aluminum tank question
- Thread starter jimbo
- Start date
Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
More progress on this, and something possibly worth passing on: when I bought my Smiths instruments several years ago, I purchased senders for the fuel gauge. These are the traditional swinging-float type units. With the shape of the tank and all (it doesn't even have a flat bottom, it actually inclines downward towards the center of the car) plus the limited amount of room in there, it looks like the senders I have won't work very well, if at all. There is a mininum length to the sender rod which I am not certain will be possible.
So I called Isspro in Washington; I have gotten several gauges and other instruments from them in the past, and it turns out they will custom-make senders in their plant, using their vertical design. (I think this is a tube with a float around it inside a larger tube, with stepped resistance elements). It can be made in standard or custom lengths and they can tailor the resistances to whatever you need- in this case 10-180 ohms, which is evidently what VDO uses also- might be a European or EEC standard. Their off-the-rack senders are about seventy bucks- these will be more, but they will be specifically made for this application.
Over the years I have had opportunities to use Isspro products on a number of occasions, mostly in marine use which is at least as tough on products as racing cars are. My boat has four Isspro tachs, also pyrometers and boost gauges for the turbo Cummins diesels. I can't recommend these guys highly enough. They are absolutely reliable, they ship stuff fast, even custom, and everything I have ever gotten from them worked perfectly the first time out. They REALLY know their stuff cold. ISSPRO.com Your home for quality Gauges, Tachometers, Speedometers, and more!
So I called Isspro in Washington; I have gotten several gauges and other instruments from them in the past, and it turns out they will custom-make senders in their plant, using their vertical design. (I think this is a tube with a float around it inside a larger tube, with stepped resistance elements). It can be made in standard or custom lengths and they can tailor the resistances to whatever you need- in this case 10-180 ohms, which is evidently what VDO uses also- might be a European or EEC standard. Their off-the-rack senders are about seventy bucks- these will be more, but they will be specifically made for this application.
Over the years I have had opportunities to use Isspro products on a number of occasions, mostly in marine use which is at least as tough on products as racing cars are. My boat has four Isspro tachs, also pyrometers and boost gauges for the turbo Cummins diesels. I can't recommend these guys highly enough. They are absolutely reliable, they ship stuff fast, even custom, and everything I have ever gotten from them worked perfectly the first time out. They REALLY know their stuff cold. ISSPRO.com Your home for quality Gauges, Tachometers, Speedometers, and more!
Look at Fuel Safe Racing Cells they have the tube type fuel level senders, and may be cheaper than a one off custom design.
Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
AS GT40 parts go, they won't be too bad- about $120 each, which isn't terribly expensive when you look at some of the other stuff I've bought.
A few years ago I bought four Isspro tachometers for my marine diesels. (Cummins B turbos). They arrived in about four days. They were programmed for the Cummins engines, I installed them right out of the box and not only did they work perfectly the first time, THEY ALL AGREED. I couldn't believe it. These guys have a customer for life with me, frankly. And this was after we screwed around with VDO for three months trying to get working tachs in the boat. The Isspro tachs were far less expensive than all the VDOs we tried and returned.
A few years ago I bought four Isspro tachometers for my marine diesels. (Cummins B turbos). They arrived in about four days. They were programmed for the Cummins engines, I installed them right out of the box and not only did they work perfectly the first time, THEY ALL AGREED. I couldn't believe it. These guys have a customer for life with me, frankly. And this was after we screwed around with VDO for three months trying to get working tachs in the boat. The Isspro tachs were far less expensive than all the VDOs we tried and returned.
Looks like I need to get in touch with this ISSPRO---the VDO tach on my Cobra says the stock block 89 Mustang GT 5.0 will rev to at least 9,500 RPM and the VDO sending unit in my aluminum fuel tank has quit working unless the tank is very close to dry (I think some of the foam in the tank is interfering with the swing arm on the sending unit). Obviously both issues need to be addressed!
Doug
Doug
Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
Talk to Don. They haven't disappointed me yet. As we say out here, they "know from" gauges....
Chris Duncan
Supporter
5052-T3 .050" thick
T6 is overkill because all the HAZ are going full soft anyway and T3 is easier to bend.
.120" ?? Overkill. What kind of "tank" are we building? One for fuel or the kind with treads and gun barrels?
Agree with the foam, just do a little research and find something that's resistant to whatever fuel you're running. If you have to buy the foam and soak it in the fuel to test.
T6 is overkill because all the HAZ are going full soft anyway and T3 is easier to bend.
.120" ?? Overkill. What kind of "tank" are we building? One for fuel or the kind with treads and gun barrels?
Agree with the foam, just do a little research and find something that's resistant to whatever fuel you're running. If you have to buy the foam and soak it in the fuel to test.
Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
Actually, I have made some progress in the research part of this, as follows:
-I got some photos from Andrew Booth which show a proper tank shape for the car, and where the overflow and pickup tubes ought to go in. Very helpful as I am not sure that I would have put them where the photos show.
-we have a template for the tank shape and just have to try it into the sponson to make certain that it will work.
-we are going to use Explosafe inside the tanks; this is an expanded aluminum mesh which requires are less maintenance than foam. We'll have to have the tank measurements etc and stuff it into there before the tops are welded on, but it ought to work handily once it's in there.
I've decided that before I tackle the tanks (the fitting of which will require our removing much of the front suspension on each side) that I am going to get all the body parts done and off to the painters'. One headache at a time, or at least no more than two or three, that's the idea...
-I got some photos from Andrew Booth which show a proper tank shape for the car, and where the overflow and pickup tubes ought to go in. Very helpful as I am not sure that I would have put them where the photos show.
-we have a template for the tank shape and just have to try it into the sponson to make certain that it will work.
-we are going to use Explosafe inside the tanks; this is an expanded aluminum mesh which requires are less maintenance than foam. We'll have to have the tank measurements etc and stuff it into there before the tops are welded on, but it ought to work handily once it's in there.
I've decided that before I tackle the tanks (the fitting of which will require our removing much of the front suspension on each side) that I am going to get all the body parts done and off to the painters'. One headache at a time, or at least no more than two or three, that's the idea...
From where I sit, which is in a GTD now 20 years in my ownership and 18 years on the road, it has aluminium tanks, I would guess at 2mm thick being GTD but not sure. I have it mounted on 1/4 inch thick rubber washers supported at each end. The lugs are quite thick for the mounting points, guess at approx 5mm. I know I have exceeded 10g with this car (in a spin over rough ground) as my automatic fuel cut offs kicked in and they are triggered by a 10g moment. The tanks look as strong and as tough as the day I installed them. The issue I have though is that now when I recently disconected one of the tank filling tubes (petrol resistant plastic pipe) to remove and refit the tank, I could not get it to reseal as it had hardened up. So the fuel pipe is to be changed. The tank which has not been disconnected is still sealed up just fine. But I will change it at the same time as a precautionary measure.
It is filled with explososafe. The only issue with foam filling is that it does slow down a fill up at the fuel station unless you make a chamber where the fuel first goes into the tank. I have no plans to test the explososafe capabilities of my car!
It is filled with explososafe. The only issue with foam filling is that it does slow down a fill up at the fuel station unless you make a chamber where the fuel first goes into the tank. I have no plans to test the explososafe capabilities of my car!
Hey,
I am doing some research (lurking) on the forums and cannot find the dimensions for the sponsons, inside measurements. I am looking at the largest fuel tank possible and the envelope it has to work with. Mostly for the RCR or RF 40's if there are huge differences between manufacturers.
Thanks
Dean
I am doing some research (lurking) on the forums and cannot find the dimensions for the sponsons, inside measurements. I am looking at the largest fuel tank possible and the envelope it has to work with. Mostly for the RCR or RF 40's if there are huge differences between manufacturers.
Thanks
Dean
Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
OK- they ALL vary, both in shape and dimension. The only way I can see to accomplish this is to template the inside shape of the sponson ribs and then make a mockup of the tank out of light plywood and trial-fit that. That is one of the next big jobs we have to tackle on 1149. There are some things to keep in mind (some of these courtesy Andy Booth in UK who kindly supplied me with photos of his tanks):
-make sure there is room to get hoses and clamps etc onto all the tank spigots or threaded fittings once the tanks are inside the sponsons.
-the tank pickups ought to be at the back of the tank, and down low, with baffles around them.
-likely you will be better off with a vertical sending unit rather than the swinging-arm type.
-fill tank with Explosafe before it's welded up shut.
For 1149s tanks, we plan to make them a bit small and then glue strips of neoprene along the tanks so that when they are tapped into place they will remain there. Keep in mind the tanks need to be baffled at three or four points in order to avoid free-surface effect sloshing that will possibly move the tank inside the sponson. There should be a way for air to circulate inside the sponson and for condensation to drain out (filling the tank with cold fuel on a warm day will cause condensation outside the tank and ultimately corrode the tank).
MAKE SURE the tank is grounded to the chassis!! I suggest a commercial ground strap with zinc-plated ends. I would not use copper cable- it will eat through the tank if the copper comes in contact with the tank.
-make sure there is room to get hoses and clamps etc onto all the tank spigots or threaded fittings once the tanks are inside the sponsons.
-the tank pickups ought to be at the back of the tank, and down low, with baffles around them.
-likely you will be better off with a vertical sending unit rather than the swinging-arm type.
-fill tank with Explosafe before it's welded up shut.
For 1149s tanks, we plan to make them a bit small and then glue strips of neoprene along the tanks so that when they are tapped into place they will remain there. Keep in mind the tanks need to be baffled at three or four points in order to avoid free-surface effect sloshing that will possibly move the tank inside the sponson. There should be a way for air to circulate inside the sponson and for condensation to drain out (filling the tank with cold fuel on a warm day will cause condensation outside the tank and ultimately corrode the tank).
MAKE SURE the tank is grounded to the chassis!! I suggest a commercial ground strap with zinc-plated ends. I would not use copper cable- it will eat through the tank if the copper comes in contact with the tank.
