Ford Exploring Factory GTE Program, Prototype Options

[Ben Whittle]

I recall the last 2.3 Ford had in a Mustang......what a powerhouse...hehe.

seriously I have liked the recent Mustangs and it would be great to see Ford make a serious factory attempt at racing...

The 2.3L turbo EcoBoost actually has more power than the V6 such that it is being placed about the V6 in terms of model spec: V6 --> EcoBoost --> GT.

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

But the 2.3 pinto in Mustang trim I referenced certainly didn't...

 

[Mike Trusty]

I had a '86 SVO Mustang with the 2.3 turbo that I drove for years. It was quicker than the V8 mustangs of the time plus it had excellent handling, again for the time, not to mention four wheel disc brakes which was a first for the Mustang. And yes they were making over 800 hp out of this engine in the XR4ti and winning trans am races. The thing that killed that car was people could not understand why a Mustang with a four cylinder motor cost more than a V8 Mustang so they didn't buy it. Wish I still had it.

 

[Keith]

One car I wish I had owned while I had the chance: Mercury Merkur XR4ti. I went instead with a Cologne 2.8 litre V6 Ford XR4i but it was a boat anchor....
Handled great, considering you had about 400 lbs of scrap iron up front...:thumbsdown:

Can you find an XR4ti now? Can you heck..

 

[Ron Earp]

Have they managed to get it to corner yet?:lipsrsealed: :lipsrsealed:
Ian

Yep, new one and the "old" one. See 12/13 Boss vs. M3, Ford's target they surpassed for the track performance development of the Boss and certainly a worthy target as a 2dr coupe performance model. The new Mustang should be even better, although I do not feel a properly setup stick axle is a detriment on a smooth road course which is what I race on in the SE. Biased, as I race one regularly but I do get good results out of it. Definitely a difference on the street between the stick and IRS with the advantage going to the IRS unless it's a screwed up design.

The old Ford 2.3L turbo could be a really fun engine. Had one boosted in my SVO and really enjoyed the car. Also had a 85,91,95 5L Mustangs too, and loved that old motor as well, but, on the cheap the 2.3L could generate more grins with a bleed valve on the wastegate and an increase in fuel pressure.

 

[Rick Muck- Mark IV]

One car I wish I had owned while I had the chance: Mercury Merkur XR4ti. I went instead with a Cologne 2.8 litre V6 Ford XR4i but it was a boat anchor....
Handled great, considering you had about 400 lbs of scrap iron up front...:thumbsdown:

Can you find an XR4ti now? Can you heck..

There are still some around and most can be had cheap. I sold my XR4Tii (extra "i" for the intercooler setup I built) not that long ago. Very nice driving cars, good handling, comfortable and solid. If Ford had gone a little further with the car when new, i.e. better brakes, SVO power level, etc. it would have been popular. That and the fact that Ford has orphaned EVERY car they have ever imported......

 

[Keith]

I think they were only available in Germany Rick, so UK sightings will be rare. A successful UK tin top racer and race car prep guy Andy Rouse, saw the potential of the XR4ti, and did a clean sweep of the British Touring Car Championship, I mean wiped the floor with everyone by a country mile.

Another missed opportunity owing to far too much reliance on the traditional V8 in the US, and it has to be said, those clunker Euro V6's.

 

[TimB]

I had a '86 SVO Mustang with the 2.3 turbo that I drove for years. It was quicker than the V8 mustangs of the time plus it had excellent handling, again for the time, not to mention four wheel disc brakes which was a first for the Mustang. And yes they were making over 800 hp out of this engine in the XR4ti and winning trans am races. The thing that killed that car was people could not understand why a Mustang with a four cylinder motor cost more than a V8 Mustang so they didn't buy it. Wish I still had it.

By then they had figured out the turbo 2.3. We had a 1980 2.3 turbo and it broke down so many times Ford shipped it back to Michigan from California to teach a class with I still remember getting stuck just outside the LAX airport late at night when the cam lobes wore themselves circular with 20K on the clock

 

[Rick Muck- Mark IV]

By then they had figured out the turbo 2.3. We had a 1980 2.3 turbo and it broke down so many times Ford shipped it back to Michigan from California to teach a class with I still remember getting stuck just outside the LAX airport late at night when the cam lobes wore themselves circular with 20K on the clock

Ah yes, the "original" 2.3 turbo with the "suck-through" carburation! I had a couple of 79s including an Indy Pace Car and all had issues...and I was a Ford dealer! The 83 version with EFI solved most all of the problems and the water cooled turbo resolved the "heat soak" bearing coking issues.

 

[Gary Sharapata]

Another rumor was the reason Ford stopped the NHRA Funny Car sponsorship's after 2014 was to divert the funding to support some sort of sports car racing initiative in Europe to support the launch of the new 2016 Mustang that they are taking to Europe, China, Africa, Middle East etc. As stated in the thread, the rumor was a Mustang LeMans Team that supposedly didn't get approved. Keep in mind however, their Global VP of Sales and Marketing is Jim Farley (#2 under recently named CEO Mark Fields) and Farley is an active Vintage Car Racer as he has two original Cobras, GT350R and a couple other vintage race cars. He was just at LeMans racing one........Don't think we'll see another Ford GT offered to the public unless it is just a Ford Race Car as although it was a limited production run anyway our good ole government changed some regulations that affected the Ford GT whole windshield roof line design and pretty much cancelled the program.

 

[john b]

Personally, I think a Mustang vs Corvette rivalry is a joke. Corvette is a world class sportscar that has earned its place at LeMans, just like the Ford GT40. If there is a rivalry, its Mustang VS Camaro or whatever modern passenger car specifically designed with a large backseat. I would hate to see any such NASCAR cars racing at LeMans.


What if? Ford Mustang GT GTE race car

There’s a lot of backchannel chatter about Ford and the 24 Hours of Le Mans. We hear a P2 proposal is out there, just waiting to be approved. For a number of reasons, it makes sense. We also heard that someone inside floated the idea of a GT campaign, timed to to coincide with the Mustang’s 50^th anniversary, but got shut down. But minds can be changed. Here’s why we think a Ford Mustang needs to run against the world’s best GT cars at the world’s greatest endurance race.

1. The car would be spectacular

Sure, the spaceships in P1 are cool, and the insectine P2 cars have their appeal, but the GT cars evoke an entirely different sort of passion. It’s easy to see why—they’re based on real production sports cars. You know them. You see them on the street. And if you have the means, you can buy them.
They’re also wicked-looking in all the right ways. A GTE-class Mustang would be no different. The drawing above, created for us by the immensely talented Andy Blackmore, shows what a proper factory Le Mans Mustang might look like—wide, mean, and confident. With the impending arrival of the new Shelby GT350, Ford has a legitimate halo car on which to base the racer, too.

2. From a marketing perspective, it’s a no-brainer

We’re in the midst of the Mustang’s 50^th anniversary celebration, with the brand-new car landing in showrooms later this year. Interest is at a fever pitch, and the announcement of a Le Mans program would ramp it up even further.

Also remember that the 2015 Mustang finally goes global. Ford’s pony car will be sold in Europe, meaning a competition version at Le Mans wouldn’t just be an American-market novelty act. Race attendees would be able to buy their own. Ford knows that as well as anyone. Win on Sunday …
Meanwhile, stateside race fans would get to see it run against the GT big guns in the TUDOR United SportsCar Championship. Don’t think IMSA wouldn’t love to have Mustang in the mix on that race calendar.

3. Ford vs. Chevy (and Ferrari, and Porsche, and Aston Martin)

Look past P1 with its insane lunar-mission budgets and bleeding-edge technology, and it’s undeniable: The next most attractive class is GTE, thanks to the heavy manufacturer involvement. You'd have instant, juicy rivalries.
Corvette, Porsche, Ferrari, and Aston Martin all have factory-backed teams in the GTE slugfest. It only gets better if Dodge returns with its works Vipers after taking a sabbatical this year.

There’d be no shortage of “villains” for the Mustang faithful to root against and gloat over if Ford were to pull off a win.
Ford in P2 should be great, but it's not the same. A Ford-engined prototype vs. Honda, Nissan, and Judd power just doesn’t have the same cachet as, say, Mustang vs. Corvette.

4. The history is waiting to be written

There’s great Le Mans history tied to Ford and Carroll Shelby, but it’s not about the Mustang. We all know about the GT40’s incredible run from ’66 to ‘69 and about the legendary 1964 Shelby Cobra Daytona Coupe.
The Mustang? No success.
In 1967, a Shelby GT350 driven by the Belgian team of Claude Dubois and Chris Tuerlinckx completed just 58 laps. 30 years later, Steve Saleen went to Le Mans and fielded a pair of his Saleen-Allen Speedlab Mustang RRR race cars. Both were DNFs.
Ford has had great success with the Mustang in sports-car racing—think of the legendary Trans-Am cars as well as the wild IMSA GTO and GTP monsters—but it’s got no history on the sport’s grandest stage.
It’s time to change that.
Send the Mustang to Le Mans, and race to win.

Why Ford Should Race The new Mustang At Le Mans - Motorsports Commentary - Road & Track

 

[Rick Muck- Mark IV]

. I would hate to see any such NASCAR cars racing at LeMans.

It's been done.... 1976 24 Hours of Le Mans - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Americans in Paris, Nascar goes to Le Mans - Motorsport - Motor Trend Classic

 

[Ron Earp]

I'd love to see Ford race a Mustang at LeMons. No different from a BMW 3 series cars racing there in the Touring Classes or any other GT sedans that have raced in the past.

 

[Ian K]

It's been done.... 1976 24 Hours of Le Mans - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Americans in Paris, Nascar goes to Le Mans - Motorsport - Motor Trend Classic

Two NASCAR entries (Torino and Charger) and two IMSA entries (Corvette and Monza)

None of them fared too well ...

 

[Ron Earp]

There were more than just those. I was recently reading about a NASCAR driver (I think) that took a Camaro there two years running in the middle 80s.

 

Yes - photographed this at the 2006 le Mans Classic... No idea how it fared back in the day.

 

[Tom]

Personally, I think a Mustang vs Corvette rivalry is a joke. Corvette is a world class sportscar that has earned its place at LeMans, just like the Ford GT40. If there is a rivalry, its Mustang VS Camaro or whatever modern passenger car specifically designed with a large backseat. I would hate to see any such NASCAR cars racing at LeMans.

I'm in that boat as well. GTE Pro this year was 458 v. C7 v. GT3RSR v. Vantage. GTE Am was the same minus the Vettes. TUSC adds the BMW Z4.

None of these are in the same class as a heavy 4 seat Mustang. They are great to watch in the Continental series or World Challenge, but those aren't LeMans.

On a related note, I swapped cars with a friend for a short drive. I drove his '13 Mustang GT, he drove my FR-S. He was amazed at how my car can just be thrown into a corner almost without braking and how nimble it remains even at the limit (this was on stock shit tires). He said he'd definitely take me in a straight line, but I'd drop him on anything curvy.

I just wanted my car back. . .his was powerful but heavy and disconnected like driving an freight train compared to my go kart.

 

[Tom]

All Le Mans cars have high drag and low VMAX but... they do have downforce. With BOP a lot of GT cars do well. Look at the Astons. They lead the race for a long time and aren't very wedge like.

You no longer win Le Mans with VMAX especially with the two chicanes.

GTE Mustang and 2.8Liter version of the Eco Boost they're running in DP's for P2 would have great cost to generating sales for Ford. Spending 400MM USD to lose to Audi in LMP1 not so much.

I'd call an Aston a lot more wedge-shaped than a blunt nosed 'stang. Don't know about actual aero numbers though.

Dropping $ into big time racing doesn't really turn into sales at the dealership. It's not like someone is going to go, "ooh, I'll buy that Fusion over XYZ because it's got an engine like what they raced at LeMans!"

As far at GT cars doing well, look at the GTE classes this year. None of them were 4 seat muscle cars. None of them were based on street cars in the $30K price range. It's just not the Mustang league.

 

[Ian K]

There were more than just those. I was recently reading about a NASCAR driver (I think) that took a Camaro there two years running in the middle 80s.

Here ya go:

The Camaro that shocked Le Mans - Racing History - Road & Track


Ian

 

[Mike]

Here ya go:

The Camaro that shocked Le Mans - Racing History - Road & Track


Ian

red spray paint bomb overspray on seat - classic, love it.