Track day warning

Bit of a heads up for you guys who do track days. The BBC are reporting a 59 year old Ferrari driver died and his passenger was seriously injured in an accident at the Goodwood circuit yesterday afternoon. Story doesn't say what kind of Ferrari it was - or whether it was taking part in an official track day etc...

But there ARE dangers in taking to the circuits. I often wonder whether the marshalling/medical back-up is as good at track days as opposed to race meetings.

I was at a kart meeting last year when two karts touched. One dived off the track, up the spectator banking and sailed over our heads into a car parking area on the other sides. I felt like holding up score cards for style and execution! Luckily, apart from a sore back, the driver was unhurt.

JP's recent experience when his Ferrari caught fire is another near miss that springs to mind.

I don't want to be a wet blanket but take care out there!

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take care out there!

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Well said, Ken.

Here's the link to the BBC story web page which only has the briefest of details.

It's a stark reminder to all of us that things can go wrong on track, and that the consequences can be more serious than a bent car and damaged pride..... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Everyone's aim needs to be to get home safely at the end of the day - nothing else matters.

Charles

IMHO, I'd rather be at the track any day of the week than on the freeway. the track is much much safer.
But driving beyond your limits anywhere can and invariably does, lead to tears.
But if I am going to lose it, give me the track every time.

Dito Pete,
If you are serious about your safety on the road, then you will spend as much time on the track as possible. There is NO substitute to understanding a car and its limitations. And it is much much better to find these limits with an open paddock in your windscreen than a fully laden truck. There are studies that support this too.

A sad loss for those who knew the driver, let's hope the passenger recovers ok.....
.
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It also however highlights how the media associated with motor circuits/track days etc will eventually bring the closure of such facilities and with ever stricter noise restrictions etc it cannot be too long before a ban is proposed..or even speed limits imposed (god forbid!).

I also wonder how many accidents occur either en-route or when departing from such events..... all of which go either unreported, or reported but apparently 'unrelated'.

Obviously NO ACCIDENTS AT ALL is preferable, but should I expire in a car, I would prefer it on a track, with me enjoying myself and involving NO other vehicles or persons.

I agree with all the above comments. I was just highlighting that it CAN be dangerous.

In fact I am a firm believer in honing your skills somewhere safe, which is what I use the Pro-kart for. I encouraged my sons to take up kart racing before they could take to the roads, and because they proved good at it, when they eventually got a licence they didn't feel they had anything to prove to the local boy racers...

A good illustration a few years ago when I was travelling back from Spain with my sons. Ben was just 17 and I insured him on my car to help with the driving. Coming back through France it was about 2 am on the autoroute and wet. Ben was knocking on a bit - about 90 to 100 mph - when a car ahead drifted into his (outside lane) - driver probably fell asleep at the wheel. Ben had to scrub off a bit of speed and touched the brakes. I woke to find myself staring at the barrier as we went down the road sideways. But he didn't freeze up, and that's the point. He used the skills he had learnt on the kart to catch the slide beautifully, and we carried on without mishap - didn't even have to change my underpants!

As to your point about the media Paul I suppose I should fess up here and confess I have been a journalist for more than 30 years working on national newspapers and currently in tv news. I have not detected any media campaign against track days - but you wouldn't really expect the death at Goodwood to go unreported either would you? The Beeb have just reported the facts - there is no suggestion of any bias against track days that I can see... After all you need to be informed of the facts to make your own judgement don't you? I know I do!

Nuff said...

Hi Ken

I'm not suggesting there is a media campaign against Motor circuits, just that when reported, its brings to the attention of insurance companies etc the probability of injury, whereas a road accident is seen as 'an accident'.

I'm probably not explaining myself very well, but if you consider the number of people injured or killed every day on our public roads, you'd think there would be a ban on the motor car itself. - but no - I'm just trying to make the point that when you hear of such an accident at a circuit, a tragic loss, but still an accident, i'm sure it goes on to fuel the fire for banning track-days altogether... Lets hope that never happens. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Even on a race track there is no shortage of drivers eager to exceed their own capabilities or those of the car.

Paul, maybe jumping tp conclusions, if the driver suffered a major physical trauma, say a heart attack, it could happen anywhere and not be attributable to the fact that he was on the track. Frank

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Paul, maybe jumping tp conclusions,

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I am not drawing any conclusion from the afforementioned incident at Goodwood - any incident that causes injury or damage is unfortunate, regrettable and sometimes possibly avoidable. This applies whether one is driving on public roads or on a track. The main difference being that at least on a track you do not generally have to allow for the stupidity of other 'road' users, or pedestrians stepping out, or side roads etc etc.

I have found that my own driving ability has generally improved (I hope) through my driving experiences on both track days and from competetive events and it has also quite literally taken away the urge to drive excessively fast whilst journeying on normal public roads.

Getting back to the point first mentioned by Ken - Track Days can be dangerous, you generally drive faster than usual and over-confidence can easily catch you out, at which point, the faster you are travelling, the more likely you are to sustain injury or damage. I know Frank studied case examples relating to 'track-day' incidents when planning our own club events previously (especially in consideration of the prerequisite insurances we required) and no, you cannot rule out the possibility of someone having a heart attack - but a track is still a safer place to have such an incident than a public road. You should'nt be able to plough into other bystanders and medical attention is generally no more than 120 seconds away.

As my final note - TrackDays are fun - you can acquire and develop skills that could not (and should not) be attempted on normal open roads and better understand both your vehicles handling/capability and hopefully realise your own limit of ability. I have no problem with the reporting of incidents, I just feel they hightlight the danger of trackdays to people who possibly are unlikely to ever take part and those that do anyway are generally made well aware of the risks before venturing out onto track (whether they take notice or not)..

Any driver who properly prepares his car and himself to drive on a track will have a great day out. However you can never discount exceptional bad luck (regular bad luck can be reduced by proper preparation) or medical failure of the driver.

I find wet track days are very useful too as you find the limits that much earlier on and at lower speeds. I agree with the guys above, since having played on tracks and Hill Climbs etc, my fast drivng on the roads has virtually disappeared. Once even my Mum told me to get a bl**dy move on!

I suspect that insurance premiums will kill track days before journalists. That or circuit owners hiking fees up too much.

Bit more info about the death at Goodwood. The driver was on a supercar course with an instructor, who was the passenger who was injured. He was not as badly hurt as feared and has been released from hospital. The Ferrari was a 360 Challenge car.

In a forum such as this, I suspect that there are a good percentage of people who understand the true nature of motorsport and its benefits. I guess Ken's comment (please correct me if I am wrong Ken) is just a timely reality check for those who may have let their guard down momentarily, and on that basis this post is appropriately placed. My earlier comment did not take this perspective into account, so my apologies to Ken on that.

However, having said that, the greater community has a very poor understanding of the overall benefits of motorsport and generally sees it as a pastime best left alone. Those of us who know better should make an effort do expose this myth whenever the opportunity arises. Driving on the road is by far the most dangerous thing that any of us will ever do and on that basis, becoming better drivers is truly a matter of life-and-death.

Chris,

You are, no doubt, spot on.

To all,

I was talking recently with someone who is well acquainted with racing. He had some very unkind words about the situation at Goodwood. Now he may have been speaking specifically to the annual Goodwood event and not Goodwood in general. His comment was that he had friends who were taking some very valuable vintage cars there to race them which he just could not understand because of what he saw as a real danger to the car's and the driver's well being because of several factors.

Never having been there and, yet, valuing this man's opinion, I must ask if there are inherent dangers at Goodwood that should be brought to the attention of anyone contemplating competition there?

Regards,
Lynn

A very sad situation.A similar accident happened at a Phillip Island track day a couple of years ago, a BMW M3 owner was out with an instructor,Hit the wall and the instructor was in hospital for 6 months but driver ok (thankfully).My take on this is - Well heeled individual buys potent/exotic car and decides to put it through it's paces on the track.He does not yet (or never will) have the talent to control the car at the speeds it can attain.He pays $80 for his CAMS license, buys a helmet,drivers suit(red or same colour as the car)shoes,fire extinguisher and off he goes with no ability checks whatsoever.I for one will not get in to instruct these guys from the passenger seat.Believe it or not these guys slip through the net and get to race in our category and it's not easy to get a C4 license at my level.Two guys with Ferraris one with no talent at all (meriallargo)or whatever you call it.Both these guys off the track more than they are on.I say it's not the car.When racing you try and stay clear of them(not always easy).So to sum up I see the track day situation as high risk and all drivers should have to prove ability before being able to present themselves with a high powered car, exactly as it should be on the road too.
Ross

Aparently this forum didn't know Ben Keaton who died along with his passenger a couple of weeks ago in a track day while driving his Carrera GT.

Any vehicle on a race track is subject to total destruction at any time and the occupants can be killed or maimed at any time.

Pretend this isn't true or ignore it at your peril.

Did not no of him until his unfortunate accident, but by the read on the Porsche forum he was highly regarded as a dear friend to many and will be dearly missed. Not to mention he was an accomplished driver as well.

Jim Clark, Ayrton Senna, Lex Davidson, all very talented,
all tragically no longer with us, plus many, many more.
All forms of motor racing are dangerous. So is driving to the local supermarket. So are track days.Life is bloody deadly, no one survives it! Pack into it as much as you can kiddies and do not die wondering.

Lynn

Goodwood is a great circuit but it does not have massive run off areas. This situation was made worse by the local authority insisting on banks being built in such a way as to reduce noise pollution. This ate up some of the previous run off space. However clearly the track must comply with current standards or it would not get its license to operate particularly for the Goodwood Revival.

The Ferrari driver who died, regretably was not the first nor will he be the last, however much we all want it to be. That is the nature of the beast.

As to your freinds comments, cars are meant to be driven and are not static displays. A number of the Revival drivers also drove in period. One could say that they choose the risk back in period and again choose to take the risk in the current era. Is it fair to say your freind will never drive a period (or current) car on track? If so he will be missing an experience worth having.

I had a fellow countryman of yours with me at Donnington recently. Before we went there I showed him some low resolution video if the circuit from the web. He said that he felt there was little run off as he could read the writing on the advertising banners. At Goodwood he would have been able to count the stitches!

In competition you must have 100% faith in your equipement. If not why are you there? On a track day you can build up that faith slowly. The cars don't drive themselves, it is the driver who puts that car where it is and at the speed it is at any given time. Driver self discipline is paramount. I think the run off at Fordwater is miniscule for what could be the fastest part of the circuit. Nowadays I do a confidence lift there. Hey ho.

I think what Ross says is also important. If you don't rate the driver or their car, don't get in!

Lastly I think that Nasa Racer Pete's valid, if brutal, comment about total destruction of car and driver at any time equally applies to road driving. Perhaps more road drivers ignore that than track drivers!

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Pack into it as much as you can kiddies and do not die wondering.

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Couldn't agree more Pete, and us track guys are just plain wimps compared to the rally fraternity /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Regards