Did this really happen?

[Jim Craik]

Pete, shame on you, may I suggest that all of world war two was caused exclusively by warriors!

Stupid warriors at that.

It was the pacifists that tried to stop the war (Roosevelt, Chamberlnd)when they failed due to the warrior mentality the pacifist countries and some others were forced to put an end to the warriors stupidness.

In the last week I have heard the good people on this form say we should napalm, yes burn to death people whos only crime is trying to find a better life for themselves and there families. Now you think we should drop nuclear weapons on?

Thank God for the pacifists you people sound a lot more like the devil than warriors!

 

[Jack]

The simple threat of using more.....

 

[Bill Cooke]

SPEAK SOFTLY AND CARRY A BIG STICK.
Bill

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

Pete, shame on you, may I suggest that all of world war two was caused exclusively by warriors!

Stupid warriors at that.

It was the pacifists that tried to stop the war (Roosevelt, Chamberlnd)when they failed due to the warrior mentality the pacifist countries and some others were forced to put an end to the warriors stupidness.

In the last week I have heard the good people on this form say we should napalm, yes burn to death people whos only crime is trying to find a better life for themselves and there families. Now you think we should drop nuclear weapons on?

Thank God for the pacifists you people sound a lot more like the devil than warriors!

I shake my head, sigh.

 

[Jim Craik]

The pacifist and the warrior will never see eye to eye, or agree on anything.
Jim may I suggest the reason you are not writing in Japanese has more to do with the warriors than the pacifists.<!-- google_ad_section_end --> QUOTE] posted by Pete

In Japan in the late 1930's the "warriors" took over from the pacafists and their warrior mentality and warrior propaganda was able to convince the people that it made sense to attack the United States, Great Britan and the Netherlands on the same day! This accounts for my "stupid warriors" comment.

In Germany in the late 1930's the warriors took over from the pacifists and their warrior mentality convinced the poeple that it made sense to fight a war against all of europe and some of Asia. This accounts for my "stupid warriors" comment.

In Italy in the late 1930's.................................

...........and tens of millions died! So Pete with all due respect, tell me again what I owe to warriors!

From listening to some of the posts from the "warriors" on this site, I will be for ever so grateful that you people have the right to say these things and more grateful that no one will listen to you.

If it was not for the pacifists no one would be speaking Japanese anywhere!

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

So Pete with all due respect, tell me again what I owe to warriors!

QUOTE]

Your freedom.

 

[Jim Craik]

Pete let me explain it again, the warriors started the war.

Peaceful people like my father (who was definatly not a warrior) and probably yours rose up and put an end to the warrior mentality. Because anyone could see that the world can not afford to have warriors in charge.

We owe our freedom to the peaceful people who fought the warriors. 99% of the people who won WW2 wanted nothing more than to end this stupid war quicky and get back to their lives.

Absolulty we owe our freedom to our Military, and in this world we need a military, but thank God they do not get to call the shots.

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

I'm reminded of this old joke.

What to do if you fall into a conversation with someone about the terrorist attacks who doesn't believe in retaliation:
1. Engage in conversation, and ask if military force is appropriate.
2. When he says "No," ask, "Why not?"
3. Wait until he says something to the effect of "Because that would just cause more innocent deaths, which would be awful and we should not cause more violence."
4. When he's in mid sentence, punch him in the face as hard as you can.
5. When he gets back up to punch you, point out that it would be a mistake and contrary to his values to strike you, because that would be awful and he should not cause more violence.
6. Wait until he agrees, and has pledged not to commit additional violence.
7. Punch him in the face again, harder this time.
8. Repeat steps 5 through 8 until he understands that sometimes it is necessary to punch back

 

[Jim Craik]

SPEAK SOFTLY AND CARRY A BIG STICK.
Bill<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

Bill, explain to me how quiet dropping four nuclear bombs would be?

 

[Jim Craik]

Pete what gives you the idea that I do not want our military to retaliate.

I absolutly want the people responsable for any terrorist attack tracked down and delt with. But unfortunatly this war we have now is nothing like WW2 and you know it!

If the peole of Iraq or the people of Afganistan were responsable for these attacks I'd be the first to cry for melting them down. But to indiscriminantly kill inocent people just to make a point or make yourself feel macho, is well outside the bounds of civility.

And quite frankly a war crime.

 

[roaldin]

The bomb in this case is the first post.
The people who keep planting this bomb keep getting the same results, that's why they keep doing it.

It's all about how everybody "here" is a Christian so stay the F... away with your blah blah blah...

After the bomb is dropped the same old chain reaction occurs. That's the real joke IMO.

Sad.


Tim.

P.S. Pete,
One day I'm going to have to go for a ride with you. You may well be a right wing extremist, but we shouldn't let a little thing like that come between us.

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

Tim, I may appear to be a right wing extremist but I can assure you I am not. And you are right about the real bomb :thumbsup:. I find the whole thing amusing.

 

[Nick]

[/QUOTE]

One rather stark way of looking at the growth of Al-Qaida in Iraq is that it exposed the leadership to attack and allowed the US to cut off the head of the snake. Had we limited ourselves to Afghanistan alone, chances are excellent that most of the key leaders of Al-Qaida would still be alive. The Iraqi invasion misled the AQ leadership into thinking like conventional warriors and they attempted to take on the US and Allies in direct conflict. It was a grave mistake on their part. The Allies have done an excellent job eliminating the origional leadership and thousands of radical Islamists from around the globe.
[/QUOTE]

Garry,

I hope you are right but I expect once we pull out things will become worse than when we went in.

 

[Nick]

Too good to not chime in on.....
9/11 should have concluded years ago with four very well placed B61 nukes - big enough to get everyone's attention, yet not exactly showing off. Then it'd be up to the others to decide if they wanted to drag this one out for years to come. Proven strategy, look it up.

Doug, (and others advocating nuclear strikes, eye for an eye retaliation etc)

I am not courageous enough to be a pacifist.

We now have relative peace in Northern Ireland although the real IRA terrorists are still at large.

The original IRA got their funding from the USA, the real IRA are suspected of receiving funds from sympathizers in the United States and of attempting to buy weapons from US gun dealers.

Their murdering has been going on for years, on 15 August 1998 the RIRA left a car containing 500 lb of home-made explosives in the centre of Omagh, County Tyrone. The bomb exploded killing 29 people and injuring 220 others, in what became the single deadliest strike of the Troubles.

The terrorist activity and murdering continuous to go on and be supported by funding from the USA. Their latest attack was in April this year, the attack came weeks after the first anniversary of the shooting of two soldiers by the Real IRA at the Massereene Barracks in County Antrim.

Sappers Mark Quinsey, 23, and Patrick Azimkar, 21 were shot dead days before they were due to deploy to Afghanistan


So taking your arguments to their logical conclusion, do you really believe some well placed B61 nukes sent over to the US should put a stop to it.

"Then it'd be up to the others to decide if they wanted to drag this one out for years to come. Proven strategy"

 

[Nick]

It's all about how everybody "here" is a Christian so stay the F... away with your blah blah blah...

Tim,

From the initial post:-


'Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented.

So the blah blah blah was a corner stone of the initial post.

 

[RichardH]

The problem with any political arguement like this, is that it is seen in terms of black and white. It never is - there are so many shades of grey (gray) that one can never be right (or wrong for that matter).
I cant believe that anyone is advocating laying down and being invaded by a foreign country, just because fighting back would be "wrong", or that anyone is advocating "nuking" an entire country because a few people plant a bomb in your country.
Its like listening to teenagers .

 

[RichardH]

'Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented.

Were the Aborigines Christian, or did they have religion thrust upon them by invading outsiders?
"History is only the winning sides perspective"
"One mans terrorist is another mans Freedom fighter"

 

[Nick]

Were the Aborigines Christian, or did they have religion thrust upon them by invading outsiders?
"History is only the winning sides perspective"
"One mans terrorist is another mans Freedom fighter"

Richard,

Absolutely on both posts.

I really am trying not to be a teenager, more devil's advocate , others think they are right in their arguments I know I am.

So as I don’t think my posts are doing any good , or will change anyone’s mind, (mine included), it may be best to stay out of any discussions in future, and get back to building my 40.

Guess this makes me a limp wristed, liberal socialist not up to the fight pacifist pansy, so it's not all bad, I've been called worse!!!

 

[RichardH]

tiz always the same - with politics and religion - no one ever "wins"

 

[roaldin]

Tim,

From the initial post:-


'Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented.

So the blah blah blah was a corner stone of the initial post.

Yeah I know... Points were that it had very little to do with where these discussions end up, that its purpose is to inflame things and that the nature of the so-called "Christian" message inside it deserves some critical attention as well.
It doesn't matter to the authors/propagators where the discussion ends up as long as it creates anger.
Personally I think it got off easy with "blah blah blah". I certainly don't think it deserves more than that.

I'm sure an equivalent to the first post is even now being inserted into strategic forums etc in Muslim countries in an effort to get young, impressionable people angry enough to "martyr" themselves.
All it takes is a few unreasonable or angry people to fire up a situation with kindling like that. A closer look at that kindling and its placement and timing tells you a lot.
The angry responses it provokes quickly suck those of us who would say that anger, hate and violence are causes not solutions into the fray and suddenly it's "game on" again.

BTW Nick, these posts are me staying away from political/religious discussions... So good luck with that.
I think even Al would agree with me there...


Tim.

P.S. Forgive me if I've missed your point Nick, I am a tad low on sleep.