GTD brake upgrade
- Thread starter Curt
- Start date
Howard Jones
Supporter
Paul I used the little single puck mechanical Wilwood spot caliper. I added a spacer to work with the 1.25" rotor. These are only good for passing a visual inspection and not really man enough for holding the car on anything but flat ground. Of course this just my opinion.
Wilwood Billet Spot Calipers 120-2281 - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing
Wilwood Billet Spot Calipers 120-2281 - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing
Hi Howard
The MC4 seems a much better design than the spot caliper with a floating caliper, much bigger pad area and decent mechanical advantage. I've only just installed it, and haven't tested on a hill or anything like that yet but I can tell holding power is far superior than the Ford Scorpio handbrake I used to have (mounted on Gardner Douglas uprights). My car (not a GT40) is possibly lighter than yours, but I'll report back when I give it a real world test
Paul
The MC4 seems a much better design than the spot caliper with a floating caliper, much bigger pad area and decent mechanical advantage. I've only just installed it, and haven't tested on a hill or anything like that yet but I can tell holding power is far superior than the Ford Scorpio handbrake I used to have (mounted on Gardner Douglas uprights). My car (not a GT40) is possibly lighter than yours, but I'll report back when I give it a real world test
Paul
Got all the parts now from Rally Design now.
Went for the blank bells which are designed by Rally Design and can be adapted to the offset towards the calliper by machining the material. They come in 3 offset ranges.
Professional Motorsport Parts, Spares & Rally Equipment from Rally Design
Small attention is the accuracy required during machining, not easy...
Also herewith the adapter plate for the lug mounted calliper + handbrake.
QUESTION: What material are you using for adapter plate? Steel? Which thickness, type? Or could I go with Aluminium like 6082 T6 ?
Went for the blank bells which are designed by Rally Design and can be adapted to the offset towards the calliper by machining the material. They come in 3 offset ranges.
Professional Motorsport Parts, Spares & Rally Equipment from Rally Design
Small attention is the accuracy required during machining, not easy...
Also herewith the adapter plate for the lug mounted calliper + handbrake.
QUESTION: What material are you using for adapter plate? Steel? Which thickness, type? Or could I go with Aluminium like 6082 T6 ?
Some time ago, on this forum, I came across this sketch posted by Darren. Disc bell for Granada hub, with the offset. Designed for this kind of rotor
Wilwood High-Performance Disc Brakes - Rotor No: 160-3846
Please post pictures of your parts, and of your machining work. I'm in the process to do the same in one month or two, so I'm quite interesting in what you're doing ! :thumbsup:
@Pierre,
The bell you show here is from the 6pot upgrade kit from Rally design = BK5E
Professional Motorsport Parts, Spares & Rally Equipment from Rally Design
So this is replacing the front Granada MkII brakes without modifications necessary.
The modifications + adapter are for my rear brakes. See drawing of the rear hub carrier on post nr1 named: Hub_carrier.pdf
I also bought the handbrake MC4 from Wilwood to go with.
But basically you can use the same principle to get the lug callipers to fit. X-Y alignment is done with a plate and the axial Z alignment is done with machining the Bell planes.
I will make drawing for machining the rear bells.
Nobody a tip on adapter plate? I was thinking on using a 10mm alu 6082 T6 plate?
The bell you show here is from the 6pot upgrade kit from Rally design = BK5E
Professional Motorsport Parts, Spares & Rally Equipment from Rally Design
So this is replacing the front Granada MkII brakes without modifications necessary.
The modifications + adapter are for my rear brakes. See drawing of the rear hub carrier on post nr1 named: Hub_carrier.pdf
I also bought the handbrake MC4 from Wilwood to go with.
But basically you can use the same principle to get the lug callipers to fit. X-Y alignment is done with a plate and the axial Z alignment is done with machining the Bell planes.
I will make drawing for machining the rear bells.
Nobody a tip on adapter plate? I was thinking on using a 10mm alu 6082 T6 plate?
After the holidays, time for some status:
Materials used:
From Rallydesign: http://www.rallydesign.co.uk
MC4 Mechanical Parking Brake Caliper Wilwood (MC4) L=120-12069 R= 120-12070
2 x 4 - Pot Dynalite Caliper Wilwood Lug Mount 1.38" (DYNALITE) 120-6806
1 x DYNALITE 4-Pot - Smart Pads - BP10 (150-8850K)
1 x Granada MK2 - Billet 6-Pot - 300mm Vented Kit (BK5E)
1 x Smart Pad BP10 - Wilwood Supersix - 6-Pot (150-8855K)
2 x UNIVERSAL BELL - Offset Range 10-20 (UNIV 15)
2 x 11.75" (298.5) Diam - UL Straight Vane Rotor 160-5841
1 x 7/8" Bore Combination Remote M/C Kit (260-3376)
2 x 1" Bore Combination Remote M/C Kit (260-3378)
They were very responsive and helpful. Also via mail a quick response and good price
From Furore: https://furoreproducts.co.uk/custom-brake-hose
4X brake lines
From Carbuilder solutions Car Builder Solutions - Kit Car Parts and Accessories
All bits and bites. Brake lines and connectors.
A lot of useful parts with good quality.
From Southern GT Southern GT - Manufacturer of the new Southern GT40 Replica-cv7kmgvcmd71brcbbtjl4k3fo7
Pedal box Hand made to fit the GTD frame.
1/6 ratio.
From Hayen Laser Technology HAYEN LASER TECHNOLOGY (BELGIUM)
The laser cut adapter plates
To fit the GTD40:
- For the front I went for the 6pot kit because it was..... a kit... But actually I still had to cut and past to make it fit. The calliper is to long and hit the lower arm. The adapter block only lifts the calliper radial but it also should turn to become higher away from the lower arm.
Here I also could have make your own adapter and choose whatever calliper I like...........:drunk:
- For the rear I used a 8mm steel plate to position the caliper radial in position. Also to fit the hand brake MC4 on it.
Found a laser shop in the neighbourhood where you can send a DXF. What you do not find at Willwood are required tolerances. You need some loops to get it in a <0.1mm range. I needed 3 mock up's to make it fit correctly.
Also the universal bells I ordered needed to be machined. Tolerances here are the radial and axial run-out of 0.05mm (on disc). Quite challenging because you need to reposition (front/rear) of the bells in the machine.
So the machineshop (friend of mine) told me that making a 3D drawing of the required bell and providing a STEP file would be easier and from price the same. So I also made it 3D in case they messed up the bells. Alu material should be minimum HE30 grade or 6082 t6 (also input Rallydesign)
BTW: For people who do not have access to 3D, here is a good free parametric 3D prog: FreeCAD: An open-source parametric 3D CAD modeler
- Tricky point is also the play needed between bell/disc (recommendation of Rallydesign). 1mm play on diameter is needed to prevent cracking the disk. So when mounting bell/disc some shims are needed to achieve the 0.05 radial run-out.
- Bolts must be of good quality at least 12.9. with self locking nuts of the same grade.... Your life depends on it.
Pedal box and master cylinders:
- To fit a pedal box in an already build car was more challenging then I thought. Also here a lot of cut/ past to make it fit. Nice thing is that you get the COMPLETE freedom how to position the pedals. It took me a while to finetune.
- According calculations with this Excel I needed 1" front 7/8" back. But this was quite theory. In praxis to much force needed. Pedal ratio in praxis is much lower. Your foot is pushing higher depending floor clearance.
I ended up with 0.75 front 0.70 rear, but still room for improvement. I wait till I get my new rear tires. I was also so clever to install new tires in the front and starting to test the brakes. Not a good idea... tires also need a run-in time!!!:thinking2:
-I also liked the Wilwood 260-3376 master cylinders? No bench bleeding needed and you can always bleed the system on the highest point where air accumulates..
- In general the brakes feel more direct and confident than with the boosters.
A BIG THANKS to everybody for the input.:thumbsup:
So nxt step is the suspension...rockonsmile
Materials used:
From Rallydesign: http://www.rallydesign.co.uk
MC4 Mechanical Parking Brake Caliper Wilwood (MC4) L=120-12069 R= 120-12070
2 x 4 - Pot Dynalite Caliper Wilwood Lug Mount 1.38" (DYNALITE) 120-6806
1 x DYNALITE 4-Pot - Smart Pads - BP10 (150-8850K)
1 x Granada MK2 - Billet 6-Pot - 300mm Vented Kit (BK5E)
1 x Smart Pad BP10 - Wilwood Supersix - 6-Pot (150-8855K)
2 x UNIVERSAL BELL - Offset Range 10-20 (UNIV 15)
2 x 11.75" (298.5) Diam - UL Straight Vane Rotor 160-5841
1 x 7/8" Bore Combination Remote M/C Kit (260-3376)
2 x 1" Bore Combination Remote M/C Kit (260-3378)
They were very responsive and helpful. Also via mail a quick response and good price
From Furore: https://furoreproducts.co.uk/custom-brake-hose
4X brake lines
From Carbuilder solutions Car Builder Solutions - Kit Car Parts and Accessories
All bits and bites. Brake lines and connectors.
A lot of useful parts with good quality.
From Southern GT Southern GT - Manufacturer of the new Southern GT40 Replica-cv7kmgvcmd71brcbbtjl4k3fo7
Pedal box Hand made to fit the GTD frame.
1/6 ratio.
From Hayen Laser Technology HAYEN LASER TECHNOLOGY (BELGIUM)
The laser cut adapter plates
To fit the GTD40:
- For the front I went for the 6pot kit because it was..... a kit... But actually I still had to cut and past to make it fit. The calliper is to long and hit the lower arm. The adapter block only lifts the calliper radial but it also should turn to become higher away from the lower arm.
Here I also could have make your own adapter and choose whatever calliper I like...........:drunk:
- For the rear I used a 8mm steel plate to position the caliper radial in position. Also to fit the hand brake MC4 on it.
Found a laser shop in the neighbourhood where you can send a DXF. What you do not find at Willwood are required tolerances. You need some loops to get it in a <0.1mm range. I needed 3 mock up's to make it fit correctly.
Also the universal bells I ordered needed to be machined. Tolerances here are the radial and axial run-out of 0.05mm (on disc). Quite challenging because you need to reposition (front/rear) of the bells in the machine.
So the machineshop (friend of mine) told me that making a 3D drawing of the required bell and providing a STEP file would be easier and from price the same. So I also made it 3D in case they messed up the bells. Alu material should be minimum HE30 grade or 6082 t6 (also input Rallydesign)
BTW: For people who do not have access to 3D, here is a good free parametric 3D prog: FreeCAD: An open-source parametric 3D CAD modeler
- Tricky point is also the play needed between bell/disc (recommendation of Rallydesign). 1mm play on diameter is needed to prevent cracking the disk. So when mounting bell/disc some shims are needed to achieve the 0.05 radial run-out.
- Bolts must be of good quality at least 12.9. with self locking nuts of the same grade.... Your life depends on it.
Pedal box and master cylinders:
- To fit a pedal box in an already build car was more challenging then I thought. Also here a lot of cut/ past to make it fit. Nice thing is that you get the COMPLETE freedom how to position the pedals. It took me a while to finetune.
- According calculations with this Excel I needed 1" front 7/8" back. But this was quite theory. In praxis to much force needed. Pedal ratio in praxis is much lower. Your foot is pushing higher depending floor clearance.
I ended up with 0.75 front 0.70 rear, but still room for improvement. I wait till I get my new rear tires. I was also so clever to install new tires in the front and starting to test the brakes. Not a good idea... tires also need a run-in time!!!:thinking2:
-I also liked the Wilwood 260-3376 master cylinders? No bench bleeding needed and you can always bleed the system on the highest point where air accumulates..
- In general the brakes feel more direct and confident than with the boosters.
A BIG THANKS to everybody for the input.:thumbsup:
So nxt step is the suspension...rockonsmile
Attachments
Excellent job Curt, thanks for sharing these precious infos... They 'll save me time (and money) !
Do you think a 4 pot caliper could be hitting the lower arm, as the 6 pot you've used ?
May I dare to ask you if you would share your 3D sketches ?
:bow:
Do you think a 4 pot caliper could be hitting the lower arm, as the 6 pot you've used ?
May I dare to ask you if you would share your 3D sketches ?
:bow:Hello Pierre,
Of course you can have all info. I'll sent you a PM..:thumbsup:
About the 4pot. Sorry it is not the Calliper that is too big but the bracket, my mistake. The standard bracket is to long and is touching the lower suspension arm.
Also important is to check the clearence with the wheel inner diameter with 15' wheels. Especially whit the MC4's parking brake.
Of course you can have all info. I'll sent you a PM..:thumbsup:
About the 4pot. Sorry it is not the Calliper that is too big but the bracket, my mistake. The standard bracket is to long and is touching the lower suspension arm.
Also important is to check the clearence with the wheel inner diameter with 15' wheels. Especially whit the MC4's parking brake.
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