Alan Mann Car

[Stephen Ducker]

Hello,

Confusion has probably taken place between cars #5 and #7 ?
(Both in Alan Mann colours)

#5 wears the chassis no. AMGT-2 and contains some of that car, I believe.

#7 is a new car as described in previous posts. (sorry haven't got the chassis number to hand)

Steve

Hi Samiaal,

Please see the above,

& for further identification notice the the lightweight rear body on #5 with separate air scoops and Mk2 style snorkel air intakes painted black. #5 also runs without sill covers (see the ribs in the chassis) the doors, 'B' pillars & front body have been re-profiled so that they line up with the chassis (the front wheel arches doesn't line up with the front of the chassis though, the sill covers are an inch or two longer than the chassis).

Craig Davies #7 also runs without sill covers & has similar re-profiled front body, doors, 'B' pillars & rear body. However in this case the rear body is a standard Mk1 part modified .
The petrolicious article refers to the car as chassis #003, it appears to of started out as a Superformance Mk1, perhaps Alan Mann Racing have begun a new numbering sequence ?
They do offer continuations of most of their 1960's Fords.

Regards Steve

 

[Stephen Ducker]

Pictures borrowed (nicked) from other members, hope that's ok! Steve.

 

[Keith]

Stephen, where are the pics of #5 to be found? I think this is what is causing my non cognisance. Then, in a completely calm and dispassionate manner, please tell me how many (different) cars are featured on this thread and what their chassis numbers might be, otherwise I might implode, no, i think I'm gonna do that anyway...

:dizzy:

Thanks for your help. I am particularly interested in all history of Alan Mann Racing, not limited to GT40's..

 

[Cliff Beer]

Why imply that it's an original GT40 if it's not? I just don't get that sort of thing. There's no shame in celebrating a wonderful replica, and this looks like an absolutely stunning SPF replica. Beautiful car. All I can guess is that this is some lead up market conditioning to selling the car....but maybe that's just me being cynical.

Maybe I'm just old fashioned. I have a Mercedes S600 bought new and driven by Kobe Bryant, and a Rolls Royce Corniche bought new/driven by a similarly famous individual. Still the same cars as any other Merc/RR, and not even a bunch of wrench turning by either on the car is going to turn it into an SSK or Silver Dawn drophead.

 

[Stephen Ducker]

Stephen, where are the pics of #5 to be found? I think this is what is causing my non cognisance. Then, in a completely calm and dispassionate manner, please tell me how many (different) cars are featured on this thread and what their chassis numbers might be, otherwise I might implode, no, i think I'm gonna do that anyway...

:dizzy:

Thanks for your help. I am particularly interested in all history of Alan Mann Racing, not limited to GT40's..

Hi Keith,

Pictures here, all from the 74th Goodwood Members Meeting.
So the racing numbers relate to the two cars on that weekend !

http://www.gt40s.com/forum/video-pictures-buffet/48083-goodwood-members-meeting.html

Just found what I was looking for on Craigs website, (knew I'd read it somewhere but memory had fade set in....)
#7 at 74thMM was Craig Davies car & has been numbered AMR003, (a new number & not a reuse of a 1960s one)
I believe it's a Superformance car reworked to Appendix K spec.

GT40 Tech


The other car.
#5 at 74thMM was AMGT-2.
I believe it's a recreation/rebuild that does incorporate some of the original car. Parts of which were rediscovered some years ago in storage about 5 miles away from me in Southend on Sea.

Bye for now Steve

 

[Keith]

Thanks Stephen so no original cars then. Bit of stretch naming AMGT-2? (Which incidentally I believed was originally a MKII or was it?).

As Cliff says - beautiful cars. The AM colours really suit the '40.

 

[Allan Feldman]

Keith it was never a MKII all Alan Mann MKII's were prefix XGT1-3. Remember AMGT-2 was eventually brought by Paul Hawkins in December 1966.He replace door and sill for Group four racing. Its number plate was MRC 741K. It was a really successful car with modified bodywork far removed from its original lightweight look by 1968.
I quote from Ronnies S book
"P/1019 was despatched in 5/11/1965 to Alan Mann Racing to be used as a lightweight Mark 1 along with P/1023. But Alan Mann had by then accumulated five GT40 chassis from Abbey Panels in Coventry by then. It proved much quicker to build up two of these as lightweights and utilize the parts from P/1019 and P/1023. P/1019 was then sent out to the USA as a spare chassis. However. it was not needed and flown back to the UK where on arrival it was purchased by Australian Paul Hawkins who had already used some of its parts as the owner driver of AMGT-2. He raced it in Barcelona winning first time out and then it was sold on in February 1969" Its registration number is YMD 999H and much later LEOPPLA Ohio plate.
Regards Allan

 

[Keith]

Keith it was never a MKII all Alan Mann MKII's were prefix XGT1-3. Remember AMGT-2 was eventually brought by Paul Hawkins in December 1966.He replace door and sill for Group four racing. Its number plate was MRC 741K. It was a really successful car with modified bodywork far removed from its original lightweight look by 1968.
I quote from Ronnies S book
"P/1019 was despatched in 5/11/1965 to Alan Mann Racing to be used as a lightweight Mark 1 along with P/1023. But Alan Mann had by then accumulated five GT40 chassis from Abbey Panels in Coventry by then. It proved much quicker to build up two of these as lightweights and utilize the parts from P/1019 and P/1023. P/1019 was then sent out to the USA as a spare chassis. However. it was not needed and flown back to the UK where on arrival it was purchased by Australian Paul Hawkins who had already used some of its parts as the owner driver of AMGT-2. He raced it in Barcelona winning first time out and then it was sold on in February 1969" Its registration number is YMD 999H and much later LEOPPLA Ohio plate.
Regards Allan

Thanks Alan - getting my X's mixed up with my AM's! Much clearer now..

 

[Allan Feldman]

That's all right Keith GT40's histories are always confusing.
But to clear up the ID of AMGT lightweights were built up on unnumbered GT40 spare chassis from Abbey Panels.
Regards Allan

 

[Stephen Ducker]

Hello Allan,

Thanks for your input. (any help keeping Keith on the straight & narrow is always welcome !!!!!!).

Samiaal hope some of this has helped.

Regards Steve

 

[Stephen Ducker]

Keith, just sent you a PM.

Steve

 

[Samiaal]

Good that I'm not only one who is interested this issue here!
Thank You for all your help and understanding!

So, seems that these cars seen in MM, were really beautiful recreations of historic racers. Superperformances then.
I really thought that they would be an original GT40 MKI's from 60's, at least one of them. The #003 really gives that image of the issue, and the AMGT2 does it also.

I only wonder ; WHY Alan Mann Racing says in their web site:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BCNjR6rOel9/

Why they say it like this, you get a image that Members Meeting seen car or cars were an original from the 60s. That makes me confused even now.
Even I know, that You here in the forum have followed these cars so long time that You really know the stories behind these cars.

I just can not understand why to say something, that it's not actually true. Like this instagram image. Why say, if the car is recreation...?

Of course I was disappointed to read this evening that these are recreations., I really expected to see an original Alan Mann cars in Members Meeting.
But really, if you don't know the history, then you really do mistakes and don't know the facts.

Anyway, I tried to solve this issue, I wrote to Alan Mann Racing to inquiry about this issue, but no response yet. Hope someday it will come.

Mean while, I have to trust You here in this Forum and understand that these Alan Mann Light Weights are probably off the Europe, if any car is still left. I don't know are any of these 5 cars left, destroyed or what. That would explain things.

One seems to be in USA so perhaps, no AMR GT40s in Europe then. Perhaps they want to celebrate the history and make recreations to match the original cars, but WHY marketing these as "an original" cars then.
That part I don't understand.

And one word about recreations. I never meant that I don't like them or appreciate them. Saw how many of these really were Superperformances there, how they race them with an original cars. I definitely would take my garage Superperformance GT40 MKI. No question about it.
But I would not take there Miura with Chevy V8. I think you understand the point here.

Anyway, thanks for your help. I hope Alan Mann Racing would reply me soon and this issue would got the final answer.
Even I believe that they were superperoformance recreations of those unique cars from 60s.

 

[Keith]

Samiaal, cutting through the 'jungle' of information here it seems AMGT/2 has "some parts of the original car". I don't think there is any attempt to represent AMR003 as original.

If you want to go down the path of "grandfather's axe" then you will probably understand why they deem this car an original. How many and which original parts is of course not disclosed. With no disrespect to AMR, I do not believe you will get an answer on this issue as it lies at the very heart of the entire historic race car industry.

 

[Samiaal]

OK thanks. I bet you are right with this one.

Anyway, one more word about this issue.
I took a look that Haynes owners manual book again and on page 58 is an image of AMGT wearing number 24.
Same car than Members Meeting's car number 5 then?

Also page 153 has an image of Jackie Stewart longside AMTG2 in Goodwoods Revival 2013. Same car I think than number 24.

The book really says straight that this car is AMGT2. No other things mentioned if I remember right. So seems, and I really want to believe it has parts used AMGT2, but the chassis then...Replaced perhaps. But still aluminium?

 

[Keith]

the chassis then...Replaced perhaps. But still aluminium?

Somehow I doubt that....