GT40s.com Paddock Politics Thread
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BREXIT is all over the news today here in the U.S.
I did some research/reading on the topic and it seems like a basket of snakes...difficult to understand because of all the twists and turns.
However, many of my favorite forum members are from the general British Isles area and I am curious about their opinions.
What say you all? Good or bad? Happy or sad?
...inquiring minds want to know :thumbsup:
Cheers!
Doug
I did some research/reading on the topic and it seems like a basket of snakes...difficult to understand because of all the twists and turns.
However, many of my favorite forum members are from the general British Isles area and I am curious about their opinions.
What say you all? Good or bad? Happy or sad?
...inquiring minds want to know :thumbsup:
Cheers!
Doug
Well I'm happy about it but I am not 'economically viable' so there is no risk either way for me. My decision to vote to leave was purely based on being governed by an undemocratic non-elected bureacracy driven by faceless, well, who exactly?
If you take the time to examine the EU political decision making process you would be absolutely appalled that we have thrown almost 1,000 years of parliamentary democracy under the bus.
I do understand peoples' fears of the 'unknown' and many of our citizens have only ever known the EU so it's very hard for them to contemplate, and none of us, even those that voted 'leave' can with any certainty predict the eventual outcome, but to simply vote to remain in that mess they call the EU purely because you were anxious about your job smacks of 'appeasement' 21st century style, and look where that got us.
The EU, to me, at it's worst, represents Hitler's European dreams of conquest with the added irony, that as a member state of the Greater German Reich, we would have enjoyed more autonomy. No, I'm not an apologist for Nazism, far from it, but many thousands, nay, hundreds of thousands died in a brutal war to free ourselves from the kind of control that we have just walked blindfolded into over the past 30 years or so.
We are among the more efficient of the North Western members, and we are expected to shell out billions to support inefficient corrupt regimes ad infinitum ad nauseum. I can only hope other key member states follow us and that we get good support from the rest of the world. Trade will not vanish over night. We are a fairly wealthy (by comparison with certain other EU states) with high employment and a nation of some 65 million consumers. So like what? People are going to stop trading with us? Bullshit.
Just as an example. Our unemployment stands at less than 10% among the lowest in the EU. Yet we subsidise "equal partners" like Spain who's unemployment runs at over 26%, has done for years, and they continue to take the 'manana' line with little or no serious poltical action for change. Why should they? The EU will divvy up some more cash to keep them going as they have done with Greece and other member states. Spain is littered with new build cities, highways and airports, built with EU money (ours, mine) that have never been used - never been occupied and are right now rusting away ever so gently in the Iberian sunshine.
Also somewhat ironically, staying in the EU was a staple policy of the Left here in the UK, (more 'free cash' to waste on grandiose hopeless schemes) while the vote that clinched the Leaving majority (I won't call it Brexit - I fucking hate the term), came principally from the working class population of Northern England, hence that's why our current Labour Party is in knots.
I witnessed the beginning of this 'dash for cash' in Ireland many years ago. In the green fields surrounding Dublin sprang up many huge signs announcing some grandiose and quite bizarre development funded by the EU. This gave rise in part to the 'Celtic Tiger' syndrome, which not nearly, but absolutely crippled Ireland. Did any of these grandiose EU funded projects get built? Some did, but mostly, the cash was just squirreled away and lost to the Irish communities forever. There are some very very rich Irish people that have every reason to love the EU and that's just one country out of, good Lord! How many is it now? 28? Madness.
We'll just have to bloody well roll our sleeves up and get on with it, although we are not the nation we were, and haven't been for nigh on 100 years. WWI did for us I'm afraid, whilst WWII was just a kick in the bollocks when we were already on the floor.
That's just my perspective Doug, but there are some clever people on here that will probably have a more mature and intellectual response...
(E&OE)
If you take the time to examine the EU political decision making process you would be absolutely appalled that we have thrown almost 1,000 years of parliamentary democracy under the bus.
I do understand peoples' fears of the 'unknown' and many of our citizens have only ever known the EU so it's very hard for them to contemplate, and none of us, even those that voted 'leave' can with any certainty predict the eventual outcome, but to simply vote to remain in that mess they call the EU purely because you were anxious about your job smacks of 'appeasement' 21st century style, and look where that got us.
The EU, to me, at it's worst, represents Hitler's European dreams of conquest with the added irony, that as a member state of the Greater German Reich, we would have enjoyed more autonomy. No, I'm not an apologist for Nazism, far from it, but many thousands, nay, hundreds of thousands died in a brutal war to free ourselves from the kind of control that we have just walked blindfolded into over the past 30 years or so.
We are among the more efficient of the North Western members, and we are expected to shell out billions to support inefficient corrupt regimes ad infinitum ad nauseum. I can only hope other key member states follow us and that we get good support from the rest of the world. Trade will not vanish over night. We are a fairly wealthy (by comparison with certain other EU states) with high employment and a nation of some 65 million consumers. So like what? People are going to stop trading with us? Bullshit.
Just as an example. Our unemployment stands at less than 10% among the lowest in the EU. Yet we subsidise "equal partners" like Spain who's unemployment runs at over 26%, has done for years, and they continue to take the 'manana' line with little or no serious poltical action for change. Why should they? The EU will divvy up some more cash to keep them going as they have done with Greece and other member states. Spain is littered with new build cities, highways and airports, built with EU money (ours, mine) that have never been used - never been occupied and are right now rusting away ever so gently in the Iberian sunshine.
Also somewhat ironically, staying in the EU was a staple policy of the Left here in the UK, (more 'free cash' to waste on grandiose hopeless schemes) while the vote that clinched the Leaving majority (I won't call it Brexit - I fucking hate the term), came principally from the working class population of Northern England, hence that's why our current Labour Party is in knots.
I witnessed the beginning of this 'dash for cash' in Ireland many years ago. In the green fields surrounding Dublin sprang up many huge signs announcing some grandiose and quite bizarre development funded by the EU. This gave rise in part to the 'Celtic Tiger' syndrome, which not nearly, but absolutely crippled Ireland. Did any of these grandiose EU funded projects get built? Some did, but mostly, the cash was just squirreled away and lost to the Irish communities forever. There are some very very rich Irish people that have every reason to love the EU and that's just one country out of, good Lord! How many is it now? 28? Madness.
We'll just have to bloody well roll our sleeves up and get on with it, although we are not the nation we were, and haven't been for nigh on 100 years. WWI did for us I'm afraid, whilst WWII was just a kick in the bollocks when we were already on the floor.
That's just my perspective Doug, but there are some clever people on here that will probably have a more mature and intellectual response...
(E&OE)
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Don't think I could disagree with Keith more.
In my opinion he has every point wrong, starting with democracy, and finishing with the WW1 Vs WW2 comment.
I'm very disappointed with the result, and think we will come to regret it.
But then I'm a republican and a federalist.
In my opinion he has every point wrong, starting with democracy, and finishing with the WW1 Vs WW2 comment.
I'm very disappointed with the result, and think we will come to regret it.
But then I'm a republican and a federalist.
Mike Pass
Supporter
No, Keith does not have it wrong. He has it exactly right.
We know there may be a temporary economic downside but it is worth paying to escape the dead hand of the EU gravy train. Did you know that there are 10,000 people "employed" by the EU who are paid more than the British PM? They are are still moving lock stock and barrel every month to keep the French happy.
10,000 European Union officials better paid than David Cameron - Telegraph
The farce of the EU travelling circus - Telegraph
Cheers
Mike
We know there may be a temporary economic downside but it is worth paying to escape the dead hand of the EU gravy train. Did you know that there are 10,000 people "employed" by the EU who are paid more than the British PM? They are are still moving lock stock and barrel every month to keep the French happy.
10,000 European Union officials better paid than David Cameron - Telegraph
The farce of the EU travelling circus - Telegraph
Cheers
Mike
Yet more proof that once government handouts start (whether going to countries or individuals) there'll be no end to 'em w/o some type of immanent or currently unfolding catastrophe forcing/mandating it.
May be you could expand further on your comment "dead hand"?
It's interesting you concentrate on the EU Parliment moving, given the waste in our own government (£4bn in a computer system for the NHS, that didn't work and was subsequently scrapped for example) moving parliaments is small beer.
Over 1000 civil servents earn more than the PM in this country. May be we should look closer to home before accusing others.
Capital flows always take place. In the U.K. Billions of pounds flow from the South East to the North.
Ian Anderson
Lifetime Supporter
Hi John
Perhaps Neil Kinnock and co
Failed UK Politician
Moved to EU and taking huge wages, and then employing wife sons etc as "Staff"
Ian
Whilst I am happy to be leaving I accepted there would be a price to pay for doing so. To me the only price paid so far and I acknowledge there is plenty of time still for things to move further, is the currency drop and uncertainty. However from my perspective whatever happens it is very unlikely to affect me and mine as much as the global financial recession did and from which I will not have recovered fully until 2018. Around here there is feeling that leaving the EU is like a decision to go self employed. It is now up to us to make it work. Some are better suited to self employment than others.
I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
Don't get fooled again
No, no!
Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!
Meet the new boss
Worse than the old boss
Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got
Till it's gone
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
Don't get fooled again
No, no!
Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!
Meet the new boss
Worse than the old boss
Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got
Till it's gone
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The thing is Ian we appointed him. He was appointed by the elected UK government of the time to be our commissioner in the EU.
Also, how many UK politicians employ their family members in similar roles here in the U.K.? Or certainly have done in the past. We only have to look over the Atlantic to see how that works!
My point is, it's hardly the fault of the EU when we send people like Mr Kinnock.
Well there you go Doug, 2 days after your question and a fairly evenly balanced and quite polite response but I do detect at least one angry young man and a musical cynic..
So, in that style,
At first I was afraid, I was petrified
Kept thinkin' I could never live without you by my side
Then I spent so many nights Just thinking how you did me wrong
And I grew strong
And I learned how to get along
Go on now, go walk out the door
Just turn around now
'Cos you're not welcome anymore
Weren't you the one who tried to break me with goodbye?
Did you think I'd crumble?
Did you think I'd lay down and die?
Oh no not I, I will survive
For as long as I know how to work, I know I'll stay alive
La di da etc...
(Extra Paddock Points if you dress in a glittery frock and sing this in front of a mirror holding a hairbrush)
So, in that style,
At first I was afraid, I was petrified
Kept thinkin' I could never live without you by my side
Then I spent so many nights Just thinking how you did me wrong
And I grew strong
And I learned how to get along
Go on now, go walk out the door
Just turn around now
'Cos you're not welcome anymore
Weren't you the one who tried to break me with goodbye?
Did you think I'd crumble?
Did you think I'd lay down and die?
Oh no not I, I will survive
For as long as I know how to work, I know I'll stay alive
La di da etc...
(Extra Paddock Points if you dress in a glittery frock and sing this in front of a mirror holding a hairbrush)
You complain about corruption in the EU, then make the rules to give yourself all the extra points
Nice try Nick but as your Moderator I am naturally disbarred from benefiting both directly and indirectly from the Paddock Points Reward System. You are most welcome to examine my personal UK accounts and others held in Jersey and the Isle of Man although those may be in the names of distant long-dead relatives...
Notwithstanding anything to the contrary, are you saying there's something wrong with dressing in a glittery frock and singing in front of a mirror holding a hairbrush?
Would be a very dull Saturday night without it... :gorgeous:
Notwithstanding anything to the contrary, are you saying there's something wrong with dressing in a glittery frock and singing in front of a mirror holding a hairbrush?
Would be a very dull Saturday night without it... :gorgeous:
I have been following your discussions, Keith... it is nice to see that we here on this side of the pond are not the only ones who are passionate about our politics, and even nicer to see that you all can discuss the issues without the rancor that always seems to invade our discussions. That is one of the things I have always admired about you all on that side of the pond.
I don't know if freedom of speech is a right guaranteed to you as it is here, but for some reason we here seem to just assume that a good exercise of that right includes insulting anyone who doesn't agree with us...cheers to you over there for your elegant restraint!
I hope for the whole world's sake that the economic difficulties that have accompanied governmental politics (and the unscrupulous acts of taking advantage of those governmental financial enticements by the politicians) can be controlled...else we may just all decide to just do away with governments altogether...there lies "Mad Max" style anarchy :thumbsdown:
Carry on, folks!
Doug
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
Wow no generalisations or stereotyping from an angry winner then. A view from the other side by Ian Hislop for Pat.
Brexit: 'Remainers are entitled to go on making the argument' - BBC News - YouTube
Ian Hislop and Tim Loughton fight over high court ruling - Have I Got News for You 2016 - BBC - YouTube
After an election or a referendum, even if you lose the vote, you are entitled to go on making the argument.
When a government in this country wins an election, the opposition does not say ‘oh that’s absolutely right I’ve got nothing to say for five years‘.
So, for those of us trying really hard over the last few weeks to follow what on earth is happening in this country: the Leave vote has left us with a group of leaders who, having lit the fire, have run away saying someone else can clear up the mess; the Prime Minister who put us in the mess has resigned; everybody is gone; all the people who put their cross down for Leave saying ‘this is what we want‘ – they seem to be getting a group of people who say ‘we can’t stop immigration, we can’t get £350 million, oh and there might be quite a lot of austerity… sorry, bye!‘
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