Aluminum Engine Runs At World

[Chas]

The prototype 9.5 deck aluminum block was assembled to our “Hardcore” spec and tested extensively. The brief build specs: 427, (4.125 x 4.00) 9.8 compression, solid cam, 4500 carb, World Windsor Sr. aluminum heads (2.08x1.60), pump gas. The iron version is rated at 525HP and they have been pulling 540 to 550HP regularly of late.
This made 560HP at 6300 and 6400 RPM and peaked 527 lbft at 4800. Starting at 3500 RPM it pulled 496lbft and it made over 500lbft from 4000 to 5700RPM.
The contention that aluminum blocks “always lose power” (compared to iron) is disproved here we believe, because of our use of ductile iron sleeves which are inherently stronger than cast iron. All of our aluminum block designs use the ductile sleeves and never show a power deficit to their iron counterparts. This one surprised by making more.
More testing for this block will begin next week with our brand-new 18° 4-bolt and 10° 6-bolt head programs.
Blocks, shorts and complete engines will be available in 8.2 and 9.5 configurations in late July.

[frank beuker]

looks pretty impressive
I've got my engine bolted in for test fitting with my new sump from armando
can't wait until i can start it up

frank

[Chas]

Please post a picture here when you can.

[frank beuker]

HI look at my build frank's kva
Frank

[MikeP]

That's a fine looking motor Chas. The figures are good for twisting gearboxes as well. Roll on the new transaxles - they will be needed. Do you have an assembled weight for the package with the alloy heads versus iron as this will be a major selling point against the iron block 351 based engines. I hope you will be doing some good prices for us impoverished GT40 enthusiasts! Seriously though - that is is nice piece of kit - makes my clunky 302 look pretty sad.
Cheers
Mike

[Chas]

Mike,
You should work here-you've got our next step figured-out, a good marketing plan and you write a pretty nice ad for our stuff
As soon as the next batch of tests concludes, I'll weigh the thing after it's drained and post here. Bill wants it to stay on the dyno and the head swap began today (on the dyno) for the 18 deg, 235 runner. It will run tomorrow. I'm guessing it will weigh about 380 or 390 (our Merlin BBC is 475). Our bare iron 9.5 weighs 223 with billet caps, the 8.2 is 188 and the bare aluminum weighs 108 with billet caps and sleeves. I'm also guessing the new heads will out-flow the current cam (lifts in the 620's and dur. in the 260's) and demand a cam change. Oh, and then we test the 10 deg 285cc "sewer" sized head.
I will definitely push for a member discount program to spur sales and post the results of that. A show of interest when we're closer to release can do wonders.
Finally, thanks for the kind words.

[Jack Dunn]

Chas, 2 questions:
1) Are the 18 & 10 degree heads you mention CHI designed? When will they(and your engines using them) be available?
2) What about the notion that all aluminum block street engines leak oil?

Thanks,
Jack

[Chas]

Jack,
No, the 18 and 10 degree heads are ours, designed in-house with our CAD system and Bill Mitchell who was the originator of the 6-bolt attachment 4 years ago with our iron Man O'War SBF. These are the first and currently only Windsor-style heads to use the LS7/C5R style port designs.
Our 460 Limited Edition Cleveland has been available since late last year and was announced here on GT40's. Those are the CHI's which Jon designed with Kaase's input and which won the '06 Engine Masters Challenge held here at World.
You can see them, the Limited Edition engines and our own new heads by visiting the sites in my sig and clicking the appropriate product pages and the "What's new" button.
That's my ERA and Bill's 33 Coupe on each homepage.
As far as aluminum engine troubles:We build, sell and warranty approximately 30% of the 450 engines per year that go out of here in aluminum. We have zero claims for porosity and/or leakage of either fluid from our castings. Remember-these are our own castings, not reworked OE's. Our QC is thorough and assembly is meticulous. Plus we run every one of them to max power on the dyno in the first 1/2 hour of their lives. If they're built right and come from quality castings, aluminum engines have no leak issues in race or street use. It's just not our experience to have them be problematic.

[Jim]

Chas, can that 9.5 deck height be cut down to 9.2 Cleveland height?

[Chas]

Ron,
I may be as old as your Dad and clearly remember where Fix It Again Tony came from...Talk about leaks...

[Ron Earp]

Originally Posted by jd3

2) What about the notion that all aluminum block street engines leak oil?

Thanks,
Jack

This myth has been discussed on the forum before. If true, then there are literally 10s of millions of engines in the US that should be pouring oil on the streets nowadays and they are badged Toyota, Nissan, Mazda, and even GM and Ford these days.

I think the origins of the myth come from early engine designs that had issues with oiling pooling in poor places and bad seals, and happened to be made from aluminum. A prime example of this, and an engine I've had a few of, is the Lotus 9XX series - it's gonna leak no matter what but it isn't because it is made of aluminum. It's just a bad design with bad seals.

Seems some folks older than myself (like my dad for instance as a gear head himself in the 60s and 70s and around that period when ally engines started to become something not only found in Ferraris) certainly think ally engines leak oil. I remember when I got my first set of ally heads for a 5L I was driving the first thing he said was "oh, you won't like that, it's going to leak and burn oil". Fortunately, he was wrong that time....but not wrong many other times!

Ron

[Chas]

Jim,
You don't have to cut one down, we have discontinued our 9.2 block due to lack of demand but we have , I think, about 9 left in inventory. In fact the boys from Idaho that finished fifth in the EMC used one.
The 9.2's and our 9.5's have the 2.749 main. We use the 3" main in our 460 crates (9.5) because that is the journal size of the 4.250 forged Eagle crank we use.

[Mark Worthington]

How much does it weigh? Longblock? Shortblock? Block?

[Steve Briscoe]

Originally Posted by Manowar

I will definitely push for a member discount program to spur sales and post the results of that. A show of interest when we're closer to release can do wonders.

Chas -
I'm definitely interested. Please post flow test numbers on the heads when you get them. These products are cool - Thanks!

Steve

[Chas]

Mark,
In post #6 I discussed weights we have. I made a typo on the 9.5 iron bare: it's 213 not 223. We don't weigh longs or shorts but as stated, I'll weigh the complete engine when it comes off the pump and post.
Steve,
I think these heads only had preliminary flow work to establish the valve job and then went straight to the dyno! When I can get Billy to test them, I'll post. Historically, Bill Sr has always put a priority on either the ET or the dyno numbers over flow numbers. He then modified his port or chamber designs if needed based on that data. But currently everybody "shops" flow numbers so we have to play that game too.
Thanks for your interest-will keep you posted.

[Steve Briscoe]

Originally Posted by Manowar

Historically, Bill Sr has always put a priority on either the ET or the dyno numbers over flow numbers.

Best use of his time! As you know, there's so many factors related to the motor and the induction system, a head is only as effective as the total package.

Thanks,
Steve

[Mark Worthington]

Chas, sorry I overlooked the weight info you previously posted. Thanks.

[Chas]

Mark,
My pleasure.
As an update to all-I inadvertently lied yesterday when I posted that we'd start the 18 deg test today. Our R&D builder fell ill and is out today and possibly tomorrow.
Promise I'll post when noise comes from Dyno room #1.

[charlie]

Looks great Chas.

Are you going to do a lower compression version for blower applications ?

Any idea of pricing yet on a short block ? I have a blown Dart 331 that would love to become a World 427.

Charlie