GT40s.com Paddock Politics Thread

[Keith]

The real truth of it is, that the result caught everyone with their pants down. Clearly Cameron expected a 'stay' vote and so did just about everyone else including me. Many people I have spoken to voted to leave because they wanted to give the Govt a jolt to try and level the playing field a little. Well they certainly succeeded in doing that. (Jolt the Govt!)

Pat Condell eloquently puts across the sentiment i have personally experienced when the subject comes up in public locally but I am not a fan of his somewhat sneering delivery. Interestingly, the referendum result does pretty much mirror the political divide, at least locally to here and the big surprise and perhaps the winning tranche of voters, was the working class vote of Northern England. Never saw that coming. Having said that, Margaret Thatcher had cause to be 'grateful' for their support more than once, or was it more down to the Sun? :uneasy:

Yes of course the debate can & should continue. Never say never and there is a valuable lesson here for the electorate at large.

Referendums suck. Except if you're Scottish, when can you simply have referendum after referendum until you get the result you want.

It is what it is and we have to make it work. The political future of Europe seems unclear and to be honest, I wish I was still fit enough to work as I see opportunities ahead.

 

[Jeff Young]

The real real truth is that globalization will happen. It cannot be stopped. We have hundreds of years of history showing that. Either you adapt, or you fall behind.

Just as the US is stronger as a part of a successful NAFTA with a growing Mexican and Canadian economy on its borders, the UK would have been stronger in a growing EU lead financially by Germany and politically by the UK/France/Germany.

I love the UK and my friends there. I am afraid this this vote with push a proud nation that played a huge rol in the development of the Western World into irrelevancy.

 

[Keith]

Et tu Brutus? You make me laugh Jeff. It's the "Cambridge" effect. We've been irrelevant for years mate and it was....no, I'm not going going there.

Frankly if relevancy is the issue that brought us here today, I'd rather be irrelevant. It's trying to muscle our way onto a world stage that left us behind a long time ago that got us here in the first place and left us looking like a bunch of twats. Personally, I didn't mind which way it went. I'm naturally one of those people faced with a challenge, to just roll up the sleeves and get on with it.

Time for a bit of humble pie and rebuilding. That's the goal.

Leave the rhetoric at the door.

 

[Jeff Young]

It had been a civil discussion. That wasn't necessary.

Countries like the US/France/UK/Australia should lead. In the absence of us doing so, the Indians or the Chinese or the Russians will - and I vastly prefer our political and economic systems to theirs.

But this isn't rhetoric. This is reality. Globalization cannot be stopped. It's like standing one the beach and telling the tsunami it can't hit.

Whether people like Trump like it or not, the world's economic, political and cultural systems will continue to integrate. The losers will stand on the sideline and try, and fail, to make it on their own. The winners are the ones who recognize this, participate in the process, and do what they can to influence it in the correct direction.

 

[Keith]

Well you can probably blame an O2 sat of 88%! I was not aware I was being particularly uncivil old bean, still, it's nice to see the boot firmly on the other foot for a change.

Too late regarding the Chinese. It's a toss up right now who owns more of UK Ltd, French German or Chinese. I'm betting on the Chinese. I'll have a No. 23 with a side order of salt 'n pepper ribs. And so it goes around. The UK at one time in recent history owned swathes of the US and I remember the furore that caused. What goes around etc. The UK seem to have done a pretty good job of keeping the Russkies at bay though. I was quite astonished to learn that back in the late '90's when I operated a number of large bar/restaurant/nightclub venues, that in towns like Brighton, they had special "Russian liaison Police" specifically to keep tabs on them.

The Chinese of course have always been here since Hong Kong and especially after when they all got British passports. Big money..

Apologies for errors - I am typing this in an iPhone and I can't see properly because of the bloody steroids...

That's it for today... enjoyed it..

 

[Doug S.]

Geez....now Trump is about to get the U.S. into an armed conflict with Russia. He is too power-hungry to back down and Putin is certainly spoiling for a fight. Add to that all the unrest over North Korea and it does not look good!

Gotta be worried...

Doug

 

[Keith]

Should we really be worried about such things we have little control over? Why is Trump being condemned for his unilateral actions in Syria, after all, didn't Putin set the precedent?

Questions, questions.

Isn't it even slightly amusing to witness Iran getting cocky with the US while hanging on Putin's tailcoats?

On the basis that 'my enemy's enemy is my friend' - you now have the potential scenario of Russia + China + Iran + North Korea vs USA. On the basis that the UK has been recently told by Russia that we are 'an irrelevance on the world stage' (very true), there seems little we can do to bail you guys out this time like we did in WWI & II but we will rattle a sabre and send one of our new gunboats if only they could get the goshdarned engines working properly...

Bring it on I say, it might clear the air a bit. The stench of testosterone is overpowering..

 

[Larry L.]

Geez....now Trump is about to get the U.S. into an armed conflict with Russia. He is too power-hungry to back down and Putin is certainly spoiling for a fight. Add to that all the unrest over North Korea and it does not look good!

Gotta be worried...

Doug

This is exactly the kind of thing that happens when the U.S. military is downsized and defunded...and the "peace dividend" is spent on feel good "domestic programs" (read that: handouts) designed to buy votes instead.

For the past 8 years (ESPECIALLY the past 8 years), the U.S. has been a paper tiger choosing to talk, talk, talk...negotiate, negotiate, negotiate..."protest in the strongest terms", conduct "apology tours", and "lead from behind" (whatever THAT actually means). The U.S. has drawn red lines that meant N-O-T-H-I-N-G, 'has allowed Russia to take over Crimea, 'China to build/fortify/militarize manmade islands in key South China Sea shipping lanes...North Korea has stepped up its march to nuke weapons and violated every agreement they ever made on the subject, Iran has done exactly the same, Assad (whom Obama said had to go) has continued to slaughter his own people...........and up 'til now, he who has occupied the White House has done nothing to change/stop/prevent any of that...which has emboldened the so-called "leaders" of the aforementioned countries to do as they please - and they HAVE...'cause they knew there'd be no real consequences. Shoot - even ILLEGAL ALIENS have been flooding into the U.S. to the point where they're now holding demonstrations demanding this-and-that - and far left LOONS who run various cities/states have vowed to, and ARE, shielding them from arrest & prosecution!

But now things obviously are/will be a tad different...at least for the next 4 years.

Y'all might wanna 'git' used to it. :lipsrsealed:

 

[Keith]

I would still back the US in a shitfight with Russia though. If anything, Russia has struggled even more with armed forces spending cuts and a sizeable proportion their current gear is unserviceable.. But, they have the numbers..

The US military is awesome..

 

[Larry L.]

The US military is awesome..

...but should be more so...and would be were it not for the aforesaid.

The U.S. armed forces have been reduced to pirating spare parts off of the military equivalent of "parts cars" to keep planes flying and other equipment operational.

That's just RECKLESS and IRRESPONSIBLE...especially in today's world.

However, THAT situation will be addressed very shortly...

 

[Doug S.]

However, THAT situation will be addressed very shortly...

IF (!!!!) you believe our current POTUS...he has already cratered on a lot of things he promised...but we do remain hopeful, even in the face of increasing evidence that we can't expect much from him...don't we!!!!

Cheers!!

Doug

 

[Larry L.]

...he has already cratered on a lot of things he promised...

I'm fully aware of the left's "talking points" regarding what Trump supposedly will or will not do and what he supposedly has or has not done...Y-E-T. He's so far been in office for, what, about 2.5 MONTHS...and yet, because he's not accomplish ALL of what he said he wants to do at this point in time, you say he's "cratered on a LOT of things"?

Did he "crater" on:
- freezing fed hiring except for the military
- killing the T.P.P agreement
- killing the coal industry-strangling Obama E.O.s
- deporting criminal illegal aliens
- putting a conservative justice back in Scalia's seat at SCOTUS
- ordering the IRS to quit enforcing the "penalty" on people who don't buy health care insurance (more specifically: directing federal agencies to ease the “regulatory burdens” of ObamaCare...ordering agencies to “waive, defer, grant exemptions from, or delay the implementation of any provision or requirement” of ObamaCare that imposes a “fiscal burden on any State or a cost, fee, tax, penalty, or regulatory burden on individuals, families, healthcare providers, health insurers, patients, recipients of healthcare services, purchasers of health insurance, or makers of medical devices, products, or medications.”
- starting the process of building the border wall
- pulling fed support for mandatory 'transgender facilities'
- approval of the Dakota and Keystone pipelines
- ending the U.S. foreign policy of "leading from behind"
- revoking Obama-era executive orders on federal contracting
- directing the Treasury secretary to review the 2010 Dodd-Frank financial regulatory law
- instructing fed. agencies to abolish two regs for every new one imposed
- directing the Dept. of Commerce to streamline the fed permitting process for domestic manufacturers
- renegotiating the price tags on both the new "Air Force One" and F-35 contracts
- or directing the Department of Homeland Security to hire 10,000 more Immigration and Customs Enforcement personnel and 5,000 more Boarder Patrol Agents???

...and that's just a partial list of things he HAS done in 2.5 months...and yet you claim he's "cratered on a lot of things"? Ooooookay...

The only 2 things on the agenda I can think of that are either stalled or as yet not completed for the moment are the replacement Obamacare bill (and remember it took the Democrats 18 MONTHS to come up with their 'original'...and boy was that a dandy) and the tax reform bill which is 'still in the works'. Neither one can as yet be considered to have "cratered".

 

[Doug S.]

I like that he has hired more border patrol guards...do NOT like that he is going to build "...the wall" at public expense when his campaign promise was that Mexico would pay. He seems dead set on getting us into a very expensive military conflict (perhaps in an effort to demonstrate that Putin does not control him...???), but if that is his idea of "Make America Great Again" it sure does not set well with what I think is the majority of Americans (as indicated by his historically low approval ratings during his first 100 days).

I do agree that he has done a lot of what he said he would, Larry...and I do also understand why you like him for that. The reason I understand that is that it is the very reason I liked B.O. so much...he did what he promised during his campaigns, too.

The main difference between us is that you didn't like what B.O. promised to do and I don't like what Trump promised to do...that is the crux of our two-party adversarial political system here in America, no?

Still, I do look for things to like about Trump...but I want him to be more transparent in his intentions, want less sabre-rattling, an end to the nepotism (his position is an elected one, NOT a monarchy) and certainly do not want him leading not just the U.S., but the whole world into a nuclear war...that would NOT "Make America Great Again", IMHO.

I do believe he can (and should) should find a way to rid the world of that idiot leader of North Korea, but in a manner that does not lead us into war...I would not speculate on how he should do that (although some form of assassination seems to be the best idea), but however he does do that should not bring on WWIII.

Extremism seems to have become the order of the day under President Trump... I just don't think that's the way to "Make America Great Again", although I DO think that is an admirable goal.

Cheers!!

Doug

 

[Larry L.]

As regards your postulation he's likely to start WWIII or whatever - that's been one of THEE main accusations/talking points the left has used in opposition to every GOP president/presidential candidate I can remember...just like the left's other standard charges that GOPs will take away Soc. Sec., Medicare, throw grandma under the bus, 'conduct a "war on women" (what a j-o-k-e that one is on sooooo many levels), 'will reverse Roe vs. Wade, etc., etc., etc. And, of COURSE, the "too extreme, too extreme, TOO EXTREME!!!" accusation is, was, and always will be right up there near or at the top.

I do believe he can (...whereas no one else before him has or could )( and should) should find a way to rid the world of that idiot leader of North Korea, but in a manner that does not lead us into war...

IOW, you want Trump to come up with a plan that will not only rid the world of Kim, but will do so in a manner that will absolutely guarantee there'll be no hostile/adverse actions/reactions of any kind by his fellow loons...or, to put it another way, kill a bear cub in the presence of its mother in a way guaranteed to please her rather than r-e-a-l-l-y tick her off.

'Tall order...................especially the "guarantee" part.

...I would not speculate on how he should do that (although some form of assassination seems to be the best idea)...

THERE we agree 100% (I've advocated that for years). But, I'm surprised you're suggesting that he (GASP!) break the "law" to get rid of the clown. There IS an Executive Order that outlaws doing something like that, ya know. That would be Exec. Order #12333...2.11 Prohibition on Assassination. No person employed by or acting on behalf of the United States Government shall engage in, or conspire to engage in, assassination.) As far as I'm aware, that puppy is still in effect...unless Pres. Trump has quietly retired it. :sneaky:

However, I'm not aware of any E.O. or statute that "outlaws" a foreign leader being "killed" (accidently or on purpose) as the result of a missile attack or some other military action taken against a legit military target...and an enemy's "leader" IS a legit military target 'last I heard. What the difference might be as regards the degree of "dead" achieved in either circumstance (assassination vs. military action) is beyond my ability to comprehend, but...

 

[Doug S.]

However, I'm not aware of any E.O. or statute that "outlaws" a foreign leader being "killed" (accidently or on purpose) as the result of a missile attack or some other military action taken against a legit military target...and an enemy's "leader" IS a legit military target 'last I heard. What the difference might be as regards the degree of "dead" achieved in either circumstance (assassination vs. military action) is beyond my ability to comprehend, but...

Yeah...I agree that should the N.K. idiot ever reach intercontinental proficiency, given his nuclear arsenal, we SHOULD consider him a priority threat and if he even so much as fires a test missile our way, considering that we would not know if it were fully intercontinentally capable or not, we ought to first shoot it out of the sky with Patriot missiles and then launch a counterattack that would take that idiot out. He scares me much more than Putin...

DT seems willing to draw that red line in the sand and enforce it...it just seems like we ought to be able to function without needing to use nukes, and I don't have much confidence in his "powers of restraint" to believe he will exercise that much control.

The "Left" said it best in the 60's and 70's..."War is not healthy for children or other living things". I would be much more likely to support a covert operation that would "take out" the leadership of North Korea than engaging in any sort of missile-based warfare. Heck, maybe those two women who wiped poison on his brother/uncle (can't remember which) could be paid to do the same to him???

We can always dream, right?

Cheers!

Doug

 

[Larry L.]

Bottom line: There are no guarantees and no 100% foolproof way(s) to know what's going to happen 'if we do this' or 'if we do that'. There are consequences to/for every action...even when that "action" is to simply do nothing...and the latter option has often proven to result in consequences as bad as, or far worse than the former.

In the case of N.K., Iran, China and Russia, we've SEEN the ever-expanding consequences brought about by non-action over the past several years.

Hmmmmm...I wonder if one or two other dames (or whomever) could be persuaded to do as you suggest?! The 'originals' probably couldn't get within a hundred miles of Fat Boy now. They'd be too easily spotted and are likely considered 'marked women' as a result!

 

[Larry L.]

...it just seems like we ought to be able to function without needing to use nukes, and I don't have much confidence in his (Trump's) "powers of restraint" to believe he will exercise that much control.

Doug, you've been drinking too much DNC Kool-Aid. The fact Trump has been able to accomplish as much as he has all his life is proof positive he's neither stooopid NOR crazy. :freak:

 

[Doug S.]

No...he is neither stupid or crazy...but it is obvious he believes he is the smartest guy in the room, no matter which room it is or who is in it. That sort of arrogance can come back to bite one in a very uncomfortable location...and there is no doubt that he is THAT attogant!

Still, I look for reasons to like him...we ARE stuck with him for the ensuing 4 years and I do always try to focus on the positive. I must admit Trump makes that very difficult, at least for me (and the DNC has nothing to do with that!!).

 

[Larry L.]

...but it is obvious he believes he is the smartest guy in the room, no matter which room it is or who is in it. That sort of arrogance can come back to bite one in a very uncomfortable location...and there is no doubt that he is THAT attogant!

You DO realize you've just described Obama as well................right? :squint:

(...for that matter, MOST politicians.)

 

[Doug S.]

You DO realize you've just described Obama as well................right? :squint:

(...for that matter, MOST politicians.)

Sure do...and I was living in Texas when exactly that attribute cost Bill White (who had been the mayor of Houston) the election to state Governor...but B.O. would have, at least it has been my impression, been more "diplomatic" about things, even if he did have the same opinion of himself. POTUS Trump does seem a bit "braggadocios", so to speak, and that may not always be interpreted as competence as much as conceit.

One thing's for sure....we're in for one hell of a ride!!! HOLD ON!!!!

Cheers!

Doug