GT40s.com Paddock Politics Thread

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Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
What in Wikileaks proved that Clinton was conspiring with an antagonistic foreign power to swing the election in her favor?

Wikileaks stuff was basically about the primary. Why does any of that matter to a Republican?
 

Pat

Supporter
What in Wikileaks proved that Clinton was conspiring with an antagonistic foreign power to swing the election in her favor?

Wikileaks stuff was basically about the primary. Why does any of that matter to a Republican?

Please look for yourself on the site below. It makes for interesting reading and several surprises (for me anyway). Until yesterday I didn't know about many of these as they weren't covered by any of the mainstream U.S. media.

The Top 100 Most Damaging WikiLeaks

As for interest to Republicans, I agree with you Jeff. I'm baffled as to what exactly was revealed that would cause someone change their mind from Mrs. Clinton to Mr. Trump and Mrs. Clinton's assertions this was the case. What's surprising here?

As far as I can recall from media reports here's the "most damaging" of the emails revealed by WikiLeaks.

-Mr. Podesta saying the emails must be dumped on March 2nd just two days before the House Select Committee on Benghazi sent Hillary Clinton a document retention subpoena on March 4th. I think that would have that would be obstruction of justice. But did anyone seriously believe the Obama Justice Department was going to allow the prosecution of Mrs. Clinton? I can only wonder what pictures the FBI had to wade through in the examination of Mr. Weiner's laptop.

-That Mr. Podesta is not very nice in his assessment of other associates.

-The Democratic National Committee was in the tank for Mrs. Clinton favoring her over Mr. Sanders. A casual observer of the superdalegates would confirm that without WikiLeaks.

-That Ms. Brazile gave her debate questions ahead of time.
-That Mr. Sanders is an atheist and not a bona fide progressive much less a real democrat.
-That he is held in contempt by many Clinton staffers as well as then DNC Chair Ms. Wasserman-Shultz. That the DNC had Sanders insiders providing them information on his campaign.

-Collusion between the DNC and mainstream media, with party officials on record instructing mainstream media what to do and say. Is this a surprise to anyone?

-The DNC planned a fake Craigslist ad for women to work for Mr. Trump replete with sexist requirements. I thought that pretty amusing.

-E-mails reveal top Clinton officials speaking derisively about Evangelical Protestants and plotting against the Catholic Church. This is nothing new. Mrs. Clinton in a 2015 speech said “…And deep-seated cultural codes, religious beliefs and structural biases have to be changed.” And goes on to say that the change of Christian beliefs is the “unfinished business of the 21st century.”

-That Mr. Obama’s fundraising help was seen as insufficient.

None of these are the blockbuster that the Access Hollywood tape of Mr. Trump's lewd conversation was. It should have doomed him and there are a lot of interesting theories as to why it didn't. Some include Mr. Clinton.

So which could have had the greater impact in manipulating the election?

The WikiLeaks, even if it was instigated by the Russians.

The media, NBC in this case, sitting on the Access Hollywood tape for eleven years and springing it, not in the Republican primary when it would have advantaged his party rivals. It may have hopefully allowed for a more appropriate nominee. But that would have seemingly put Mrs. Clinton at a marked disadvantage in the general election. One can only speculate how many votes it cost Mr. Trump.

Personally, I believe the election took a swing on two simple things.

The untimely death of Antonin Scalia and the opening on the Supreme Court (every conservative I've spoken to gave this as the #1 reason to vote Trump).

Mrs. Clinton's "deplorables" speech. It motivated a lot of people to vote that would have stayed home the way they did for Mr. Romney (not unlike his 47% remark).

The book "Shattered: Inside Hillary Clinton's Doomed Campaign" by Jonathan Allen & Amie Parnes suggests the Clinton Campaign was deeply flawed and probably doomed from the start. I'm only half way through it but it's truly alarming. I'm left with the depressing question as to why is it that a nation of our talent and intellectual capital can only come up with no-win choices like Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Trump.

Jerry Garcia of the Grateful Dead once said that choosing the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil.
 

Randy V

Moderator-Admin
Staff member
Admin
Lifetime Supporter
So I've asked this question before but the question remains largely unanswered -

Who corroborates the information produced by Wikileaks?

Moreover - in this day and age of Photoshop, et al., would it not be rather easy to fake this information?
 

Terry Oxandale

Skinny Man
I think that Wikileak's mission is more aligned with transparency of truthful information for all, rather than propagation of "fake news". Whether they scrub the info for accuracy is unknown.
 

Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 72, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
I'm left with the depressing question as to why is it that a nation of our talent and intellectual capital can only come up with no-win choices like Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Trump.

I have thought exactly that for over a year...we must look like fools to the rest of the world.

Jerry Garcia of the Grateful Dead once said that choosing the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil.

Veek, that is one of the best Jerry Garcia quotes I have ever heard...it will go into long-term memory and I will most assuredly repeat it many times. We had no good choices this past election, so we had to choose the one who was the least "evil"...although I think the jury is out on whether or not we managed to do that... :eek:

Jerry is one of my favorite musicians of all time...I proudly wear his neck-ties (most people don't know that Jerry was an art major before he became a famous musician...Macy's carries a huge selection of Jerry Garcia ties, all of which carry his artwork!!).

Cheers!

Doug
 

Randy V

Moderator-Admin
Staff member
Admin
Lifetime Supporter
And you can go to Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream and order up a couple pints of Cherry Garcia !!!
 

Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 72, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
...and it's damn good stuff, Randy!!

Cheers to Jerry...wherever his spirit may be!

Doug
 

Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 72, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
Well, it was on the news this morning that President Trump has signed off on additional "sanctions" against North Korea.

I must admit, I'm impressed...not that I have ANY hope at all that their leader will cave in due to these additional sanctions, but the fact that OUR leader has chosen to act with some modicum of restraint is encouraging. I was expecting him to want to flex his "...Presidential muscle" and start with military action. I say "Cheers to him" for starting in this manner, he does not seem to be the sort who would engage in futile efforts, which this will certainly be, but this IS the place to start...he can certainly escalate from here and if and when he does need to use the military option there can be no reason to criticize him for failing to try diplomatic measures first.

Never thought I'd be saying those things...... :eek:

Color me pleasantly surprised!!!

Cheers for POTUS DT!!

Doug
 

Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 72, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
Hi
We are having a general election in the UK. Just thought I would mention it
Cheers
Malcolm

France too!

I was reading a bit about the upcoming European elections...particularly the one in France, where it would be difficult for the differences between the two candidates to be more pronounced!!!

There is less to be read about the UK election, Malcolm...can you fill us in?

Cheers!

Doug
 
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Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 72, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
Well, the far right failed to prevail in France!

It is nice to see this sort of "international diversity" given the course our nation has taken!

Cheers!!

Doug
 
I was reading a bit about the upcoming European elections...particularly the one in France, where it would be difficult for the differences between the two candidates to be more pronounced!!!

There is less to be read about the UK election, Malcolm...can you fill us in?

Cheers!

Doug

Well Doug hope you can see these videos a lady from my neck off the woods summing it up for many. Also how our politicians will be dealing with it.

Election 2017: "NOT ANOTHER ONE!" Brenda from Bristol's reaction - YouTube

NNN Politicians - YouTube
 

Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 72, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
Brenda has much the same reaction as most of my friends did after our most recent election..."This won't do!"

As for the NNN video...LOL!!!...we can only hope here in the U.S., Nick!

France refused to endorse the far right in their election...but the winner sounds very much like our current POTUS in regards to his plans (although the plans of our POTUS seem to change every time the wind changes direction or speed...we never know what he'll do next!..and he "...likes to keep us guessing" (his own words).

You Brits are much more polite in your discussions than we are...It's refreshing to see that others can discuss politics without feeling like they must CHANGE the opinion of the party with whom they are discussing. Cheers to you across the pond!

Doug
 
Brenda has much the same reaction as most of my friends did after our most recent election..."This won't do!"

As for the NNN video...LOL!!!...we can only hope here in the U.S., Nick!

France refused to endorse the far right in their election...but the winner sounds very much like our current POTUS in regards to his plans (although the plans of our POTUS seem to change every time the wind changes direction or speed...we never know what he'll do next!..and he "...likes to keep us guessing" (his own words).

You Brits are much more polite in your discussions than we are...It's refreshing to see that others can discuss politics without feeling like they must CHANGE the opinion of the party with whom they are discussing. Cheers to you across the pond!

Doug

Doug,

My goddaughter has just finished her masters in Canada and posted this on facebook, I thought it was very good, not sure I can live up to it though ;)

And so it has finally come to pass that I have completed my masters degree in Educational Psychology!

So what have I learned throughout the course of my degree? Learning is lifelong process that doesn't stop just because you've left the educational system, we learn a lot more than we often realise from reflecting upon our life experiences. We develop a deeper understanding of ourselves and the world around us from listening to those with perspectives other than our own by trying to see the world through their eyes, not from listening selectively to only that which conforms with our existing beliefs. We become better people from learning from those we care about and emulating the qualities that we admire about them. Education is far more than just what we learn in the classroom, it is everything that we take from the world around us and allow to become a part of ourselves. It is the balance we choose to strike between ourselves, the world we live in, and the values that inform the very way that we choose to live. We must be as willing to face up to ourselves and our own assumptions and prejudices that have become internalised across the course of our lifespans’ from a lack of vigilance and critical thought upon the information we are presented with as we are to challenge the preconceptions of others around us. After all, if we aren’t willing to change ourselves in the process of navigating our lives then how else do we expect to adapt to a rapidly changing world?

Slightly of topic but us Brits can get pretty riled up when provoked.

Joe Lycett on getting out of parking fines - YouTube
 

Keith

Moderator
Brenda has much the same reaction as most of my friends did after our most recent election..."This won't do!"

As for the NNN video...LOL!!!...we can only hope here in the U.S., Nick!

France refused to endorse the far right in their election...but the winner sounds very much like our current POTUS in regards to his plans (although the plans of our POTUS seem to change every time the wind changes direction or speed...we never know what he'll do next!..and he "...likes to keep us guessing" (his own words).

You Brits are much more polite in your discussions than we are...It's refreshing to see that others can discuss politics without feeling like they must CHANGE the opinion of the party with whom they are discussing. Cheers to you across the pond!

Doug


Did you seriously think for one moment that France would shift to the Right? You are having a giraffe mate...:laugh:

As regards discussing politics in the UK and depending where you are, some of us learned years ago to keep our opinions to ourselves. Remember, the Vote was made anonymous for a very good reason.

The amusing thing in Britain, is to watch people tying themselves in knots trying to guess which way each other votes. Some make it easy, while others, myself included, are a little more circumspect. My politics is my business, no-one else's, and locally, at least, I can argue both sides of the 'fence' . As has been alluded to on GT40s many times, attempting to influence how another person thinks or votes is probably harder than pushing shit uphill with your chin.

So why bother? Beats me but we have had infinitesimal amounts of bandwidth wasted here in pursuit of that very aim - ad infinitum ad nauseum...
 

Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 72, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
Did you seriously think for one moment that France would shift to the Right? You are having a giraffe mate...:laugh:

As regards discussing politics in the UK and depending where you are, some of us learned years ago to keep our opinions to ourselves. Remember, the Vote was made anonymous for a very good reason.

... My politics is my business, no-one else's, and locally, at least, I can argue both sides of the 'fence' . As has been alluded to on GT40s many times, attempting to influence how another person thinks or votes is probably harder than pushing shit uphill with your chin.

So why bother? Beats me but we have had infinitesimal amounts of bandwidth wasted here in pursuit of that very aim - ad infinitum ad nauseum...

Well, Keith, I have very little knowledge of the political workings in countries other than the U.S., that is why I ask you Europeans to explain things to me. Your system is much different than ours...I REALLY wish we had a "No confidence" opportunity...believe me, with his approval ratings in the 30% range here in the U.S. (and cries for him to be impeached for firing the head of the FBI "Comey", making him look every bit as guilty as Nixon looked when he fired the Independent Investigator, which lead to his resignation, as the proverbial "IMPEACH" handwriting was all over the walls of our Congress), our present POTUS would have a very difficult time believing that he was on the way out. There was a very famous movie about Nixon and his interviews with a journalist ("Frost/Nixon" was the name of the movie...IIRC David Frost was a British journalist, wasn't he?) and the most memorable line of the movie when asked about the illegal actions involved in the Watergate scandal was "When the President does it, it's NOT illegal". That sort of impunity is one of the mis-judgements our current POTUS has made...let's see if it comes back to haunt him much as Nixon's mis-judgements haunted him.

We Americans are rather pre-occupied (possessed???) with our politicians and their actions...for better or worse, I don't know, it just is. I think our problem here in the U.S., given that we have a constitutional right to "Freedom of Speech", is that we misinterpret that to mean that we ought to be able to say anything with impunity. We do have laws against slander and libel, but I never hear about any charges being brought, other than in civil courts...but, with our right to speak I believe we think that means we ought to use that freedom to change others' opinions.

What a futile effort that can be! Here on the forum we've lost the input of great believers on both sides of the fence during our conversations (Jim C. and Larry L., whom I haven't seen for a while), so the political lines are blurred in regards to who is "right" and who is "wrong"...neither, in my opinion, I just believe that each person is entitled to their opinion and I can state my disagreement with it or my agreement with it, but that is all I care to do, I don't want to change anyone's opinion...in fact, it is one of those things that nobody can change except for the person who has the opinion.

We compare those futile efforts here in the U.S. to "trying to push a chain" or "trying to lead a cat on a leash"...neither is very productive, but incredibly frustrating.

We have yet to adopt the "gentleman's approach" that you Europeans have in which you can agree to disagree AMICABLY...we're too tied up in knots over the issues :idea:

My, my, my...yes, it's a fine mess we've gotten ourselves into!

Cheers!

Doug
 
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