Engine out of chassis #103. Looking for additional info.

[Jim Rosenthal]

Re: 4 Cam 255 Indy Engine out of chassis #103. Looking for additional info.

Trevor, I am not at home and away from all my books, but I will look it up when I get home. I THINK 103 was built with a Fairlane pushrod 256 engine when new and got a 289 a bit later on. I am certain that it had a Colotti transaxle at the time it scored the first win by a GT40 (Daytona, 1965, Miles/Ruby, I think) I recall reading accounts to the effect that the transaxle had about packed it in when the car won- but it won.

Was any GT40 fitted with a 4cam Indy engine as OEM? I know that at least Jim Toensing and Bill Wonder installed them later on,Mark I cars, but I don't know that any of them had these engines from the factory. I am interested to find out. I think the mounting hardware for the 256 pushrod engine was the same as the 4cam Indy engine, which was derived from the 256, so it would make sense that someone tried it. It must have sounded amazing. I did not hear Bill's car run when I saw it and sat in it.

 

[Trevor Booth]

Re: 4 Cam 255 Indy Engine out of chassis #103. Looking for additional info.

Jim,
you may be correct, I had seen references to "255 Indy" engine in 103 when it left the factory. I have not checked where I have that but it is "somewhere" and I cant recall the source. It may have been in the post by William Wonders son when it was sold in 2005
I also recall seeing references to indy engine in early cars on this forum

Colotti box for sure was fitted at Daytona and it was driven by Miles/Ruby

 

[Andrew]

Additional Photos.

I took some additional photos of the motor a couple weeks ago. The owner is actually looking to sell it. I wasn't sure where it should be listed for sale but perhaps you gents have a better idea? Perhaps even contacting the Shelby museum to see if they would be interested seeing as it came out of that car.

 

[Dave Bilyk]

Re: 4 Cam 255 Indy Engine out of chassis #103. Looking for additional info.

Andrew, just saw this thread for the first time, puzzled the hell out of me for a minute, then read through the thread. As Rick has pointed out this is not a 4 cam engine. For clarity's sake, any chance you could remove '4 cam' from the title?

That said this is a piece of history, great thread, thanks for posting the pictures.

Dave

 

[Andrew]

Re: 4 Cam 255 Indy Engine out of chassis #103. Looking for additional info.

Dave,

Thank you. I know, I wish I could change the title. I tried shortly after discovering it wasn't a 255 Indy Engine, but to no avail. Perhaps a moderator can doctor it up?

-A

 

[Jim Rosenthal]

Re: 4 Cam 255 Indy Engine out of chassis #103. Looking for additional info.

Andrew, what you have there appears to me to be a SBF engine with GW heads and Webers on it. It seems to have the six-bolt rear flange (anyone correct me if I am mistaken, please!) which would make it a somewhat later engine. I would suggest that before trying to list it for sale that you get all the casting and date codes from the engine and all its parts. You should also get as much as you can from the Weber carbs- if they are Italian 48IDAs they are worth more. But in order to establish a value for the engine, you'll have to know when it was made and also as much as you can about the various bits that make it up, at least from the outside.

Two people who can help you are: Jay Cushman, from this forum, and JimmyMac, who knows a lot of the parts codes from all these vintage bits. As far as the carbs go, the best authority would be Jim Inglese in Connecticut, who will be able to tell you when they were made etc.

I don't know how many sets of GW heads were made, but they aren't common and they bring a lot of money. If you can establish that this is a GT40 race motor from the sixties, which it may or may not be, then it may be worth more, and if you can establish that it was in 103 when it competed in period, possibly even winning something, then it may be of value to the folks who own 103 (which I believe is the Miller Motorsports Museum, but I could be wrong) But what you want is the date and casting numbers etc- to begin figuring that all out.

 

[Andrew]

Thank you for the additional contacts Jim. We will scour the engine for any identifying numbers we can find and note them along with their corresponding part.

The story I got is that this engine was assembled with all the latest/greatest parts of it's time, hand picked by Ford and built specifically for Bill Wonder to race. The fact that it was built by Ford/Wonder implies to me that it wouldn't have seen action under FAV or Shelby's campaigns in the 64-65 seasons. More likely when Wonder raced it from 66-70.

I suppose we won't know 100% for sure until we start cross referencing some of the engine numbers/codes, but the above is my assumption based on the data I currently have.

 

[Jay Cushman]

I have known Bill Wonder for 25 years and have been selling Gurney weslake heads since 1980. This motor was put together by Bill Wonder with a used set of GW heads bought from AAR and other surplus parts he had around the shop around 1970. This engine has no conection to Shelby or Ford's GT40 racing program. It is a great engine with awsome parts but not a very correct GT40 GW engine. It has a milodon oil pan not an Aviad GT40 pan. It has incorrect 289 webber linkage adapted to fit a GW heads which will make getting full throttle on all 4 carbs nearly impossible. Check my website for the differences. It does not have the correct airbox as bill made that 1 up as needed. It is missing many of the GT40 GW original items besides linkage like breathers, oil fillers, alternator brackets, coil mount, water neck etc.

This is a 6 bolt block and all the GT series cars were built with 5 bolt blocks as the 6 bolt stuff was not even made by that time.

 

[Jim Rosenthal]

Is this a 289 or 302?