A gentleman with a grasp of the problem.

[Jeff Young]

Don't understand your question, sorry.

The question here was "do taxes increase wealth?" In very direct ways, yes, they help contribute to creating a society in which wealth generation is possible.

Jeff

How many are paid?
How many actually WORK?

Not just something for the S but the same in the UK

Ian

 

[Jeff Young]

The part where women run things.

see also

http://www.gt40s.com/forum/paddock/34700-civilisations-rise-fall-help.html

Where in the cycle does this put the USA?

Ian

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

The US has the 6th highest industrial tax rate in the world of 27.7% with a world average of 19.5%. We've driven US manufacturers out of the US with high taxes. Lower tax rates would increase US manufacturers and increase the tax flow. Higher taxes make less tax money because of fewer industrial tax payers.

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

‪Are you kidding me‬‏ - YouTube

 

[Jeff Young]

That's the corporate tax rate. It is higher than a lot of countries, I agree, but it just gets passed on to the consumer and I don't buy the "American companies are fleeing in droves" because of it stuff you hear sometimes.

I do agree it should be somewhat lower, ideally, but now might not be the time with the deficit issues we face.

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

That's the corporate tax rate. It is higher than a lot of countries, I agree, but it just gets passed on to the consumer and I don't buy the "American companies are fleeing in droves" because of it stuff you hear sometimes.

I do agree it should be somewhat lower, ideally, but now might not be the time with the deficit issues we face.

I believe it's pass tense, they have been fleeing for years.

 

[Keith]

"Fleeing the country" as a concept appears to be an East >>>>> West movement of population shift. Everyone from the East seems to want to go West.

If US citizens are "Fleeing" do they go West too?

If they do, where will they go? As far as I know, apart from some silly radiation shy surrender monkeys running away from a minor glitch in a Japanese Nuclear Power Station, no-one has "Fleed" from Japan for years (pre WWII history of Nipponese Imperialist Aspirations doesn't count as they were "Invading" not Fleeing).

Can't see you guys Fleeing to China either, although it's a bit bigger, there's still no room and more importantly no trees which means no hunting and I don't think guns are permitted either.

Which leaves Australia! Apart from a huge detention centre for Vietnamese boat people who also Fled West, and other odd species, sited slap bang in the middle where it is nice and quiet, there is oodles of room and not many Mexicans! I'm sure Pete McCluskey would be glad to put a few of you up when he gets his house fixed up.

Is my theory correct?

If not, where would you flee? Not here in the UK because Sharia Law is imminent and I know you wouldn't like that + you would have to bow and scrape to the Queen and anyway, we would laugh at your funny trousers.

So, where?

 

[Doug S.]

‪Are you kidding me‬‏ - YouTube

Listen, guys, we all sacrifice, regardless of the form of "work" we choose. I worked in a fairly low paid position in education for 32 years, could have worked in the world of business but got more personal satisfaction from helping people rather than taking advantage of them every time I could.

This guy obviously has a small business, he is quite vocal about the members of congress not having run businesses themselves. Maybe, maybe not...I can't imagine Congress is devoid of business owners, even if they are lawyers.

The one thing I do agree with is this guy's assertion that they are ALL responsible for the current mess, Republicrats as well as Demopublicans, all of them.

The rest of it I find hard to buy into..in the end he sounds very much like most conservatives, trying hard to keep from having to invest in America and hoping to get Congress and the POTUS to put the burden on middle-class America.

I find it sad that America's post-WWII middle class is credited with creating the most successful economy in America's history, and now the middle class has been so decimated by decades of financial malfeasance that they will NOT be able to bring about the magnitude of change that is necessary. The well off just have to realize, there isn't the money in the middle class that there was, most of it has been "shifted" to the wealthy, and the wealthy are the ONLY class that can have a significant impact.

I see a "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to put up with it anymore" scenario, but not the one this guy predicts. It's increasingly an issue of the haves vs the have-nots, and the old "Let them eat cake" attitude of the wealthy will likely bring about armed insurrection at some point, but the government won't be the targets, it'll be the wealthy (and greedy).

A sad state of affairs, indeed, and nobody seems to want to step up and do something about it. The wealthy (conservatives) want to "conserve" what they have worked so hard to accumilate, the poor who have worked in low-paying jobs all of their lives to enrich the wealthy feel they are rightfully entitled to a piece of the pie. Nobody wins........

No cheers from Doug this time!!

 

[Jeff Young]

Honestly it's laughably incorrect. Where do you get this stuff? Sharia law in the UK is "imminent?"

"Fleeing the country" as a concept appears to be an East >>>>> West movement of population shift. Everyone from the East seems to want to go West.

If US citizens are "Fleeing" do they go West too?

If they do, where will they go? As far as I know, apart from some silly radiation shy surrender monkeys running away from a minor glitch in a Japanese Nuclear Power Station, no-one has "Fleed" from Japan for years (pre WWII history of Nipponese Imperialist Aspirations doesn't count as they were "Invading" not Fleeing).

Can't see you guys Fleeing to China either, although it's a bit bigger, there's still no room and more importantly no trees which means no hunting and I don't think guns are permitted either.

Which leaves Australia! Apart from a huge detention centre for Vietnamese boat people who also Fled West, and other odd species, sited slap bang in the middle where it is nice and quiet, there is oodles of room and not many Mexicans! I'm sure Pete McCluskey would be glad to put a few of you up when he gets his house fixed up.

Is my theory correct?

If not, where would you flee? Not here in the UK because Sharia Law is imminent and I know you wouldn't like that + you would have to bow and scrape to the Queen and anyway, we would laugh at your funny trousers.

So, where?

 

[Jeff Young]

But not because of corporate tax rates. Companies that have left the US have generally done it because the cost of labor here for a lot of manufacturing is too high.

I believe it's pass tense, they have been fleeing for years.

 

[Keith]

Honestly it's laughably incorrect. Where do you get this stuff? Sharia law in the UK is "imminent?"

Laughably Incorrect is exactly where it is at Jeff mate.

Or is it?

A London Borough this week.....

So, that's No Alcohol, No Gambling, No Shagging, No Music, No Christians.

What a Fun lot!

But, if that's what it takes......

Coming to a Borough Near You SOON! :laugh: Can't wait.

 

[Jeff Young]

Yeah, I've heard about those. And I could put up a "Spaghetti Monster Rules Here" flyer and that and a nickel would get me a nickel.

When your police and your legal system start enforcing that, let me know. Right now, it's private Muslims attempting to control Muslims (and others) privately, but without force of law.

And don't start with the "but we allow Sharia law in the courts!" nonense. In the UK, like in the US, parties can agree to have certain law apply. So if two Jews want Hassidic law to apply to a dispute, or two Muslims Sharia, they can, just like two companies can arbitrate using the law of whatever jurisdiction they want.

This is grumpy white guy stuff to the MAX.

 

[Keith]

That's ALL we need! Acidic Jews!

Whatever next?

Huh.....:worried:

T'was but all a jest Young Jeffrey. It is Friday, and Rum O'clock beckons..

Have a nice weekend all...

 

[Ian Anderson]

Don't understand your question, sorry.

The question here was "do taxes increase wealth?" In very direct ways, yes, they help contribute to creating a society in which wealth generation is possible.

Jeff

Simple - to make hings balance you need to raise more income or cut expenses

Income increase means more or higher taxes and that looks unlikely

Expenditure
Biggest portion will be the wageroll
So how many peiople are on the USA government wageroll?
And of those people how many are actually needed ?
And of those needed how many actually do a full days' work for their pay?

First number will be very big
Next number 1/3 - 1/2 of the first number
3rd Number 2/3 of the second

So you are paying for people to do things that are not needed / not wanted
And of the people in jobs that "the people" want done 1/3 probably do not do a full day's work so are again "unproductive"

Hey as I said it's not just the US it's over here too - jobs for the boys!

Ian

 

[domtoni]

Couple of points to Ian's post:
- the BHO government is now 45% of the economy
- a friend says that whenever a public service job is done, its with 6 people in a new van. And only half of the people are needed.

Sound familiar?

 

[Jim Craik]

Domtoni,

As I understand it, approximately 1% of the US population work for the Federal Government.

Please explain how that can be 45% of the economy?

 

[Terry Oxandale]

Here is the example that Kelly talks about. If anyone could give me an article demonstrating how higher taxes brings wealth, I would welcome it.

CME Group calls tax situation 'untenable;' says it may exit state - chicagotribune.com

If you don't know, Illinois has the highest business taxes in the civilized world.

This illustrates the rub that consistently irritates the masses. I think a more correctly stated desire is, "If anyone could give me a well structured study that demonstrates without reasonable doubt the relationship of taxes on national wealth, I would welcome it."

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com<img src=" /><o></o>
Thus far there is no conclusive evidence in either case. A lot of claims are made based on belief or faith in one's own ideology. Even worse, a lot of these kinds of statements (correlation of taxes to national wealth) are presented as “fact”, when in fact, it's only my opinion that supports “my argument”. My opinion is there are pros and cons to taxes, but most of us are only focused on the pro, or the con, but not both as they impact 'my bottom line.'

<o></o>
I would love to see a definitive, fact-based, non-biased, whole picture study on this correlation, aside from a narrow minded, viewpoint sourcing some finite point in the economic continuum. If it was so obvious, there wouldn’t be any debate. <o></o>
<o></o>

 

[Ron Earp]

A London Borough this week.....

So, that's No Alcohol, No Gambling, No Shagging, No Music, No Christians.

Aw come on! That little yellow sign is going to get in the way of a true Englishman and his pint? Bullshit. If you guys have gone that pansy you don't deserve to be called Englishmen; and I know that isn't the case.

 

[Jim Craik]

Domtoni,

You said:

"-the BHO government is now 45% of the economy."

That sounded very high, so I checked.................
.
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width=600><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD class=tablehead>Federal Outlays, 1962 to 2001</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD><HR SIZE=1 width="100%">(As a percentage of GDP)</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD align=middle>

This shows the number to be around 18%, could you please explain the discrepancy?



</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

[domtoni]

Let us look at current numbers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_spending#Government_spending_as_a_percentage_of_GDP
- Then we have the complete 50 state and local budgets which will add the rest.