Rob Klein
Supporter
Yes you are correct, crotch belt is slang for the entire paragraph you typed lol
5 or 6 point harness in an SPF?
- Thread starter Dan512
- Start date
OK, but I still see people staying with 4-point belts because they don't want their nuts crushed, that's misunderstanding the design of the anti-submarine strap.
Randy Folsom
Supporter
I am very new to this 'hobby'. I am going to be building an RCR40, primarily for street and an occasional track-day at Circuit of the Americas in Austin Texas. My guess is that I am more likely to get in an accident that could kill/injure me on the street than the track. I would like a period correct looking harness, but safety first. I also am not keen on cutting a hole in the seats, but could be talked into it. Is there something available better than the Willans Club 4x4 (Saloon) 2"/2"? The car will have front and back roll bars, with nothing connecting the them. Thx in advance for guidance. Cheers, Randy
Last edited:
Chris Kouba
Supporter
RCR has a 2 piece seat. Get a 6 point and thread it into the gap between the seat back and the seat base. That's what I did.
The riveted insert piece can be removed when you want to use the sub belts and repositioned when you want it and use the 6-point as a 4-point, or when on static display.
Whatever you do, please don't use RCR's threaded holes on the firewall to anchor the lap belts (if they are even still there). They are way too high and far back, positioning the lap belt much to high on your abdomen. Anchor your lap belt appropriately through the floor.
The riveted insert piece can be removed when you want to use the sub belts and repositioned when you want it and use the 6-point as a 4-point, or when on static display.
Whatever you do, please don't use RCR's threaded holes on the firewall to anchor the lap belts (if they are even still there). They are way too high and far back, positioning the lap belt much to high on your abdomen. Anchor your lap belt appropriately through the floor.
Randy Folsom
Supporter
Chris, Thx much for the guidance. Had not considered that the RCRs seats have a gap at the base. For the upper mounts, should they be mounted about the same height as the seat back? I am planning to make the firewall a double layer like Tom's (EGLITOM), so adding reinforced mounting points should not be a problem. Cheers, Randy
Neil
Supporter
The best type of harness I'm familiar with is the 7-point harness. With 3" belts, it distributes the very high "G" forces over a wide area of your body, minimizing injuries. A cam release is my preference as it is fast and the belts can be clipped in one by one, making putting it on easier.
https://www.appliedracing.com/safety-equipment/7-point-3-harness-camlock---black-stroud-belt.html Bob Stroud made my parachute and harness. Good company.
https://www.appliedracing.com/safety-equipment/7-point-3-harness-camlock---black-stroud-belt.html Bob Stroud made my parachute and harness. Good company.
Randy Folsom
Supporter
Thx for the information. For me, such a robust restraint is probably too much. But I will look into it and if installing can be done without too much trouble, then why not. The cam lock is intriguing. Cheers, Randy
Ian Anderson
Lifetime Supporter
Roll cage on the road……do you realise how close your head will be to the bar?
I would suggest if you fit a cage then expect to only drive with a helmet.
Ian
I would suggest if you fit a cage then expect to only drive with a helmet.
Ian
Randy Folsom
Supporter
It’s not the full cage, it only has front and back hoops. Fran recommends the front bar because of the temptation to grab the windshield frame when getting in and out of the car, which can pop out the glass. The theory is, that if my head is able to hit either the front or back roll bar when properly belted in, then hitting my head on the roll bar is the least of my concerns.
Read , then read again. This was published sometime ago in the UK GT40 Enthusiasts magazine, three separate articles all together that persuaded many builders to change their plans and many cages to be cut out and removed
Sorry guys, cannot seem to attach files, not computer literate at 80 year old ,
Frank, here is a thread you commented some time ago and where you added the same information (I assume 
)
)Roll Cage question .......
Guys, is there a real cause for concern that the roll cages may actually inflict heavy injuries on the occupants if involved in a road accident (i.e. without wearing helmets)? I know there is a requirement for the roll cages for racing and track use but then we wear helmets. But can the roll...
www.gt40s.com
Ian Anderson
Lifetime Supporter
Roll Cage question .......
Guys, is there a real cause for concern that the roll cages may actually inflict heavy injuries on the occupants if involved in a road accident (i.e. without wearing helmets)? I know there is a requirement for the roll cages for racing and track use but then we wear helmets. But can the roll...
www.gt40s.com
Frank your articles are posted in this thread.
edit Marcus beat me to it by a couple of minutes
Ian
Thanks Guys - all 3 ? Frank
Randy Folsom
Supporter
Frank / Ian / Markus, Yes, head injuries are bad, however, rolling over without a roll bar is likely to cause some significant injuries as well. The halo used in Indy and Formula 1/2/3/E was met with same argument. I think if you ask Lewis Hamilton, he would tell you the halo is a life saver. As some of the articles note, even with a helmet, roll bars can cause brain injuries. I have not ridden in a car without being belted in since my father installed belts in our 1957 Chevy Bel Air station wagon and that was longer ago than I care to admit. With a six or seven point harness, the only way my head could reach the front roll bar is if I am impaled on the steering wheel. This debate reminds me of the seat belt debate, that is still going on today. Do seat belts save lives, yes. Do seat belts sometimes result in being trapped in burning or sinking car, yes. I trust that most of us driving these cars still wear seat belts despite the 1 in 2,200,000 risk of the seat belt being the cause of injury. Again, when properly belted in, with a properly installed harness, the risk of actually coming in contact with either the front or rear hoop is offset by the benefits of those bars. All that being said I will still be installing SFI 45.1 approved roll bar padding. Thanks again for the concern. Cheers, Randy
Randy Folsom
Supporter
Thanks for sharing the linkI did 4 point but they come in 5 as well
Schroth Profi II ASM 4 Point Harness (Anti-Sub) at CMS – Competition Motorsport
Schroth Profi II ASM 4 Point Harness (Anti-Sub) from Competition Motorsportcompetitionmotorsport.com
Neil
Supporter
Yes, I always wear a helmet in my black Mirage. My red one is a street car with no roll cage but it does have a roll bar.
I am not sure I would want to be wearing a 7-point harness driving the streets. Beyond confining. I think you have to think about the practicality of a 6 or 7 point harness for normal driving versus a track car situation. I look at all the very high performance cars Ferrari, Lamborghini, Aston, etc. produce and none have such harnesses. A high quality 3-point is more than sufficient if installed properly. That is also why designs like the ERA GtT have a Roll Hoop but it is BEHIND the passenger firewall. The problem with kit GTs (for the most part) is the center section is just fiberglass and not a stressed steel structure like the SPF tub. I would be far more concerned about hitting something like a road barrier and having it come through the A pillars which are weak and hit me. Someone was recently killed in a cobra that way. There is little strength with that structure made of glass.
