Good and Bad ponits on Kits

[Mike Dozier]

Re: Good and Bad points on Kits

Lee

Like much of this process...it's a compromise
(unless you have unlimited funds). If you read some
of the threads in the transaxle section...you'll see a lot of banter over which box is better.

At risk of oversimplifying...here's my take:

Renault...good availability in Europe...none in the US.
Moderate cost.
Can take moderate HP in stock form..for 400 hp probably want
to upgrade (See Chris Cole in the UK)

Audi 016...good availability all over...moderate cost.
Similar HP capacity to the Renault...though some say it's higher. Biggest issue is final drive is low on these trannies. Unless you get the right box (Europe only),
you'll be in for excessive highway RPM. Fixes include
higher 5th gear from RF40...or just released....new final drive from German Transaxle of America.

Porsche G50...more expensive...decent availability.. very strong (OK for 400 hp in stock form) and good
aftermarket support for ratio selection. Tranny is installed
inverted which lowers the engine in the chassis...good for handling. Several kit makers support this tranny.

Porsche 930...even stronger than the G50...but only a 4-speed. A few members plan to use this box for track cars.
From what I can tell...price is similar to G50.

ZF...most expensive...most original. Can buy new (RBT) for big bucks. Good for 400 hp as well in stock form.

Above is one man's opinion...others may not agree.

Mike D
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

Re: Good and Bad points on Kits

Cheers Mike

Theres alot of good info there which is just what I need right now. People thought I was mad to build a cobra, now they think I've really lost my marbles. Ah Well some people just don't understand.

 

[Charlie Farley]

Re: Good and Bad points on Kits

Perhaps i should clarify my statement, so theres no misunderstanding or misrepresentation.
I believe that the days of spaceframes commanding very high resale values are coming to a close.
The emergence of affordable monocoques must put pressure on resale values.
That is what i was alluding to.
No need to answer 'bullshit', when you cant be sure , exactly what i meant.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/1poke.gif

 

[Tim Kay]

Re: Good and Bad points on Kits

[ QUOTE ]
.......I've really lost my marbles.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well Lee, you've got a home here. Hell, most of us have no marbles /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif

 

[Charlie Farley]

Re: Good and Bad points on Kits

Oh, and i forgot to add the following:
the phrase 'Had their day' was meant to mean their 'Heyday',as in unchallenged reign.
It wasnt implying that they were redundant, far from it.
Markets change when another kid arrives on the block
and im sure that spaceframes will up the ante, in return.
Dave, i must have hit a raw nerve with you, that wasnt the object
and as i know you, i also know your outburst was uncharacteristic.

 

[Howard Jones]

Re: Good and Bad points on Kits

Lee, as I see you are in the UK I would recommend that you contact the GTD club or the GT40 enthusiasts club over there. Joint one or both and attend their meetings.

Since you are in the UK then your gearbox choice becomes one of money. At 400Hp you are right at a break point in the decision process. The upgraded Renault's will take 400hp. The euro Audi's are also a good choice at this power level, but not too much more.

This leaves the Porches and the ZF's. The G50-xx will be fine at 400hp without doubt but they are more money for sure than the Audi's and Renault's. In my opinion on performance alone a worked up Porsche 50-52 inverted with a oil system and modern LSD is a more up to date and maybe a stronger gearbox than a ZF. After all the ZF is a dated design. On price I think when all is done they will be close enough in cost that the difference isn't enough to worry about given the total cost of the car.

So if for example you were to do a MDA. They are designed to take either a G50 or a ZF. The truth is if you complete one of these cars and do a good job the gearbox, ZF or G50, won't tip the overall usefulness of the car either way.

If you decide on a older design chassis that is meant for a Renault or Audi because of limited budget then they too can be completed into a quality car that would represent itself well.

The subject of what kind of car to build is one that will come to you as you do your research. If you look at lot of cars, talk to many owners and study the subject completely then at some point you choice will become clear to you.

In the end if you want a 10 and you can afford one then you will need to build one. But if a good solid 7 is where your budget is then it will be your car and you will have as much pride in accomplishment as anyone.

Enjoy the journey, the new friends, and the joy of learning. The car will be what you want it to be in the end.

Be aware that GT40's are a LOT more complicated than cobras and take this into account. I am not trying to worry you, after all my GT40 was my first car. You can do it! Just be sure that you have the time.

Again do not overlook the bodywork issue. It is the hardest part by far! If you buy a modern kit that doesn't require you to add fiberglass and generally hand fit the panels you will be much more happy with the experience. Unless you LIKE bodywork.

 

[David Morton]

Re: Good and Bad points on Kits

Andy,
It was characteristic, it wasn't an outburst and I don't intend to change my original post.
You said : "wont be surprised if their value starts to fall within the next six months/year". Give the data that you have based this statement on.
2 Monocoques in the uk at the prices you bought at doesn't amount to a whole lot of cars. Leaving RCR out of the equation as Fran's product is a different sort of mono to the one you bought, there may be a few more coming from other sources in the UK but not all that many.
I contend that space frames will always be the domain on the 'kit builder' for a many more years yet. Spaceframes are probably less than 30% of a very cheap monocoque - more likely 10% of the expensive ones -some being made in the Derby area (circa £35,000 for a tub alone and about £130k complete roller with FIA papers). Mono's are not the domain of the average guy who wants to build a GT40 lookalike.
Your intitial posting was uncharacteristic.
A raw nerve - hardly. My car is a spaceframe lookalike - not a replica. End of story - thats been done to death in previous posts a few years ago.
I note you have made changes in subsequent posts to change the original intent. But the original post was your personal opinion anyway. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif
Dave M

 

Re: Good and Bad points on Kits

Thanks Charlie for your info. I have already joined the GT40 Enthusiasts Club here in the UK and I am looking forward to making contact with members in my area as well as further afield. The warning about a GT40 being more difficult than a cobra is fair enough, but I've always found that as long as you take each job one at a time and ask enough questions you will be alright. Most people go wrong because they think they know what their doing, never ask, and then make a mistake. I came across someone who had positioned their water bottle too low by about 2 inches in a cobra, which then got in the way of the exhaust when they tried to fit them. They assumed there was enough room, and becuase they didn't have their exhaust system or an engine ready to fit, and didn't ask if there could be a problem, they made a mistake which also left holes in their nice shiny engine bay. Hence why you will see me post alot of questions.

 

[David Briggs]

Re: Good and Bad points on Kits

Kit is a relative term, the important thing is that the car you buy be more than a collection of parts flying in close formation, The package has to be well engineered and, the components designed to fit and work together to give you an overall level of performance(ie, brakes, wheels, tires, gearing, horsepower suspension, driving comfort etc. So that your car works like a Ferrari(outstanding performance everywhere) not like a Sunbeam Tiger(go like hell in a straight line, get out the prayer beads as the twisties approach!). I am not knocking Tigers, hopefully I haven't offended anyone here! I have an awesome one of those and have owned them and loved them for 38 years.
I chose the CAV because the Basic package was well engineered and would easily support the 425 hp 347 that I wanted. The chassis will support larger brakes, tires and wheels if someday I want more power and I love modifying and improving the thing. I decided not to build a kit because I am an impatient person and qiute frankly amazed to find my self still around after all these years and never want start a project that I might not outlive!
Almost all of the cars I have seen over the years, that were done right, were awesome, "begin the project with the end in mind" and you can't gp wrong.

 

Re: Good and Bad points on Kits

Thanks for your info David. You a quite right, its the end product that counts. When anybody asks me questions about Cobra kits, I always tell them that as long as they are pleased with the result, then it doesn't matter what other people think. Nobody does a perfecr kit, but you can find the best one for you and your needs.

 

[StuartB]

Re: Good and Bad points on Kits

If you look at what you get for your cash it's quite a level playing field and there are no `bad` kits these days (as far as I know).
Where one `basic` kit may score over another it'll tend to balance out in the long run and it all has to come down to how much you want to spend and how much time and cash your willing to put into getting it `right`.
This is where opinions differ, as what's `right` for one may not be `right` for another, but it's your money and your car so do it the way you want to, obviously the more you put in the better the result, but you've `been there, done that` and already know all of this, and the guys are right, time will tell with the newer stuff but that's not a lot of use to you right now is it, so...
The best bit of advise I can give, and not just based on personal experiance, is ask the wife!
Mine hates supercars, all sportscars, supercars, classics, modern, the lot, but, she didn't want me on motorbikes any more, so I gave her the options, hey! I'm a guy and I need a (another!) toy, that's life, so `a rock and a hard place` yeah, but she'd never had given the nod to spending all this building a GT40 rep` any other way.
So it was all her idea!
The more you spend and the longer it goes on the more advantages this approach has, after all, she only has herself to blame, and so do you!
Do it this way and you can't go wrong!