R C R Nemesis

[Dan]

a street legal option would be great.......as long as it does not effect the performance potential of the car on the track.

[Fran Hall RCR]

Doc,

my point exactly...but having the option to engineer the car to give the enterprising individual the option , after the fact, is my thought process...

...maybe I should leave it well alone and maintain the original design brief... of
"budget conscious track car"

[Doug Sainlar]

Originally Posted by foryorent

a street legal option would be great.......as long as it does not effect the performance potential of the car on the track.

There are those of us who would love to have a lightweight car of this nature for street and road use, without ever having any aspirations of racing it.

Fran is right, IMHO, if he can engineer in the infrastructure to allow this car to easily be made street legal, should the builder so desire, I suspect that would open up a whole different market for this model and still not adversely effect the track potential of the car.

My projected retirement home is in a very remote area of the U.S. the nearest McDonald's is 32 relatively traffic free highway-only miles away, I'd sure like to be able to make that drive in one of these....on the highway, not the dirt back-roads.

Another plus is that this could become a very interesting entry-level "kit car" for those of us who feel we need to complete a simpler kit before tackling one of the more involved kits. Sometimes all we need to make the plunge is a bit of confidence and there's no better way to build confidence than success....this kit looks as if it could be made so that assembly would be rather straightforward and it would need no complex cooling or A/C type systems.

Just curious, I've heard of these Hayabusa motors for a long time, how much ($$) do they run on the used market and how readily available are they?

Doug

[J. Salmon]

Originally Posted by foryorent

a street legal option would be great.......as long as it does not effect the performance potential of the car on the track.

If you home build it, can't you make virtually anything street legal? I am quickly coming to the conclusion that anything REALLY designed for the track (purpose built race car) may be street legal, but either isn't going to be pleasant to drive, or is not going to be near full potential for the track.

As others have said, the SL-R seems so much better suited to combo use, with an OEM automobile driveline. Why mess with a good thing trying to tack on lights and fenders and all the crap to meet DOT for a single seat open wheel race car? I would want a no-compromise approach. Cheap to buy, cheap to drive, light to trailer, small to store and work on, scary scary fast. It's like a grown-up shifter kart!


Fran, tomorrow is D-day with the Lola. Pretty spooked, but excited. I'll let you know how it goes.

[Doc Kaler]

Doug,

The engines run about $2000 - $2500 used.

[Doug Sainlar]

Originally Posted by CANTDRIVE55

Doug,

The engines run about $2000 - $2500 used.

Thanks, Doc.....that's an acceptable price range for me. Does that include the transmission, too, or is it just the engine? If necessary, how much more for the transmission?

Doug

[Doc Kaler]

Doug,

Some are complete with transmission, some even with ECU/harnesses. You can find them on eBay, usually several listed at a time.

[Fran Hall RCR]

The Hayabusa , like all modern motorcycles has a unit construction..meaning the transmission is part of the crankcase, so there is no need to buy anything other than a "karkit/carkit" which is how the bike engines are described by many sellers, they normally include intake and ECU/harness.....serious bang for the buck...

[Paul Thompson 'Hooligan']

Looks very nice Fran - should be a blast.

For road option (and occasionally track ) a Reverse gear would be useful, do you have plans for such a facility? I know there are diff-kits with a reverse selector option out there but it all costs extra normally...

[Fran Hall RCR]

Electric reverse...as an option

[Craig Gillingham]

the stop watch will sell this car...not cupholders...(but you get my point)

let the home builder sort out his own compromise to make it a track car and a road going vehicle...

so its carry on with the original concept..... IMHO.

[Grant]

As someone looking at Radical SR3s, I'd love a more "streetable" option (though I really don't think I'll drive it on the street much, it would be fun now and then). Radical recommends up to 100mm of ride height, which would be plenty if it wasn't for the long nose and splitter. If this car is as cheap as Fran indicated and could be run with NASA, I'd hold off on getting a Radical... A 'busa powered car like this could be a lot cheaper and lighter than the SCCA's Formula Enterprise cars.

But its an open-wheeled car, so its inherently streetable, isn't it? Just raise it up a bit to keep the chassis from scraping over speed bumps and the like, and I'd think you'd be good to go? I'd think you could just have a set of taller wheels and tires for the street, which would raise the car up without altering the alignment or geometry. This is something you can't really do with a Radical because the bodywork doesn't accomidate much taller tires.

A full-on DSR-style body doesn't seem to be in the works for the smaller RCRs, but maybe someone will develop a front and rear wing package? It would be really cool if the chassis was built to easily accomidate those additions. Anyone know what the aero properties of cycle fenders are, when compared to normal open wheels?

BTW Fran, the new 1340cc 12.5:1 'busa engines are putting down like 180whp on dynojets.

[Donnie Barnes]

Just curious on something...why an electric reversion option instead of using something like the Quaiffe diff that has a mechanical reverse? I'm guessing cost, though I wonder if the complexity doesn't go up.

The cars used in the stunt show at MGM in Paris and Orlando by Disney are custom built tube frame cars that use motorcycle powerplants and a mechanical reversing diff (presumably the Quaiffe as that's the only one I know of on the market...are there others?). The shifter is a normal automotive style sequential lever with the exception of having a T handle on top. Twist the T 90 degrees to go from forward to reverse. They need something like this for the stunt show because they have times where they are going 30+ MPH forward and flick the car into a 180, hit reverse, and continue on at the same speed backwards. They have custom gearing so they're probably in third gear or so at that kind of speed, and with the reversing diff like that they just stay in the same gear in the transmission and just reverse the diff.

Pretty neat stuff. They were so skilled at what they were doing it made me want to learn more actual stunt driving skills. To what end, I have no idea. Throwing a car into a parallel parking space would be kind of cool, though.


--Donnie

[Doug Sainlar]

Originally Posted by Craig7L

let the home builder sort out his own compromise to make it a track car and a road going vehicle...
so its carry on with the original concept..... IMHO.

You know, Craig, I could agree with this, as well as the suggestion that the SL-R fills this niche, if it weren't for the price point issue.

IMHO, what we (the kit car entry market) need is a simple to construct, very economical automobile. Super7's are that, but they are front drive, and being water cooled they will obviously be more involved.

Making the Nemesis road-build capable might involve no more than a few threaded holes in the frame, or a few gussets in the right place, where a first time kit builder could mount lights, etc. without having to attempt "surgeries" for which we are unprepared. Those few simple additions to the current kit format might make that possible for those of us who aren't ready for fabrication, etc........and give us an opportunity for a road-ready rear/mid-engined car at a price point that would not break the bank if we were to find the process too intimidating or involved.

Just my $.02, worth, which in these hard economic times doesn't seem to be worth much.....

Doug

[Girf]

Originally Posted by YerDugliness

IMHO, what we (the kit car entry market) need is a simple to construct, very economical automobile. Super7's are that, but they are front drive, and being water cooled they will obviously be more involved.

I can't help but think that you just described the SL-R. In fact I am hard pressed to think of another mid engined, open topped and single seat car that was actively marketed as a road car. I have to wonder if there really is a market for it at all.

-Open top
-Mid-engine
-Single seat
-Road car
-for people with imited fabrication abilities

seams to be a very narrow niche indeed.

Ultimately, are we are talking about is a few lines of code for the CNC at the time of chassis fabrication? If so then no big deal, and it would be short sighted not to at least consider it. But i suspect the "road car" part is a lot less about the mounting points then the wiring and interfaces. That will require resources that seems to defeat the purpose of this car.

[Doug Sainlar]

Originally Posted by Girf

I can't help but think that you just described the SL-R.

It's the price point issue--the SLR will be in the same general price range as the lower price Cobra kits......perhaps less involved in the build process, but at approximately the same price range.

There are those of us on this forum who have automotive mechanical experience, but have never attempted a kit project. To consider investing over $14K in a project/process that we are not sure we would even enjoy, much less feel comfortable we can complete, is difficult. For me it would be a much easier decision to make at the price point of the Nemesis--IMHO the mounting points for the required street-legal additions might not add substantially to the price of the kit (particularly if they are as simple as adding a few lines of CNC code) and the other issues, such as more involved wiring harnesses or systems interfaces, could also be offered as low cost as options, much as the aforementioned electric reverse.

Agreed--this isn't really the original concept for this car, but if Fran is truly still in the concept development stage, there is still time to include additions. It does represent to me a way to market this project to a whole different focus group. That might be a good choice for Fran..........but, having said that, I realize Fran is a former racer, and there is probably a soft spot in his heart for a purpose-built racer-only project such as this.......all I can say is thank goodness for Fran , there are very few, if any, in this field with his vision and ability to bring multiple original projects to the market!

Oh, yeah, Fran, if you're keeping track of the votes, allow me to mention that I prefer the first styling exercise, too, regardless of whether you chose to offer a streetable option or not!

Doug

[Doc Kaler]

Doug,

No offense to the Cobra replica crowd because the car is truly awesome BUT, the most popular complete kit manufacturer sells at $19,900 not including a donor car for suspension parts etc. Fran's cars include newly designed and manufactured parts to make up his "kits". It is amazing that he can offer a little track car for the price he does and I'll bet it's more enjoyable to start with all new parts than disassembling an old donor, finding problems with the donor parts along the way, solving those problems before you even start assembling your kit, IMHO. I know, some people want the experience and that's fine and they can build an awesome roadster (two seater, open top, streetable, etc).

So I believe that the price-point of the SL-R will be very close to that of the popular Cobra replicas and the Nemesis will be much less. Why not start with a little track car and take it to the track for fun?

[Jonathan S]

Doc, if you are referring to Factory Five, their complete kit does not require donor suspension parts. It only requires engine, transmission, wheels, and tires. You do have the price correct though. Their donor kit is $12,990.

[Jim Rosenthal]

I think the Legends track cars use Hayabusa engines... very quick, light, lots of power.

[Fran Hall RCR]

Legends originally used Yamaha FJ1200 engines...they may have changed by now though....as the FJ is a little long in the tooth..