Healthcare

Your question about how the bill of $25k sent them into BK was mine as well. I mean that is only about the cost of a nice "middle class" new car. Maybe people deciding to work the system? I don't know. Doesn't sound right to me.

The HSA works great. One of the best parts is the fact that my deductable is lower than the max yearly contribution. Therefore, even if I max out my out of pocket expenses, I still am saving a little nest egg that is one of the only investments I know of that is triple tax free. It goes in tax free, grows tax free, and can be used for medical expenses tax free. I HATE taxes.
 

Jim Rosenthal

Supporter
From my perspective as a patient, a family member of several patients, and as a practicing physician in emergency medicine for nearly twenty-five years, the following:

1) the idea that litigation against physicians or hospitals is responsible for excess medical care costs is not true. I agree that we physicians order a lot of tests and do a lot of things in an effort to avoid getting sued, but the most reliable figures I have been able to find show that the overall cost of med mal litigation, the things we do to try to avoid it, etc, are very small- one percent or less of the medical care spending in the USA. What frivolous suits waste is time more than money- but as someone who's done this for years and fifty thousand hours or more, I can tell you that there is quite a bit of bad medicine out there. And of course there are a lot of bad outcomes, too, but not every bad outcome is evidence of medical negligence.

2) From a purely financial perspective, it is cheaper over the long haul to regulate medical spending by insuring everyone than by having a large group of uninsured patients who we all subsidize. I see the evidence of this every day in the ED. You'll have to trust me on this one, but I firmly believe that it will serve all of us (not just the uninsured etc) better if we bite the bullet, insure everyone, and then have some leverage with which to regulate medical expenses. This is independent of politics or party persuasion. If you have one-sixth of the population uninsured and without resources, AND you have a situation where ERs are obligated to treat everyone and can
t turn anyone away, AND you have a mechanism whereby providers can refuse to treat patients in a non-emergency situation, you end up funneling everyone into the emergency care part of the system, with the kinds of predictable results that we've all seen- dismal ones.

3) Al points out that that marginal or doubtfully qualified people get into medical school. I'd differ with that. The number of people applying to medical schools is so much larger than the number accepted that at least academically, the people graduating are qualified. Whether or not they will make compassionate and effective physicians is something altogether different- but they are at least intellectually qualified. Frankly, being smart is not the essential element here- while you have to be intelligent to be a doctor, you don't have to be brilliant. What IS essential is that a good doctor is thorough, and compassionate- empathetic might be a better term- and those qualities are rather difficult to screen for or test for when determining who gets into medical school.

4) You'd be surprised at how many physicians support universal medical insurance. I do. And while my politics are somewhat liberal, they are not radical at all. As a physician, I see my job as taking care of everyone who needs it, whether or not they are able to pay. I don't think medical care should be reserved for the employed, or the young, or the old, or the wealthy. After all, we're all going to get sick and die someday; it's built in. We might as well face reality and make the best arrangements in advance that we can, shouldn't we? Such arrangements involve facing up to the idea that it's going to happen to all of us.

5) Most of the uninsured people I see in ERs are working. They are not unemployed, they are not parasites, and they are not typically people who abuse their own health. They just don't have any medical insurance.

6) One of the things that drives excess health care spending is physician greed. This is clearly documented and unfortunately quite true. Allowing the fox to guard the henhouse usually results in fat foxes and fewer hens. Our situation with respect to allowing physicians to order procedures and tests from which they handsomely profit is unfortunately no different. It's something we badly need to fix.
 
Jim, If we all pay for the uninsured now, I don't see the difference if we all pay for the same people through a healthcare plan. As I said, in AZ we have The Access Plan for the uninsured, and we pay for it. I like the idea of choosing my Doctor, and if I need a MRI (which I did just recently, it was available in 6 days) not having to wait a long time. When I needed a total knee replacement, I researched a lot and found a specialist that had done 100s with no complaints. I really wouldn't want a first timer for that operation or any other. I think you misunderstood what I said about medical school. A small percentage of Doctors graduate at the top of their class. There are people in the middle of the class, and there are those that just get by. I would prefer to have the middle to the top working on me, the also rans are probably the ones with the higher screwup probability. I alway wondered why good Doctors protect the bad Doctors, they are the ones that keep the malpractice insurance high.
Also, Obama said that if you have a private insurance plan now and that if you are happy with it, "You can keep it". That's a lie! On page 16 of the bill it says that if your plan changes in any way, coverage, new insurance carrier, etc, any change, you will be forced to accept the government plan.
 
Last edited:
A Doctors perspective.


Stephen Fraser

July 23, 2009


Senator Bayh,

As a practicing physician I have major concerns with the healthcare bill before Congress. I actually have read the bill and am shocked by the brazenness of the government's proposed involvement in the patient physician relationship. The very idea that the government will dictate and ration patient care is dangerous and certainly not helpful in designing a healthcare system that works for all. Every physician I work with agrees that we need to fix our healthcare system, but the proposed bills currently making their way through congress will be a disaster if passed.

I ask you respectfully and as a patriotic American to look at the following troubling lines that I have read in the bill. You cannot possibly believe that these proposals are in the best interests of the country and our fellow citizens.


Page 22 of the HC Bill: Mandates that the Govt will audit books of all employers that self insure!!

Page 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get.

Page 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill: YOUR HEALTH CARE IS RATIONED!!!


Page 42 of HC Bill:The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC Benefits for you. You have no choice!

Page 50 Section 152 in HC bill: HC will be provided to ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise

Page 58 HC Bill: Govt will have real-time access to individuals finances & a National ID Healthcard will be issued!

Page 59 HC Bill lines 21-24: Govt will have direct access to you ur banks accounts for elective funds transfer.

Page 65 Sec 164: is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in Unions & community organizations: (ACORN).

Page 84 Sec 203 HC bill: Govt mandates ALL benefit packages for private HC plans in the Exchange.

Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill: Specifications for of Benefit Levels for Plans = The Govt will ration your Healthcare!

Page 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill: Govt mandates linguistic appropriate services. Example - Translation: illegal aliens.

Page 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18: The Govt will use groups i.e., ACORN & Americorps to sign up individuals for Govt HC plan.

Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill: Specifications of Benefit Levels for Plans. AARP members - your Health care WILL be rationed.

Page 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill: Medicaid Eligible Individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice.

Page 124 lines 24-25 HC: No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No "judicial review" against Govt Monopoly.

Page 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill: Doctors/ American Medical Association - The Govt will tell YOU what you can make! (salary)

Page 145 Line 15-17: An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into public option plan. NO CHOICE!

Page 126 Lines 22-25: Employers MUST pay for HC for part time employees AND their families.

Page 149 Lines 16-24: ANY Employer with payroll 401k & above who does not provide public option pays 8% tax on all payroll.

Page 150 Lines 9-13: Business's with payroll btw 251k & 401k who doesn't provide public option pays 2-6% tax on all payroll.

Page 167 Lines 18-23: ANY individual who doesn't have acceptable HC according to Govt will be taxed 2.5% of income.

Page 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill: Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay)

Page 195 HC Bill: Officers & employees of HC Admin (GOVT) will have access to ALL Americans finances /personal records.

Page 203 Line 14-15 HC: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax" Yes, it says that!

Page 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill: Govt will reduce physician services for Medicaid Seniors, low income and poor are affected.

Page 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill: Doctors, doesn't matter what specialty you have, you'll all be paid the same!

Page 253 Line 10-18: Govt sets value of Doctor's time, proffession, judgment etc. Literally value of humans.

Page 265 Sec 1131: Govt mandates & controls productivity for private HC industries.

Page 268 Sec 1141: Federal Govt regulates rental & purchase of power driven wheelchairs.

Page 272 SEC. 1145: TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS - Cancer patients - welcome to rationing!

Page 280 Sec 1151: The Govt will penalize hospitals for whatever Govt deems preventable re-admissions.

Page 298 Lines 9-11: Doctors, treat a patient during initial admission that results in a re-admission -Govt will penalize you.

Page 317 L 13-20: PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Govt tells Doctors what/how much they can own!

Page 317-318 lines 21-25, 1-3: PROHIBITION on expansion- Govt is mandating hospitals cannot expand.

Page 321 2-13: Hospitals have opportunity to apply for exception BUT community input is required. Can you say ACORN?!!

Page 335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339: Govt mandates establishment of outcome based measures. HC the way they want. Rationing.

Page 341 Lines 3-9: Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare Advance Plans, HMOs, etc. Forcing people into Govt plan.

Page 354 Sec 1177: Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs people! Unbelievable!

Page 379 Sec 1191: Govt creates more bureaucracy - Tele-health Advisory Comittee. Can you say HC by phone?

Page 425 Lines 4-12: Govt mandates Advance Care Planning Consult. Think Senior Citizens end of life patients.

Page 425 Lines 17-19: Govt will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney. Mandatory!

Page 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3: Govt provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in death. (assisted suicide)

Page 427 Lines 15-24: Govt mandates program for orders for end of life. The Govt has a say in how your life ends.

Page 429 Lines 1-9: An "advanced care planning consultant" will be used frequently as patients health deteriorates.

Page 429 Lines 10-12: "advanced care consultation" may include an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from GOVT!

Page 429 Lines 13-25: The govt will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order.

Page 430 Lines 11-15: The Govt will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life!

Page 469: Community Based Home Medical Services = Non profit organizations. Hello, ACORN Medical Services here!!?

Page 472 Lines 14-17: PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORIGINATION. 1 monthly payment 2 a community-based organization. Like ACORN?

Page 489 Sec 1308: The Govt will cover Marriage & Family therapy. Which means they will insert Govt into your marriage.

Page 494-498: Govt will cover Mental Health Services including defining, creating, rationing those services.


Senator, I guarantee that I personally will do everything possible to inform patients and my fellow physicians about the dangers of the proposed bills you and your colleagues are debating.

Furthermore, If you vote for a bill that enforces socialized medicine on the country and destroys the doctor/patient relationship, I will do everything in my power to make sure you lose your job in the next election.

Respectfully,

Stephen E Fraser MD
 
The New York Times (Obama supporter) reports that the American public is starting to wain on Obama's ideas. No point putting up the link. Let's wait for a more unbiased statement comes out about what the American people are thinking.
 

Jack Houpe

GT40s Supporter
As Al stated page 425 is dooms day for elderly.
I CANNOT BELIEVE THIS! This used to be a civilized nation, what happened?!


<HR id=stopSpelling align=center SIZE=2 width="100%">





This audio report (see link below) is so bizarre that I had to check on the "Truth/Fiction" and "Snopes" websites to make sure it was not a hoax. So far, anyway, it's not mentioned. Prepare to be stunned . . .


Click this link: http://tinyurl.com/mcmq6h

On Page 425 of Obama's health care bill, the Federal Government will require EVERYONE who is on Social Security to undergo a counseling session every 5 years with the objective being that they will explain to them just how to end their own life earlier. Yes...They are going to push SUICIDE to cut medicare spending!!! Also, planned denial of medical care for seniors.








<!-- end of AOLMsgPart_2_c44e9023-0706-4c0c-a1d7-ae3b14dad26f -->
 
Gentlemen,
It's time to vote and get your neighbors to vote. If we sit on the fence on this issue, we deserve what we get. Start talking!
Garry
 

Ron Earp

Admin
As Al stated page 425 is dooms day for elderly.
I CANNOT BELIEVE THIS! This used to be a civilized nation, what happened?!
<!-- end of AOLMsgPart_2_c44e9023-0706-4c0c-a1d7-ae3b14dad26f -->

Health Care Bill Page 425 - The Truth

As far as I can tell it will allow the elderly to become educated on care options, willing wills, and end of life care and this education will be covered by the health plan. I'm not seeing anything in there about a forced consultation or suicide. Makes sense that most folks as they get up there in years would want to know about various care options, how to make wills, and so on.

Like the fellow that wrote the piece, I'm not endorsing the health care plan or condemning it. But "facts" that this that are circulating will damage any intelligent discussion.
 
Back
Top