Giving GT40s a bad name?

On Piston Heads there has been a discussion about track days with regard to overcrowding and poor driving in which mention is made of a GT40. The bit that got my goat is when the GT40 was lumped in with slow cars such as the Ford Fiesta!!!!!!!! That is stooping low.

I have no gripes with anyone wishing to look after their pride and joy on track and their not wishing to bend it or stone chip it etc. However reading between the lines and from my own experience as a track day regular, it seems said car was driving exceptionally poorly/slowly and not using the mirrors causing mucho grief to the cars behind! No excuse not to use mirrors and I would not accept the excuse that a 40 has bad rear vision to justify not seeing a huge gaggle of cars behind!

I don't know whose car this was or who was driving it (I believe it to be a Gulf coloured car but not mine or even Charles's as I would even credit him with being able to go faster than this) so if you know who this guy was, could someone please have a quiet word in his ear and ask him to try a little bit of throttle application and use the bl***y mirrors. We don't want GT40s to be stereotyped into being cars that others hope to avoid seeing on track days.

Rant over, nomex on!

You sure someone wasn't out and about in yours whilst you were racing over here????? Someone has to fess up!

Ron Earp said:

You sure someone wasn't out and about in yours whilst you were racing over here????? Someone has to fess up!

Click to expand...

So Ron, thats what you got up to while you had a spare 1/2 day on your last UK trip. And you never even told him!

Jac Mac

It was raining when Ron was over and you know that Amercicans don't like mixing rain and race tracks......

As to the culprit, the regular photo site for Gold track days is at

Fresh Orange Photography Limited

Look at the Donnington event on 24/10/2007. I don't recognise the car but clearly a Gulf coloured car on 17 inch rims. Plated as FNN something?

Hmmmmmm.

Nearly 300 viewings of this thread and so far, no-one coming forward

Just to confirm that it wasn't me - for the record, obviously........

I suspect I know who the driver in question is, but will keep mum for now, just in case I'm wrong.

As usual, Malc is quite correct. There's nothing wrong with being slow, or a beginner, or cautious, or anything else, for that matter. On the other hand, there is definitely something wrong with holding people up, not checking your mirrors and generally upsetting other drivers on a track day :cussing:

Looking at the photos, there seem to be quite a large number of cars queuing up to pass, and there are some choice words on the video that the PH thread links to.

We were all beginners once and I certainly remember how intimidating the first track day or two in a 40 can be. The rearward vision is bad, but not that bad, and if you're slow, you know it and should be using the mirrors as much as you can.

Life is a learning experience and hopefully this driver will take a lesson from the PH comments (and Malcolm's). There are plenty of guys in the GTD40 Club who would be willing to give guidance or advice and obviously, there are tame instructors out there who would be more than happy to help......

I for one wouldn't like to see any '40 owner not enjoying his car on track. It's more fun than polishing them, that's for sure

Charles

jac mac said:

So Ron, thats what you got up to while you had a spare 1/2 day on your last UK trip. And you never even told him!

Jac Mac

Click to expand...

I have driven Donnington in Malcolm's GT40........but that wasn't me this time! I must have missed something on that website. I didn't see a Gulf 40 there.

Ron

try this one......

Fresh Orange Photography Limited

edit....
Seem to have posted same time as Charles! We both need more to do at work!

Ron Earp said:

. I didn't see a Gulf 40 there.

Click to expand...

Ron,

Go to
Fresh Orange Photography Limited
Goldtrack - Donnington Park - 24 October 2007
and the cars are listed alphabetically - look under Blue Orange.

HTH

Charles

eta: Blast! Beaten to it

Not read the PH thread but could just be the usual pistonheads caring sharing attitude coming through....
Although I'm not be any means saying it representative of all PH members (of which I am one) the cars I have seen on trackdays with PH stickers on have been the worst drviers, maybe not technically but certainly the most discourteous / least observant of track rules and ettiquette.

somebody must give a lesson to all theme....kmon guys, u have so powerful cars (just kidding..)

'As usual, Malc is quite correct. There's nothing wrong with being slow, or a beginner, or cautious, or anything else, for that matter. On the other hand, there is definitely something wrong with holding people up, not checking your mirrors and generally upsetting other drivers on a track day'


Surely this is the resposibility of the organisers on the day, not a witch hunt on this website. Did anyone complain to them? This must happen on all track days.

I know who it is and maybe this is what this thread is all about

Brian.

Knowing the organisers of Gold Track as I do, and I intend one more day with them this year, hopefully this month, I can already hear Melindi pulling my leg about 40s at sign on! Yes, it is up to drivers to take their issues to the organisers and for them to follow any legitimate complaint through. However it is up to each individual driver to use fair and proper driver ettiquette whilst on track. It is made specifically clear at the driver breifing to all and sundry to use mirrors to let quicker cars through. It is not a race so there is no benefit in creating a train of cars. If you let cars through promptly you actually gain because you can then concentrate on what is in front of you and not behind plus no one behind will get frustrated at your holding them up and so try a kamakasi move risking both cars colliding. And if you are concerned about your own cars health then keeping it out of a risk zone has to be good.

Once you have turned into a corner on a race track, that corner is then finished with, even before you get past the apex point. Maybe after the apex if you are a novice. This gives you plenty of time to look in your mirrors which allows you to see comfortably past the rear wheel arches as you are not looking directly behind. Any car lurking becomes instantly visible allowing you to deal with it. If it got close to you before the corner, you can bet your last £ it is quicker than you, so let it past by just delaying 2 seconds on the gas pedal before the straight. Come the next corner that car is gone, leaving you to play with your own braking point and turn in point.

What I want to avoid happening, hence this post, is others thinking of GT40s as I think of, say, Imprezza drivers on track. They can be damn fast cars. But they corner like shopping trolleys. They have to brake so early so I catch them easily. Come the next straight and they hoof it down the straight often pulling away from me and suprise, suprise I am right up their backside at the next corner. Over a lap they are much slower than me and on track days that is the critical issue for letting people past especially as the rules state no overtaking in corners or out braking into corners. The organisers I know specifically refer to this in breifings but it is often ignored and a reputation results.

With regard to Jono's post above, I suspect you are right and there is an element of hypocracy from the PHers involved. Also most likley from me too!

Brian you are right, this sort of thing happens at all track days to some degree or other. At Gold Track days there is a noticeable difference in driver standards between group one and group two. But most 40s are not quick enough on a lap time to be in group two.

This thread is not intended as a witch hunt, apologies if it has come across as such. It is meant more of a tease/constructive criticism to encourage all to drive responsibly on track to avoid the kind of incidents that we all want to avoid.

To roughly repeat what Charles said above, if I am at a track at the same time as you and there is anything you think I could say that may help you, please do ask. You don't have to take advice, but it may help occaisionally. Also if I am doing anything wrong, please tell me, I want to hear it! I always want to better my driving.

Oh, come off it.

There's no witch hunt, Brian. There's no conspiracy and no-one's wearing a tin foil hat.

Did you read the PH thread?

Malc was concerned that the reputation of the gt40 community (of which we're all a part) was in danger of being compromised. That's all.

I wasn't there so can't comment on whether anyone spoke to the organisers but track day drivers to an extent have to be self-regulating. There's individual responsibility as well as the organiser's ........ Sure, this sort of thing happens on all track days to some extent.

It's not a personal attack on anyone or on any group of people. If it's the chap I think, I've bought him lunch a number of times (as he has for me) and would do so again. There's no animosity.

At all.

It's not about who the driver is.

Charles

Eta: Beaten to it again! Malc, don't you do any work?

Charles, you bought someone lunch? :-0

Suggestion:

Many people work many hard hours to complete their GT40s, and can't wait to track the car. Some of those folks get to the track and have never been in a "open track day", so some may be a bit overwhelmed by the event.

My suggestion for anyone that falls into this catagory is to do a track day in a regular car first. By doing that, you are familiar with the controls, mirrors, and the overall handling of the car......that you are comfortable operating. Then when you get into your GT40, it will be less stressed out, and more apt to do the things you should do at open track events.

Just a thought................

[/QUOTE]Look at the Donnington event on 24/10/2007. I don't recognise the car but clearly a Gulf coloured car on 17 inch rims. Plated as FNN something?[/QUOTE]

[/QUOTE]Nearly 300 viewings of this thread and so far, no-one coming forward [/QUOTE]

And this is not a witch hunt?

Brian.

Look at the Donnington event on 24/10/2007. I don't recognise the car but clearly a Gulf coloured car on 17 inch rims. Plated as FNN something?[/QUOTE]

[/QUOTE]Nearly 300 viewings of this thread and so far, no-one coming forward [/QUOTE]

And this is not a witch hunt?

Brian.[/QUOTE]

Of course its a witch hunt, of course there are personalities and issues being very nastily raised. The fact that the driver is very well known to all, and is castgated by inter club rivalries, means that both Malcolm and Charles both know exactly what they are trying to achieve with this post. The other fact is that the driver was, for the whole day, under proffesional instruction by a circuit instructor.

..probably the point is that when u see a SO nice car as gt40 is...all people around wants to see "something special".
Think it is more or less as the fee to pay when someone asks u to take pictures of the car or sit inside it (and is lovely when someone allows u to do it).
Sure..IF u are so lucky to see theme running well, its an INCREDIBLE pleasure and a referring point as the car to beat inside the track (and that can be very dangerous indeed,cause I suspect drive fast a 40 gives the same difficults of the originals 1966 vehicles....)
Under this point of view, there are really no differences between an original car and a replica.

I've also felt the same when I saw in Misano classic a Safir mk5 running not properly as I wanted to see (as the ones i've seen in le mans....keeping away forever my heart before Neway crash..).
Gt40 gives emotion..think is obvious many guys want to see that driven also hardly (a reason more to love kiwi Ross Nicol adventures against Porsches)

Guys, calm down

I repeat, there's no witch hunt, and I think (if it's who I believe it to be) that I've enjoyed several lunches with the guy; there's no hidden agenda in my postings and certainly I'm not trying to be "nasty" on this, a public forum.

Mr. Driver of the car in question, I apologise if I've caused any embarassment to you. Believe me, none was intended.

We all love these cars. Let's get on with the serious business - enjoying them

Charles

Ok, a couple of points here.

Firstly, if you don't like this thread please feel free to show your displeasure by blitzing my rep power score. After all, that is what it is there for.

Secondly, I get well cheesed off by guys in cars on track days who don't use their mirrors. My comments come from sharing the same experience the PHers wrote about. And yes I will make comment to the organisers about it.

Thirdly there was a thread started some time back along the lines of "should I mention to the owner of this car something I have seen that I think could be dangerous, or should I keep quiet?" I think Frank Catt started the thread about the MDA chassis or something, I can't remember. It was acknowledged as a good thread. Clearly that was about safety issues impacting later on when using the car to prevent damage to car and occupants. This thread is to help prevent poor driving on track days so keeping cars and occupants safe. A driving version of that engineering thread if you will.

Fourthly, I am amazed to hear that the driver in question was under professional tuition at the time. I will be emailing Melindi now to draw her attention to this thread so she is aware of what has gone on. Prefessional tuition should encourage use of mirrors and acting upon the information received.

Fifthly, I have just been sent a PM naming the driver with a positive identification. With the way this thread has turned from its original intention, I won't name names. I haven't seen this man for a long long time but am more than happy to discuss my viewpoint with him in an amicable manner when we next meet up, if he is interested. No offence is intended, please continue to do track days, just use your mirrors please!

Brian, this is not a witch hunt. I didn't recognise the car so by describing it I hoped for a message to be passed onto the driver. I would be amazed if he wasn't told of this thread by now! But if you still disagree on this point, please can we agree to disagree amicably?

Frank, I am quite happy to disagree with you in any way you choose!

And finally if I entered my car in a concours competition in its current track used state are you naysayers out there really going to say that no one will comment about how my car doesn't represent the GT40 in the best light? Certainly those that know me will lay into me with relish! Those that don't know me would most likely comment behind my back. Human nature. But then poor concours displays are unlikely to damage other cars or potentially cause injury to other people. Poor driving can cause injury to man and machine.

As an aside, I remember a good while back walking into the Fairmile on an EC meeting night. It went so quiet you could hear the tumbleweed blowing through the bar! Fortunately Roy Snook was there and broke the ice by shouting out "what the f**k are you doing here?" and all was ok after that! I think that was the last time I bumped into the driver in question.

And anyone who now wishes to do a track day and has read this post, I guess they just might remember their mirrors a bit more than if there had been no postings made at all.