Democrats what is wrong with you?

Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 72, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
Chris,

It's not really Veeks fault, the people who he gets his info from lie to him and he still does not realize it!

It's not only the media outlets from which he seems to gain his information, Jim, it's also just the radical-right wing mindset to blame anyone EXCEPT the conservatives for the problems we are facing now. Hence, his rather weak responses to your analogy involving a wife with pre-existing debt at the time of the marriage.

VEEK is an excellent example of the saying "There are none so blind as those who will not see". His mind is closed, for all practical intents and purposes, to any viewpoint which does not agree with the poisoned viewpoint with which he has aligned himself. While our attempts to enlighten him to a more rational approach are entertaining for us and undoubtably informational to others, VEEK will never be able to see the forest for the trees--his blindness is self inflicted :sad: .

Cheers from Doug!!
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
Veek,

Earlier you said that Obama had increases federal employees by 200,000, appearing to show that Obama's government spending is out of control.

Why did you leave out the part about them being TEMPORARY census workers, required by the Constitution.

Do you think that we would not notice how misleading your post was?

I think you will say anything to forward your hate filled agenda!
 
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Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 72, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
NEA General Counsel Bob Chanin Tells It How It REALLY Is during his farewell Speech
 
I will have no further comment, but I thought the speach was interesting.

Not surprising to see this coming from you, Ron, considering your past contributions.

Consider the source, for one (ALWAYS consider the source of information in order to asses the degree of impartiality): TheFoundryBlog

Have you ever checked out their YouTube Channel? Hard to imagine a more radical conservative source. Surely you don't expect any rational, truth seeking individual, who would most assuredly expect the information referenced to be from an unbiased source in order for it to be viewed as valid in any form, to take this 2 minute bit of a lengthy address to an audience of his peers (those who have tried to further the profession of education through advocacy of a legal organization) as truly representing the views of a man who has dedicated his life to the goals and membership of that organization?

He certainly didn't speak for me when he said that NEA and its affilliates are not effective advocates ONLY because they have power, although I can imagine that this would certainly be a selling point for further membership initiatives, having seen many times during my 32 year career in education the way school boards run roughshod over the teachers they supposedly value. In the state of Kansas, collective bargaining is allowed, in the state of Texas teacher unions are prohibited by state law from being allowed to represent teachers in their negotiations with school boards. I've seen both sides of that equation, and it is not EQUAL when the school board is allowed to run unfettered by a powerful negotiating force over the rights of the teachers they employ.

Rather, it is obvious that TheFoundryBlog has chosen a short soundbyte for its inflamatory value......not at all an uncommon technique considering the inflamatory rhetoric in use by the most radical of the right wing conservative movement, the TEA Partiers.

People are starting to get the idea about the radical-right, Ron. Their brief soundbytes are either "manufacturered" or at a minimum taken out of context, as this one was.

Mr. Chanin was simply emphasizing the power in numbers...something which is common knowledge. What a sad state of affairs that TheFoundryBlog felt it necessary to misrepresent the tone of his farewell speech by picking a few seconds to showcase their displeasure with the union movement, and in the same shameful stroke impuning the altruistic intentions of those who have undertaken what is perhaps the most important of efforts, that of preparing our children to compete in an ever-increasingly difficult world economy and political landscape. The future of the U.S.A. depends on the success of our teachers in those endeavors.

SHAME ON THEM, and shame on you for posting the YT clip knowing full well that it was not representative of the global tone of the speech (or, even worse, for having allowed yourself to be so blinded by the radical-right wing conservative agenda that you didn't WANT to see it).

[edit--just in case you misunderstand where I'm coming from, in my entire 32 year career in public education I was a member of the NEA for only my first year.....just didn't want you to think I was biased toward the union cause]

Cheers from Doug!!
 
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Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
Doug,

I can not get over what weasels these guys are.

Of course they will say: "its not my fault" I got it from Fox or some concervative web site.

But enough is enough, it is your fault! EVERYONE knows by now that these sources of info can not be trusted.

Veek, Damian, RonRand even Al, stop posting these lies. Try telling the truth, try un-biased sources for your info, you will lose much of your anger and hate!
 
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Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
When the concervatives and tea party mortons go on and on about big government, runaway goverment spending and how they miss Reagan, show them this chart!
.
gov%27t+employment+-+federal,+picture.jpg


Since the 1960s,the ONLY President to grow the size of Government was the great Ronald Reagan!!! And no one cut the size of government more that Clinton!!!

Reagans part of the graph is the red part, Clinton is in blue.

I bet that most of our conservatives have no idea how much the size of Government has shrunk.
If you listen to the tea party hacks you would think that everyone works for the Feds and government grows like a cancer.

Veek, I told you the truth would make you feel better!
 
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You guys are always saying that we ought to help the less fortunate. I agree, If a person is making an attempt to earn a living and is not making enough to make ends meet, they deserved help. If women has a child and the father has gone south, she deserves help as long as she seeks employment when she is able to work. If she turns around and has another fatherless child, someone should look into her problem. We shouldn't have to support baby mills indefinitely, this is a multi generational problem. If you're trying to the best of your ability, you should get help if you need it.
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
Tom P

I like you more each day, I totally agree with you!

We all hope that folks can take care of themselves, but it is not always possible. Humans have long developed families, villages and society as a backstop when the need arises.

What do you think of the "size of Government" chart?
 
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If women has a child and the father has gone south, she deserves help as long as she seeks employment when she is able to work.

Tom,

I understand why you think this, but should the mother suffer because the father runs out on her, and should a child suffer because of the actions of a parent.
 
Tom,

I understand why you think this, but should the mother suffer because the father runs out on her, and should a child suffer because of the actions of a parent.

No one said anything about suffering, working is not suffering, just because you have a fatherless child does not entitle you to a free ride. That would be rewarding a mistake. Birth control isn't a brand new modern miracle.
 
No one said anything about suffering, working is not suffering,

Tom,

I think you misunderstood me, taking income from a single mother with no other source of money, is likely to effect their child.

Also there are many who would say looking after a child is hard work, especially if you are on your own for whatever reason.

just because you have a fatherless child does not entitle you to a free ride. That would be rewarding a mistake.

I hope you are calling the act a mistake and not the result, as if so I personally know "mistakes" (in your words) that have enriched this world.

Birth control isn't a brand new modern miracle.

Birth control is not 100% safe. Surely it works for both parties as well, you seem to be putting sole responsibility for it on the mother.
 
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Ian Anderson

Lifetime Supporter
You guys are always saying that we ought to help the less fortunate. I agree, If a person is making an attempt to earn a living and is not making enough to make ends meet, they deserved help. If women has a child and the father has gone south, she deserves help as long as she seeks employment when she is able to work. If she turns around and has another fatherless child, someone should look into her problem. We shouldn't have to support baby mills indefinitely, this is a multi generational problem. If you're trying to the best of your ability, you should get help if you need it.

She deserves a hand up not a hand out!
Help her get on her own feet - but not become dependant on the state to fund her existance

But in the UK everyone expect a Government hand out!
Seems like the BO team are trying to get USA to go down the same route.


Ian
 
She deserves a hand up not a hand out!
Help her get on her own feet - but not become dependant on the state to fund her existance

But in the UK everyone expect a Government hand out!
Seems like the BO team are trying to get USA to go down the same route.


Ian


You are totally right! I think that in a welfare society, when a young girl allows herself to become pregnant she is following a trend set by those before and around her. She knows that the government will provide. We would be far better off if we spent welfare money teaching birth control, and a better education so a good job could be obtained. We need to break the mold we created. I believe that a couple of generations would change things. I think I have drifted far away from Wisconsin! Sorry.
 
Quote, Nick

"Birth control is not 100% safe. Surely it works for both parties as well, you seem to be putting sole responsibility for it on the mother."<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

What ever happened to waiting? There's no reason a 14 or 15 year old girl should spread her legs and allow this. Where are the parents? Parents, thats the problem in a nutshell! No parents to guide.
 

Ian Anderson

Lifetime Supporter
Ian, now you sound like me. And Tom, we are a long way from Wisconsin. FYI, San Diego is having problems and so is Rhode Island:

All 2,000 Providence teachers told they could be fired - Yahoo! News

But Dom I'm biting my tongue here as this always touches a raw nerve!

I was brought up in a country where if you did not work you did not eat! Damn well gave me a great work ethic!

The UK government will continue writing cheques till there is no more money and then just priint some more! Cameron may slow the speed of spend slightly but it will still be above what the government collects. Net result will be more debt and no way to dig the country out!

Hold on I'll get my shovel!

Ian
 
Ian, no offense meant. So did I grow up where I had to work. Started when I was 11 cutting grass for the neighbors.

Writing checks is what a "liberal" democracy does. When I listen to the BBC on various issues like "should the elderly get their benefits", the arguments come down to means testing or everyone gets it.

At that point, its what party do you belong to for the answer.
 
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