Amgt40/1

[roaldin]

The trouble is that people so badly want them to be original.

At the couple of events my car has been in it is always written in programme as a replica, commentary always calls it a replica, but still people say things like "it's just great of you to bring your car along, the replicas are nice but it's so great to see a real one". It is quite difficult at that point to break the moment and say "well actually it is a replica". I always feel like a Doctor giving bad news...

I always use that line - of the one hundred(ish) that were made only two hundred still survive.

Tim.

 

[Keith]

I am home now and have attached a shot of the plate that accompanied the car in my link.

Thanks Wouter. The (blue) car is in the USA so I would hope Jay Cushman or others can clarify this for us. The only explanation I can think of that works is that AMGT2 was purchased by Paul Hawkins who ditched the alloy body fitted it with a GRP body - the unique footprint being the unusual (one of a kind) rear clip as featured on the blue AMGT2 I posted.

Of course, the the original Alan Mann alloy body may have been retained and that is what we see in your Goodwood photos. I'm only guessing here but it wouldn't be too difficult to switch bodies.

So, perhaps AMGT2 has 2 visual (but original) identities?

Anybody confirm this or has the Captain Morgan taken charge here?


It is rumoured :shifty: that Mr Spain is lurking around here somewhere. Of course, as I am not at all worthy I would not expect an answer from him but you are a different matter Wouter - as you are the foremost journalist and phographer of all these wonderful events/cars so I am hopeful

 

[Jay Cushman]

Thought they had unique ribbed sills, or is that just the MKII version?

The ribbed sills are on all oiginal GT40s. Allan Mann was just saving weight by not covering them with fiberglass rocker panels.

 

[Jay Cushman]

AMGT-1 is owned by Rex Myers here in the USA and about finshed at Racing Icons in Ga.

AMGT2 Was owned by Jack Launtz in Pa since the 80s until his death a few years ago. It was sold along with 1046 and repainted red and gold but I am sure the car in the pics is not either of these cars.

 

[Frank Catt]

This is the Alan Mann Superformance at my workshop, before delivery to him. Frank

 

[Keith]

AMGT-1 is owned by Rex Myers here in the USA and about finshed at Racing Icons in Ga.

AMGT2 Was owned by Jack Launtz in Pa since the 80s until his death a few years ago. It was sold along with 1046 and repainted red and gold but I am sure the car in the pics is not either of these cars.

So who/where/what is the blue car in my picture with the AMGT2 plate and the Paul Hawkins flares?

Further, then which/what is the red AM car Wouter posted shown at Goodwood revival?

As I say, it kind of makes sense if the blue car has a spare alloy body painted in AM colours. After all, AMGT2 does have 2 legitimate and famous histories.

 

[Jim Rosenthal]

What, Frank, no Webers?

 

[Jos]

Further, then which/what is the red AM car Wouter posted shown at Goodwood revival?

I may be mistaken but do you mean red 4 driven by Ferrao = 1022 ie not AM

 

[Russ Noble]

So who/where/what is the blue car in my picture with the AMGT2 plate and the Paul Hawkins flares?<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>

Further, then which/what is the red AM car Wouter posted shown at Goodwood revival?<o></o>
As I say, it kind of makes sense if the blue car has a spare alloy body painted in AM colours. After all, AMGT2 does have 2 legitimate and famous histories.

<o></o>
The blue car is definitely AMGT2 as owned by Jack Launtz. He posted some photos of it on this thread http://www.gt40s.com/forum/original-gt40s/24815-original-mkii-ex-alan-mann.html. User name "Driven"
<o></o>
Chris Melia owns the original alloy body work and is currently building a car . See http://www.gt40s.com/forum/gt40-build-logs/17871-chris-melias-mono-raiders-lost-arc.html
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<o> </o>

 

[Keith]

Yes Russ, I think that nails it from post #31 onwards although the thread is rather confusingly titled "original ex Alan Mann MKII"

So to recap. The first red car (AMGT2) posted by Doc in Germany = FAKE

The red car posted by Wouter @ Goodwood with AMGT2 History plaque = NOT AMGT2 Don't know what it is....sorry Wouter..

The blue car picture as posted by me IS AMGT2 as verified by the owner himself Jack AKA "Driven".

 

[Wouter Melissen]

Very strange. The owner of the car at the Revival last year does not seem to be someone to acquire 'fake' cars.

 

[Jay Cushman]

The blue car is AMGT-2 as owned by George Stauffer and sold to Jack it is now painted back to original Red and Gold by its new owner.

Chris Melias stuff has been sold and built but the aluminum body parts were not used and are for sale.

 

[Wouter Melissen]

The blue car is AMGT-2 as owned by George Stauffer and sold to Jack it is now painted back to original Red and Gold by its new owner.

Does that new owner go by the initials A H?

 

[Keith]

Very strange. The owner of the car at the Revival last year does not seem to be someone to acquire 'fake' cars.

There you have it Wouter!

Back to it's original paint scheme and removal of the Paul Hawkins flares.

So yes, you were spot on (as usual). I was not aware that the car had been repainted back to original and that must have been the car at Goodwood...

Thanks for the current info Jay...

So Doc, sorry mate, definitely fake...

 

[Keith]

Chris Melias stuff has been sold and built but the aluminum body parts were not used and are for sale.

Chris sold his tub? That's a shame. I got all excited about that project.

I am surprised the new owner of AMGT2 didn't go for it's original alloy body though.

 

[Russ Noble]

Although AMGT2 was not strickly 'correct' (forgetting about the paint scheme for now) in its Paul Hawkins body as, in Paul Hawkins ownership, it was fitted with an LG600. The other body is maybe more correct with the ZF.

Personally, if it was mine, I would have kept the Paul Hawkins body and refitted an LG600. That trans combined with the Paul Hawkins history was the big attraction of that car! IMHO of course!

 

[Jay Cushman]

Once again I do not beleive that AMGT-1 and/or AMGT-2 were ever raced with a LG600. I know one of the 2 was used as a MK2 test car with a 427 and a LG600. Ford tested the LG600 and felt it was not up to the task and designed the T-44 which was pretty bullet proof except for a couple inferior parts that were used at a particular time. Ford would have used the available and cheaper Hewlands like the did the ZF's if they thought they could handle the job.

I do not think any GT40 has any meaningful history with a hewland in it.

 

[Keith]

Interesting point Russ. To be honest this car's fame is inexorably linked with Hawkeye Hawkins, and I agree that would be my first choice of identity. However in the world of classic car investment and investors I guess the AM identity has a higher and more identifiable provenance? Which equals money..

But there is no denying that among enthusiasts, this GT40 in Hawkeye guise is the winningest GT40 ever..

PS Know nothing of Hewland fitting but, I must disagree with Jay if I may (ever so humbly), that when it went into Paul's (private) hands Ford had no input in the choice of trans. It is surely natural that Paul would have chosen the racing trans of choice in that era for which a full inventory of ratios and a quick change capability was key. ZF did not fulfill that requirement.

In any event, Ford was done with MKI at that time, no?

 

[Jay Cushman]

I forgot to mention I have a full set of original Paul Hawkins GT40 wheels that are extra.

 

[Jay Cushman]

PS Know nothing of Hewland fitting but, I must disagree with Jay if I may (ever so humbly), that when it went into Paul's (private) hands Ford had no input in the choice of trans. It is surely natural that Paul would have chosen the racing trans of choice in that era for which a full inventory of ratios and a quick change capability was key. ZF did not fulfill that requirement.

In any event, Ford was done with MKI at that time, no?[/QUOTE]


The gulf cars were winning bigger and more important races with ZF's if I remember correctly. I still think you will find out Paul Hawkins never won a race without a ZF in a GT40.