ownership is a sensitive issue in the USA and I also agree that people will find a way if there were no guns.
Perhaps the way guns are perceived and used as "entertainment" value should bear much closer examination but then, you have your First Amendment.
It won't get fixed on it's own. I cannot imagine my feelings as a parent if this happened to a child of mine. I also note that the general response to this problem (not confined to the US) is to "beef up school security" which is like putting a band aid on an amputation.
Pat
Supporter
Perhaps part of the issue is the reluctance to friends, family or work/school to identify mentally unstable individuals as being at risk and the inability of law enforcement to act when no crime has been commited. But this is nothing new nor is it simply a component of "gun culture".
My elementary school was the site of a mass murder and fortunately, my class was at the other side of the campus from the carnage. For years people were trying unsucessfully to put logic to the actions of the madman behind it.
Poe school coverage detailed a tragedy - Houston Chronicle
My elementary school was the site of a mass murder and fortunately, my class was at the other side of the campus from the carnage. For years people were trying unsucessfully to put logic to the actions of the madman behind it.
Poe school coverage detailed a tragedy - Houston Chronicle
My ex-wife was a school psycologist K-4 and 6 years later 7-12. Some of the kids she dealt with (K-4) had some scary stuff running around in their heads. She encountered some of these kids in high school, they were still scary.There were people she reported this to, what they did I do not know. A lot slides through the cracks when it should be taken care of.
Dave Lindemann
Lifetime Supporter
What a tragedy.....there are no words to describe the loss the parents and relatives of those killed must feel. I don't have children but I do have nieces and nephews and I can't even imagine the feeling of loss and despair in this type of situation. My heart goes out to all of them.
To me, this is a failure of two things - our mental health system and our gun control laws. Do I think it's realistic to think guns can be removed from American society? Absolutely not. Do I think "assault weapons" are the root of all evil - no! Do I think guns should NOT be made available to those with severe mental illness - absolutely! That is the dilemma - how do we prevent that from happening?
Dave L
To me, this is a failure of two things - our mental health system and our gun control laws. Do I think it's realistic to think guns can be removed from American society? Absolutely not. Do I think "assault weapons" are the root of all evil - no! Do I think guns should NOT be made available to those with severe mental illness - absolutely! That is the dilemma - how do we prevent that from happening?
Dave L
Terry Oxandale
Skinny Man
Keith, I've listened to a couple of lectures describing studies that validate the desensitization theory. We've got too many kids growing up whose entire social interaction as they grow up is through a joystick, keypad, or monitor.
Kids are the one thing that bring joy to ones soul even when they are others children.
Karen and I have been talking to our 12 and 13 year olds about this tonight....whilst hugging and kissing them ....its truly heartbreaking.
Such a real tragedy and it leaves a wound that will never heal for many....
Karen and I have been talking to our 12 and 13 year olds about this tonight....whilst hugging and kissing them ....its truly heartbreaking.
Such a real tragedy and it leaves a wound that will never heal for many....
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
Well said Fran I think we should give our kids a group hug and our neighbours kids as well.
As for video games I do think they feature too much extreme violence, those of you who remember compare the blood and gore on todays games to the Lone Ranger and Gunsmoke.
At the end of the day supervise what your kids do and be aware of what they are watching on the computer and social media.
And give them a hug from me.:cry::cry::cry:
P.S. lock up your guns and put the ammo and magazine in a separate place.
As for video games I do think they feature too much extreme violence, those of you who remember compare the blood and gore on todays games to the Lone Ranger and Gunsmoke.
At the end of the day supervise what your kids do and be aware of what they are watching on the computer and social media.
And give them a hug from me.:cry::cry::cry:
P.S. lock up your guns and put the ammo and magazine in a separate place.
My heart goes out to all the families, friends and workers impacted by events such as these... The loss of ones child to illness or accident is tragic - but the loss due to an outright murder is just totally unconscionable..
I think you are right Al. And as far as the experts saying that there is no link - well - I frankly think they are full of crap..
My wife works in the schools and she sees bad things all the time. Kids emulating their bad-ass rapper heroes, emulating movie star thug roles, etc..
The other administrators and teachers in her current school (high school) are ever vigilant over the actions and words spoken. They have had to adopt a zero-tolerance mentality over any threats etc..
My own son witnessed (tried to stop him) his best friend take his own life upon breaking up with his girlfriend.. Shotgun in his mouth, game over? Not quite ... Many months in therapy and although it's been 5 years now, he still has nightmares.. His friend used to kid around (was it kidding?) about taking his own life "then she'd be sorry.." He'd say.... My son told me that this type of talk is not out of the norm for today's youth.. He's 29 now as a point of reference..
I think you are right Al. And as far as the experts saying that there is no link - well - I frankly think they are full of crap..
My wife works in the schools and she sees bad things all the time. Kids emulating their bad-ass rapper heroes, emulating movie star thug roles, etc..
The other administrators and teachers in her current school (high school) are ever vigilant over the actions and words spoken. They have had to adopt a zero-tolerance mentality over any threats etc..
My own son witnessed (tried to stop him) his best friend take his own life upon breaking up with his girlfriend.. Shotgun in his mouth, game over? Not quite ... Many months in therapy and although it's been 5 years now, he still has nightmares.. His friend used to kid around (was it kidding?) about taking his own life "then she'd be sorry.." He'd say.... My son told me that this type of talk is not out of the norm for today's youth.. He's 29 now as a point of reference..
Randy,
So sorry to hear about your son's experience. There's no way to fully heal from that I believe, it's too traumatic.
Your point about his friend "kidding around" is key. Nearly 95% of the mass murder perpetrators talk, boast, kid about exactly what they end up doing. It's a failure to recognize and act on this by friends/relatives/bosses/school that is a lost opportunity. It is, of course, challenging to act when a crime hasn't been committed yet.
I've lived in 2 towns when mass murders were committed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Gene_Simmons
University of Iowa shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
One of my classmates was paralyzed from the waste down during the Iowa City shooting in 1991. I had sort of blocked them out but this shooting in Connecticut has really disturbed me. Maybe because I have a 6yo too....
So sorry to hear about your son's experience. There's no way to fully heal from that I believe, it's too traumatic.
Your point about his friend "kidding around" is key. Nearly 95% of the mass murder perpetrators talk, boast, kid about exactly what they end up doing. It's a failure to recognize and act on this by friends/relatives/bosses/school that is a lost opportunity. It is, of course, challenging to act when a crime hasn't been committed yet.
I've lived in 2 towns when mass murders were committed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Gene_Simmons
University of Iowa shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
One of my classmates was paralyzed from the waste down during the Iowa City shooting in 1991. I had sort of blocked them out but this shooting in Connecticut has really disturbed me. Maybe because I have a 6yo too....
I think everyone should be disturbed.
The fallout from these things last for years and in fact never even rises to the surface for many years in some cases. PTSD is most relevant and likely to occur if a violent event happens where you feel most safe and are in some kind of control of your environment. Where safer than a kids school? In theory anyway.
In Afghanistan you have those assholes shooting children for wanting an education.In the Western world you have people shooting children just because they hate the world.
I am very much afraid that these innocent families will be scarred for life and my heart goes out to them because I have been in a similar situation.
Every decent person should get angry and try to find solutions to this increasing crisis (these events are happening closer together) and not act like those two wankers on another thread here taking cheap political shots at each other...
We need to urgently fix this. Our society is to blame - it has to be.
The fallout from these things last for years and in fact never even rises to the surface for many years in some cases. PTSD is most relevant and likely to occur if a violent event happens where you feel most safe and are in some kind of control of your environment. Where safer than a kids school? In theory anyway.
In Afghanistan you have those assholes shooting children for wanting an education.In the Western world you have people shooting children just because they hate the world.
I am very much afraid that these innocent families will be scarred for life and my heart goes out to them because I have been in a similar situation.
Every decent person should get angry and try to find solutions to this increasing crisis (these events are happening closer together) and not act like those two wankers on another thread here taking cheap political shots at each other...
We need to urgently fix this. Our society is to blame - it has to be.
Dave Lindemann
Lifetime Supporter
Keith - Very well said. Something has to change - we as a society can't allow something like this to happen again....
Dave L
Dave L
Violent video games have no affect ?
I remember reading about target practice and soldiers . Went something like ... WW1 , soldiers trained to shoot at bulls eye style targets , and a large percentage had trouble killing the enemy until they felt mortally in danger , i.e. didn't aim even to hit the person shooting at them , wasting ammo .
By WW2 troops were trained to shoot at silhouette targets and a lower percentage had issues .
Then came pop-up targets , then projection simulation rooms , then computer based simulations , and each time more and more soldiers found it easier to kill the enemy right out of the box .
Then the company that developed the computer simulation decided to capitalize on its simulation software , and they are perfectly safe for our kids to play .
Then there is all the publicity and " fame " the TV gives these selfish acts !
Everyone seems to be self absorbed in their little electronic worlds , and never learn to socialize or cope within the real world , or even with them selfs . The parents and the kids !
No one can accept responsibility for them selfs , because their not taught it , their not shown it in their family life . And if it is happening around them they don't see because they are starring at a screen , they don't hear because they are using ear buds with the volume to loud . And a home life simulation wouldn't be cool would it ?
The parent like it that way so they aren't bothered while they play with their devices .
I'm not saying that they shouldn't be allowed , It's fun to do what you know is wrong , in a simulation . But you first have to know what is wrong !
Family Values , Respect For Self And Others , Self Control not learned , thats whats wrong . Not a medical or psychological trouble , those would be cop outs by the politically correct scared of being sued or persecuted if they point a finger in the direction of real cause .
I remember reading about target practice and soldiers . Went something like ... WW1 , soldiers trained to shoot at bulls eye style targets , and a large percentage had trouble killing the enemy until they felt mortally in danger , i.e. didn't aim even to hit the person shooting at them , wasting ammo .
By WW2 troops were trained to shoot at silhouette targets and a lower percentage had issues .
Then came pop-up targets , then projection simulation rooms , then computer based simulations , and each time more and more soldiers found it easier to kill the enemy right out of the box .
Then the company that developed the computer simulation decided to capitalize on its simulation software , and they are perfectly safe for our kids to play .
Then there is all the publicity and " fame " the TV gives these selfish acts !
Everyone seems to be self absorbed in their little electronic worlds , and never learn to socialize or cope within the real world , or even with them selfs . The parents and the kids !
No one can accept responsibility for them selfs , because their not taught it , their not shown it in their family life . And if it is happening around them they don't see because they are starring at a screen , they don't hear because they are using ear buds with the volume to loud . And a home life simulation wouldn't be cool would it ?
The parent like it that way so they aren't bothered while they play with their devices .
I'm not saying that they shouldn't be allowed , It's fun to do what you know is wrong , in a simulation . But you first have to know what is wrong !
Family Values , Respect For Self And Others , Self Control not learned , thats whats wrong . Not a medical or psychological trouble , those would be cop outs by the politically correct scared of being sued or persecuted if they point a finger in the direction of real cause .
"Family Values , Respect For Self And Others , Self Control not learned , thats whats wrong . Not a medical or psychological trouble , those would be cop outs by the politically correct scared of being sued or persecuted if they point a finger in the direction of real cause."
EXACTLY RIGHT!
EXACTLY RIGHT!
Thats right, it not that every nut job is armed to the teeth, it must be the video games.
Most people I know are armed to the teeth , Loaded for Bear , with a back up for Elephants ! And not all of them are nut jobs , no more than I am for having as many cars , motorcycles , tools and supplies as I do . A hobby is good !
Not the point .
These same people were raised with home values , respect for the weapons , and anything they target , and most - not all - brought up with a respect for life . Some just like to hear the gun go off and little critters beware .
And you never know some one in the group might do something as stupid as we have witnessed , but I find it unlikely .
On the other hand , you hand a kid a game to keep them busy , so you can be self involved . And you don't teach any thing to them , or even try to reason reality and fantasy with them . And then you want to say there is a mental problem when the same kid picks up a real weapon - because its available , or by any means - and does this kind of thing .
YOU ARE WHAT YOU EAT !
And while the games are doing exactly what they were designed to do , Ignorant PARENTS are feeding these kids , and /or them selves , this stuff , and saying its just entertainment . And while maybe the Parents get the difference , the kids haven't been taught to handle , and use weapons in a responsible manner . And haven't been reprimanded for randomly killing little critters .
It all makes a difference .
Dr. Spock may be more to blame , not punishing kids , and those kids have kids there to distracted or busy to pay attention to .
So I hope it wasn't taken that I was saying video games are the trouble , just part of it .
Its that the world has no social skills , no real life coping mechanisms , and no self respect , so acting out what you've learned is all you can do !
How easy is it to tame a wild animal ? Not as easy as it is to raise one from birth !
There is no medication that will take the place of raising you children to respect them selfs and others . But that won't stop well meaning do gooders from trying to .
People please try to use common since , stop trying to blame others . When ever you think there is a problem and something has to change , look in the mirror . Most of the time the place to start is starring back at you .
Not the point .
These same people were raised with home values , respect for the weapons , and anything they target , and most - not all - brought up with a respect for life . Some just like to hear the gun go off and little critters beware .
And you never know some one in the group might do something as stupid as we have witnessed , but I find it unlikely .
On the other hand , you hand a kid a game to keep them busy , so you can be self involved . And you don't teach any thing to them , or even try to reason reality and fantasy with them . And then you want to say there is a mental problem when the same kid picks up a real weapon - because its available , or by any means - and does this kind of thing .
YOU ARE WHAT YOU EAT !
And while the games are doing exactly what they were designed to do , Ignorant PARENTS are feeding these kids , and /or them selves , this stuff , and saying its just entertainment . And while maybe the Parents get the difference , the kids haven't been taught to handle , and use weapons in a responsible manner . And haven't been reprimanded for randomly killing little critters .
It all makes a difference .
Dr. Spock may be more to blame , not punishing kids , and those kids have kids there to distracted or busy to pay attention to .
So I hope it wasn't taken that I was saying video games are the trouble , just part of it .
Its that the world has no social skills , no real life coping mechanisms , and no self respect , so acting out what you've learned is all you can do !
How easy is it to tame a wild animal ? Not as easy as it is to raise one from birth !
There is no medication that will take the place of raising you children to respect them selfs and others . But that won't stop well meaning do gooders from trying to .
People please try to use common since , stop trying to blame others . When ever you think there is a problem and something has to change , look in the mirror . Most of the time the place to start is starring back at you .
