Barrett Jackson GT 40

[Paolo-LoveGT40 Modelworks]

damn..what a mess!
I still didnt understand if the Safir should be considered a replica or not(cause to me is hard to understand such originals..under license license of the license should be conisdered STILL original in 1985??...cause that way,all the new ones are originals too /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif)
I love to read this thread, cause 4 me is really difficult to see the difference from this nice gt40 mk5 and a brand new monocoque gt40.
Just i guess the brand new vehicle will be a LOT cheaper than 300.000usd.

Is really interesting.These replicas are definitely too near the real things,and I understand also the reasons of the original seller of the vehicle( /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cussing.gifmine is originaaaaaall!!..LOL)

what a mess!!
Paul-Italy /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif

 

[Dan W]

Ok Guys , correct me if I am off the mark,,, Weren't the MK V's built using the old molds, tooling blue prints etc that was bought from Ford (FAV). I thought I remember reading that somewhere. So if its pulled from the mold ,, its not a replica of the original. It is a original to itself, only built at a later date. Lets say Ford went out of business, and someone bought up the rights , tooling etc of the new Mustang , 2006 , and after a year started building the same car again. Would it be a replica of a mustang ? Versus someone taking a mustang pulling it apart and copying it part by part,, that would be a replica in my book. No matter what year you call it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/1poke.gif

 

[Tim Kay]

IMHO, Safir is original. Just can't claim any race history therefore the value can't be that of a '66-'68 produced car. I agree with Dan, it's built with Ford original parts and numbers (and Fords blessing) - makes it original.

I think the biggest argument comes from the '67 era car owners in that the Safir was produced much later and can't lay claim to the '67 era.

Next question is what makes "vintage"? The model year or the year it was actually built? Do Safir's qualify for vintage cars?

 

[Howard Jones]

How about we say this. Ford never sold the rights and in 2005 they took the old molds and tooling out and produced 10 more MKxx's. What would they be worth? All brand new and such. Never raced, no history, just exactly the same cars but brand new ?

In my personal view the new GT would be worth more to MOST people and if they made too many GTxx's they might sell for less than the new GT's on demand alone. Just look what is going on with the prices of the nes GT's. I believe they are down approaching 50% from the early huge dealer markup prices.

To me they wouldn't be worth a lot more than any of the current cars like the RF's RCR, CAV, MDA, ERA, etc. assuming the same specs like brakes, engine, gearbox etc.

The fact that Mario, or PJ, or Gurney drove the car is what makes it worth 10 times the price of a RF. If it beat Ferrari's, THAT WAS THE POINT, then maybe they get to 20 times or more otherwise they would just be a very good copy.

Now the safir is sorta in the middle. There IS some history, a lot of the names are the same, and the cars are well built. And they are nearly in the same era as the orginal cars. Old is worth something in this type of thing. Call it 250-300K. I do not mean to insult anyone so if I did I'm sorry.

As far as the 30 year old BFG' go, Pitch em in the can and invest in some new historic circa 1965 goodyear race tires. They would make the car a lot more original. Nice and safe also.

 

[Mike Dozier]

I suspect the Safir (lot 1314) will go across the block
sometime Saturday night...closely followed by lot 1328...
the replica 917K. Will be interesting...it's fun to watch
men with huge wallets and even larger egos go at it.

MikeD

 

I believe the actual time it crosses the block will be in the 6-7pm range Saturday evening.

I consider the GT40 MK V an original GT40 only because the experts say it is. I also am not ashamed of the fact the car was imported 9/85 and carries a legitimate J.W. Automotive ID plate, with a number assigned in the original run sequence of the GT40. Original GT 40s were built several places FAV, Holman-Moody, J.W. Automotive, Shelby? You tell me, P1075 and P1076 have identical ID plats to my car they were built by J. W. Automotive after Ford turned the reigns over to them and withdrew factory support, yes my car was built in 1985 I have never denied that. It is apparently the sixth MK V and one of the first MK V’s to receive the J.W. Automotive plate. It also has the unique split door which actually allows the roof section of the door to be removed, all should know that was not available on the MK I, II, IIB, III or IV, I never claimed this car was worth the value of one of the early GT40’s and my car has never been on a race track so I know it is not a historically significant piece, on the other hand it is going to be there and I am the one with my you know what’s on the line. I’ll be happy if it sells for anywhere near some of the preliminary numbers I have heard.

 

[Ron McCall]

I,for one,think your car is incredible! Why on earth would you sell it? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beat.gif

 

Pantera 1889-guess you must be a Pantera guy, so am I have owned four two I bought new. The first in 1973 a New 73 L while working as a mechanical engineer in the engine division of Ford motor company sold it to buy a home. The last a 72 that was still on the original MSO and I bought it from the owner of the dealership in 1985 sold it to buy our third home. The GT40 is neat, fast, smooth, great breaks, love the Weber’s, bottom line it is intimidating to drive, right hand drive has nothing to do with it the idiots on the roads cant see you, the roof is lower than the window sill on my 56 T Bird, people can hear me, they cant see me. Kind of like the Harley I used to have. I've owned it, thought I had to have it, and driven it, its time to move on. Had a terrific offer from a friend who basically has given me a guarantee and said hell take it to Barrett-Jackson this is what I’m willing to pay.

 

[Ken Mason]

Howard, isn't that exactly what Lola are doing with the T70? I.E. selling a brand new exact copy of the sixties racecar? And I believe they are selling for £160,000 a pop...

 

[Howard Jones]

Ya I guess it is. OK by me. More cool cars is better that less cool cars. I will never be in the historic league anyway. I wonder what the orginal T70 owners think about that. I mean what if Lola builds a 1000 of them? Anyway that Safir is a hell of a lot nicer car than mine. Worth a lot more too. Hell if I had the money I'd be down there tryin to buy it myself. But good ol betty is all I got and I love her!
All this garage talk is just that, don't mean a thing. Just a bunch of the boys talkin sport cars and dreamin of glory.

Good luck on your sale.

 

[Mike Dozier]

IMHO most Safir owners underestand their car will never
be valued as much as the original FAV cars. But the run up
in FAV prices will pull the value of Safirs up as well.
Maybe Saturday night will give us an idea by how much.

I think the Safirs are close enough to
FAV cars to qualify for vintage racing...whether the sanctioning bodies see it that way I do not know.

MikeD

 

[Chris Duncan]

This is a beautiful car and I hope you get whatever it's worth, however BJ's has presented it in a very misleading manner. What else is new with an American Auction.

"This is chassis number P1096 of the original 1967 GT40 MKV production run."

From this sentence anyone that doesn't know what a MkV really is would assume this car was in the original run.

"" Titled as a 1967 Ford GT MKV,""

Even though it's an '85. Funny they don't mention that.

"" Chassis number P1096 features a galvanized steel monocoque chassis, 289cid engine, claimed to be one of the best GT40's ever built.""

by who? By what criteria is it one of the best?

"has never been on a race track, accounting for its excellent condition.""

excusing the fact it has no race heritage

"" The tires are original, ""

That's nothing to brag about, a mediocre non original tire in the first place has now been drying out for 20 years. That's a spin out waiting to happen.

""The chance to own a real GT40 is rare, they hardly ever cross the auction block.""

Which definition of real is that? An original 60's car or a real exact copy? If you go by this description you better know what a MkV really is.

"" This unique automobile is a piece of history.""

Every GT40 ever built is unique including all the replica's, no two are ever alike. And every replica has just as much history as this car, which is none.

BTW what do you have in it? A local MkV owner I know has about 50K in his, of course he's a bargain hunter and put it all together himself. If you paid off the shelf prices for everything and put it together yourself you could probably do it for about 100K-150K. So if you paid to have it built it would probably be another 100K to 200K, who knows.

Flame suit on!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

"This is chassis number P1096 of the original 1967 GT40 MKV production run." I’ve already explained that you can choose to believe oit or not I actually do not care.

From this sentence anyone that doesn't know what a MkV really is would assume this car was in the original run.

"" Titled as a 1967 Ford GT MKV,"“ Even though it's an '85. Funny they don't mention that.

I have also explained that it is titled as a 67 and it was done way before my purchase by probably the original owner, the only explanation I have ever received is that in 1985 US federal laws required a 13 or 15 digit serial number to be titled as a 85, this car carries the nomenclature “GT40 P1096” on its data plate so it was titled as a 67, I did not do it. I bought it that way. I also did not supply the title BJ has used on the car I have always called it “GT40 MK V P1096” that is what it is.

"" Chassis number P1096 features a galvanized steel monocoque chassis, 289cid engine, claimed to be one of the best GT40's ever built."" by who? By what criteria is it one of the best?

The Claim that the MKV’s were the best built of the GT40’s came from Ronnie Spain I have the letter to document that quote.

"has never been on a race track, accounting for its excellent condition.""

excusing the fact it has no race heritage

That’s right no race history and I know that it has no historical race value.

"" The tires are original, "" That's nothing to brag about, a mediocre non original tire in the first place has now been drying out for 20 years. That's a spin out waiting to happen.

You are correct the tires may not be safe for any type of performance driving; I did not say they were, they are however the original tires the car was delivered with.

""The chance to own a real GT40 is rare, they hardly ever cross the auction block.""

Which definition of real is that? An original 60's car or a real exact copy? If you go by this description you better know what a MkV really is.

Ronnie Spain again consider the MK V a real GT40, so I guess it is by his definition, I would hope that anyone buying the car understands what it is, the right up I am taking and the documentation I am taking are pretty plain and pretty simple, Check the Shelby/Cobra registry, check Ronnie Spain’s book they both tell the whole story on this car, and I will have both there, I’m not hiding what this car is.

"" This unique automobile is a piece of history.""

Again not my words they belong to BJ. But I do think it is a unique automobile, I bought it, I own it I can do whatever I want with it.

Every GT40 ever built is unique including all the replica's, no two are ever alike. And every replica has just as much history as this car, which is none.

I’m not here to discuss anything other than my car, I have stated facts and they are verifiable.

BTW what do you have in it? A local MkV owner I know has about 50K in his, of course he's a bargain hunter and put it all together himself. If you paid off the shelf prices for everything and put it together yourself you could probably do it for about 100K-150K. So if you paid to have it built it would probably be another 100K to 200K, who knows.

You have a right to you opinion, In this case I own the car, I paid for it, I have driven farther than I suspect you have driven any replica yyou own, it does have documentable history, it is listed in several publications, what I paid for it is none of you business, what it sells for youcan see on Speed Vision prime time Saturday Jan 21’st. It will sell, that is why it is there and why it is no reserve, I have no flame suit and am not posting here to claim anything that is not true.

 

[John B]

Roy, YEEEHAAAA go getum!

I have been following the threads and I have to say I feel sorry for you. I on occassion have made statements /opions regarding certain issues that have risen in the past. I know your frustrations concerning the stupid idiot questions anserws that you are dealing with. I know what you have and you will get a high dollar for your car. People have nothing better to do...especially the stupid uninformed big mouths that probably don't even own a car that is on the road. GOOD LUCK with your sale and post the price for the PROZACK people in Seatle.
regards
OLIVER

 

Oliver,

Thank You, I’m not trying to argue any point I researched these cars and bought the best car I could for the money I had and wanted to spend. It is not a kit, was not bought in pieces, was not imported less a drive train, it is a complete as assembled GT 40 MKV, it was built in 1985, apparently the 6th MKV and does carry the JW Automotive VIN plate. Those are all facts; it is in the Shelby Registry and Ronnie Spains book those are also facts. Any individual that is interested enough in the car to talk to me will know that before it sells, that is also a fact.

I’m going to quit posting this was not meant as a word contest and I have no desire to be in one, life is to short and I have better things to do, I posted my initial response because a friend told me there was discussion about the car here.

 

[David Morton]

Roy,
If I had the money I'd buy your car and bring it home to Marlow (about 4 miles from where most of the Safir tubs were built in High Wycombe). I know exactly what your car is and, furthermore, I don't really see why you have to justify it to anybody. Good luck at the BJ sale.
I wish.....
I really must start buying lottery tickets.

 

[Ron Earp]

Good luck with the sale, I think it will do well as mentioned eariler. Are there any other GT40s or Cobras in the BJ auction, real or replicas?

Ron

 

[Tim Kay]

Roy,

Your car is awesome, nothing to defend here. Most of us can only dream of owning what you have.

What I would be interested to hear from you, and probably others here as well, is how the car truly handled and operated, pros and cons. Every car has it's own "personality" and it would be neat to hear about yours. (I understand if that's something you don't want to share until after it sells but even at a later date it would be interesting)

 

Tim,

I love the way the car rides, handles, the acceleration is better than a 427 FE Superformance Cobra I was the custodian of for quite some time. I never got comfortable driving it. It is so small, so low, like I said earlier they could hear me but never see me. The right hand drive never bothered me; I never took it to the track although we have a really good road course not far from my home "Hallett." The Webers are smooth, very efficient, the brakes are good, the tires stink they are hard, the car has always been in a climate controlled facility and the tires are actually better than you might suspect but they are hard. I almost ordered a set of Goodyear blue streaks for it then backed out decided I should just buy a good set of racing tires and never did. I’m not a racer have owned about everything that you can imagine with four wheels but have no love loss for racing. I think that is because I raced go karts and learned I do not like finishing second, at a young age I realized even with them if you want to compete you have to spend a lot of money. So my pride has always been in owning the best I could afford, taking care of it and enjoying it within my self imposed limits. The MK V was a perfect choice for me, I had known about it for 10 plus years it belonged to a friend, we did a trade plus cash where he got a well known unrestored 1962 Fuel Injected Corvette I owned that received the highest award available for preservation and excellence in unrestored Corvettes. Don’t miss the Corvette, I will miss the GT40. I guess there is always the possibility that it falls flat on its face and brings nothing, should that happen I could buy it back, it will cost me 16% of the high bid if I do that but it is too nice for me to give away. I can ramble forever so maybe I should say that I would be glad to try and answer any question you have about the performance or the car. I don’t think I ever had it in fourth or fifth gear, seems like third gear was pretty comfortable in the 125-130 range. I now drive a Z06 Corvette every day, so the view looking back at an older performance type car can sometimes get slanted.

 

[Paolo-LoveGT40 Modelworks]

Also I think your car is simply awesome Roy.
Just hope one day to drive one as your one, and best whishes for the sale (but plz..buy another one later /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif).

Only I know I will never sell it.

Paul-Italy