My Ferrari 365 GTB4
- Thread starter ChrisDaytona
- Start date
I know this is an unusual project, and probably not the kind of car that would appeal to the more ‘race’ inspired builders that frequent these pages. But I would love to hear some comments, feedback and general input into this restoration/build. I’m currently at a stage with this car where I could go a couple of ways for the final execution - build an exact copy of the production Ferrari Daytona car - this being a solution that would make for a very ‘usable’ and rare street car. Or, build a race car replica of the Ferrari 365 GTB/4C Daytona Competizione – creating a pretty unique track day car unlike anything currently available – still streetable but with a different character completely.
Let me know your thoughts…….
Chris
Let me know your thoughts…….
Chris
My .02 Chris, where do you think you'll get more use, fun, enjoyment from all the hard work that will go into the finished product? When you answer that you'll have most of what you need. Personally, I've always loved raced inspired cars so I'd probably go with the track inspired version. Something else to consider....what would your "better half" enjoy more? Assuming they'll be with you some of the time.
Hi Jimmy,
I already have two vintage race cars and another couple of weekend cars, so my options are pretty open regarding this one. I guess it's probably more a decision about which direction would ultimately add value to the car if I ever decided to move it on.......
Chris
I already have two vintage race cars and another couple of weekend cars, so my options are pretty open regarding this one. I guess it's probably more a decision about which direction would ultimately add value to the car if I ever decided to move it on.......
Chris
Last edited:
I bought this car a few years ago - because I absolutely love the purest proportion, knife like surface execution and delicate detailing of the Daytona and it was the last beautiful front-engined Ferrari in my humble opinion. I couldn't afford a 'real' Daytona - even more so now that the coupes are fetching $800,000, and this was as good way to experience that purest form and V12 power without the worry and cost of owning the real deal. However, I'm also passionate about racing (no great driver here, just a bloke that likes the whole racing scene and going somewhat fast occasionally). So the thought of converting this car to 'race' spec is very appealing. But being a realist, I've already spent more money on this car than it's ever going to return to me - and at some point I will sell it for something else that grabs my attention, therefore I want to ensure I make the right decision for the next steps on the restoration/rebuild.
As experts in the build and probably the sale of performance replicas I would like to seek some advice......
Chris
As experts in the build and probably the sale of performance replicas I would like to seek some advice......
Chris
Thought you might like this - an awesome Ferrari Daytona GTB/4C driven at Daytona 24 Hours race in 1977 by three US drivers - Paul Newman, Elliot Forbes-Robinson and Milt Minter……
it’s amazing how the production car can sometimes look so delicate, but the race car looks very butch and aggressive just by the addition of some front end changes and extended wheel arches! - I really like the the look of the 9X15 and 11X15 inch Campagnolo wheels with vintage high wall tyres - very cool.
Chris
it’s amazing how the production car can sometimes look so delicate, but the race car looks very butch and aggressive just by the addition of some front end changes and extended wheel arches! - I really like the the look of the 9X15 and 11X15 inch Campagnolo wheels with vintage high wall tyres - very cool.
Chris
Attachments
Ian Anderson
Lifetime Supporter
Chris
You asked for comments.
It is not the Ferrari I would have replicated but I can admire the work that has gone into it.
The 12 cyl Jag engine must raise a few eyebrows when you let people know what it actually is and yes having 6 carbs to keep in check must be admission
I keep looking each time you post, as I do with most threads on this site
Ian
You asked for comments.
It is not the Ferrari I would have replicated but I can admire the work that has gone into it.
The 12 cyl Jag engine must raise a few eyebrows when you let people know what it actually is and yes having 6 carbs to keep in check must be admission
I keep looking each time you post, as I do with most threads on this site
Ian
Thanks Ian,
Im glad you're finding this post entertaining - and I kinda know what you mean about this car not being the Ferrari of choice for replication - and originally when I was looking to purchase a car I wasn't searching for a Ferrari replica but actually looking for a pre-73’ Porsche 911 but came across this car and fell for it on sight. It’s such a dramatic shape and the engine is so characterful, and as mentioned previously, the noise is intoxicating - it was hard not to buy it!!!
Chris
Im glad you're finding this post entertaining - and I kinda know what you mean about this car not being the Ferrari of choice for replication - and originally when I was looking to purchase a car I wasn't searching for a Ferrari replica but actually looking for a pre-73’ Porsche 911 but came across this car and fell for it on sight. It’s such a dramatic shape and the engine is so characterful, and as mentioned previously, the noise is intoxicating - it was hard not to buy it!!!
Chris
Hello Mesa,
You’re right - the Campagnolo's are great wheels, and look amazing in the gold finish - and i’ve seen many different versions of the wheel arch extension on the Daytona, some looking very odd and badly shaped, some rounded to follow the tyres, others squared off and irregular shaped - I’m sure they were all hand made and no one car is the same. I’m sure i could make some good looking extension if required, see below some images of many different wheel arch extensions executions on these cars......
Interesting you mention resale - It’s not necessarily my goal but it is something i’ve contemplated as I have other car projects at the moment that require my attention. I do love this car and want to finish it and experience that V12 once again, but If someone made me a decent offer then I would seriously have to think about it. I also have a 1965 USRRC race car i’m about to start rebuilding that is another distraction……
Chris
You’re right - the Campagnolo's are great wheels, and look amazing in the gold finish - and i’ve seen many different versions of the wheel arch extension on the Daytona, some looking very odd and badly shaped, some rounded to follow the tyres, others squared off and irregular shaped - I’m sure they were all hand made and no one car is the same. I’m sure i could make some good looking extension if required, see below some images of many different wheel arch extensions executions on these cars......
Interesting you mention resale - It’s not necessarily my goal but it is something i’ve contemplated as I have other car projects at the moment that require my attention. I do love this car and want to finish it and experience that V12 once again, but If someone made me a decent offer then I would seriously have to think about it. I also have a 1965 USRRC race car i’m about to start rebuilding that is another distraction……
Chris
Attachments
In 2008 a British kit car magazine did an article on Ferrari replicas and my car was mentioned. Here are a few pages from that article - not all of the article but the bits that mention my car - hope you find it interesting.
This was prior to the work undertaken in the above thread......
Chris
This was prior to the work undertaken in the above thread......
Chris
Attachments
More detail -
I did look into swapping out the Jaguar V12 for a real Ferrari V12 and a couple of options were available - the cheapest being a Ferrari 400 V12, the most expensive I contemplated a Ferrari 456 or 550 V12. But this would have been a big undertaking, the fabrication to convert the chassis to accommodate these engines, gearbox and final drive systems would have been a huge hit on my wallet, as well as the initial cost of said Ferrari engine and box!! Also, just to setup and maintain these Ferrari engines is far more complex than the Jaguar V12 so I decided it was money not well spent. I therefore decided to try and make the Jaguar engine a little closer in appearance to the original Ferrari Daytona V12 motor.
The Weber carb setup on my engine looks pretty similar to the Ferrari so the next area that really stands out as ‘Jaguar’ was the cam covers - the Ferrari cam covers being very iconic. So I decided to recreate a cover that would look like the Ferrari cam tops and although the Jaguar is a single cam per side and the Ferrari is a twin cam, the change would be quite convincing. I did contemplate making complete new cam covers, but decided the fit and sealing of the original Jaguar covers might be difficult to recreate. Therefore I decided to create replica alloy cam covers to weld onto the original Jaguar aluminium covers.
Chris
I did look into swapping out the Jaguar V12 for a real Ferrari V12 and a couple of options were available - the cheapest being a Ferrari 400 V12, the most expensive I contemplated a Ferrari 456 or 550 V12. But this would have been a big undertaking, the fabrication to convert the chassis to accommodate these engines, gearbox and final drive systems would have been a huge hit on my wallet, as well as the initial cost of said Ferrari engine and box!! Also, just to setup and maintain these Ferrari engines is far more complex than the Jaguar V12 so I decided it was money not well spent. I therefore decided to try and make the Jaguar engine a little closer in appearance to the original Ferrari Daytona V12 motor.
The Weber carb setup on my engine looks pretty similar to the Ferrari so the next area that really stands out as ‘Jaguar’ was the cam covers - the Ferrari cam covers being very iconic. So I decided to recreate a cover that would look like the Ferrari cam tops and although the Jaguar is a single cam per side and the Ferrari is a twin cam, the change would be quite convincing. I did contemplate making complete new cam covers, but decided the fit and sealing of the original Jaguar covers might be difficult to recreate. Therefore I decided to create replica alloy cam covers to weld onto the original Jaguar aluminium covers.
Chris
Some images of the original Ferrari Daytona engine - originally the cam tops were painted all black on Daytona production cars, but many owners had the two horizontal strips and the Ferrari script highlighted in silver - it looks much better with the highlighted script. As you can see from these images, the second cam top isn’t always easy to see when looking into the engine bay, so the single cam of the Jaguar is quite convincing at first glance.
Also of note - the race cars always had red cam covers - I believe this is where the nick name ‘red head’ came from when describing Ferrari race car engines.
Chris
Also of note - the race cars always had red cam covers - I believe this is where the nick name ‘red head’ came from when describing Ferrari race car engines.
Chris
Attachments
I scanned the original Jaguar covers and created a CAD model of the Ferrari cam tops to fit perfectly on top of the Jaguar parts. I measured the original Ferrari Daytona cam covers to get as close as possible to these parts. The final CAD data I created was then sent out and cast aluminium parts returned to me, these looking amazing in the raw metal. They slide over the top of the Jaguar cam covers and just need tig welding into location, powder coating to complete the look (another job I need to finish!) Not quite the Ferrari engine I had hoped to actually install in the car - but the Jaguar V12 is a much more affordable and useable motor for regular driving, and probably pretty close to the power of the Ferrari V12…..
Chris
Chris
Attachments
I'm not sure how many of you forum members live in the Detroit area - but every Saturday morning 8:00am - 10:00am there is a Cars & Coffee event at Pasteiner's car book store in Birmingham MI. I'll be there with my 65' Mustang 2+2 fastback - it'll be the black one with red interior. Hope to see you there.....
www.autozonehobbies.com
Regards,
Chris
www.autozonehobbies.com
Regards,
Chris
Chriss I've been following your thread but haven't commented. Your question on oppinions on direction to go is interesting. I think that there is just something in the spirit that is grabbed my "Race Cars". Something that stirs the imagination more than a "Street" version. Take a Corvette even a really really nice one (older version maybe) but it's still JUST a Corvette "oh nice Corvette" & on to other things. Now you put a roll bar in it & big wheels & tires. With a race inspired paint scheme & you've got a "head turner". Something that grabs your attention & imagination. Oh WOW COOL!!!!!!!!!!!!! But it's all up to you. Do you want a nice street cruiser that probably won't get all that much attention. Or an attention getter (in my opinion more fun LOL). I live in So. Cal. & see Ferrarris & Maseratis & Corvettes etc on a regular basis. The design of your model is a bit more "mundane" (IMHO) than many others so a little "dressing up" might be in order?
Some pictures from Jalopnik of the Pasteiner's parking lot yesterday.......
Parking at Pasteiners - 05/10/2014 (photodump + video)
Chris
Parking at Pasteiners - 05/10/2014 (photodump + video)
Chris
Thanks Mike,
I think I'm also coming to a similar conclusion, a Race version also setup for street use would be pretty dramatic and as there's a few race tracks close to me I could do some track days quite easily. As mentioned previously, I have a couple of weekend runabouts and a dedicated race car - but this could be something inbetween which would probably see quite a bit of use if that's the case.
Only problem at the moment is the car is in the UK and I'm in the US - and the dedicated race car is a box of bits that will require a lot of my attention - so finding time to move the Daytona to the US and work on it is difficult at the moment.
Here's some pictures of my other distraction......
Regards,
Chris
I think I'm also coming to a similar conclusion, a Race version also setup for street use would be pretty dramatic and as there's a few race tracks close to me I could do some track days quite easily. As mentioned previously, I have a couple of weekend runabouts and a dedicated race car - but this could be something inbetween which would probably see quite a bit of use if that's the case.
Only problem at the moment is the car is in the UK and I'm in the US - and the dedicated race car is a box of bits that will require a lot of my attention - so finding time to move the Daytona to the US and work on it is difficult at the moment.
Here's some pictures of my other distraction......
Regards,
Chris
