New Daytona Coupe replica in the UK
- Thread starter RobBeddington
- Start date
I've just heard from Bill Hough, who gives some interesting background to the evolution of the Daytona replica(s) discussed above, especially the FFR, as follows:
"Here is the straight story. I was the person that did all the tooling for Factory Five (FFR) on their Daytona Coupe. They bought a Daytona Coupe body from R&D Engineering, a small company out in Nebraska, US, and started modifying it to fit their roadster chassis and made such a mess of it, they gave up.
"I took up the project at my own expense and got it to a point that the owners liked what I did so far, that they decided to go ahead and offer it as a kit. I ended up funding the whole project to the end. All I had to work with was a Roadster frame and a XJS Jag windshield. The windshield dictated the shape of the car from the "A" pillar back. The wheels, tires, and chassis width had a major effect on the shape. I was given full liberty on how I made the body look given what I had to work with. I sloped the nose down more for more downforce and dropped the tail down more for better visibility at the back. I didn't want the car to look like a Cobra Coupe with big fender flares. It was a challenge to get it to look like a Daytona Coupe and not look like a Chevy Camaro.
"Shell Valley Inc. just bought out the R&D Daytona Coupe tooling to make their kit. The one on the Forum (the British American Daytona in the first post) looks to be an R&D body also. You can tell the R&D body by the very flat looking front. The story goes that R&D scaled up the body off a model car. How accurate can that be? The R&D body that FFR had to start with was way off on all dimensions.
"Upstate's Daytona is a dead on replica. Someone cast moulds off an original (CSX2299? - Rob) while in a shop for restoration without the owner's permission. It's a long story, but in the end Bill Connelly ended up with the body moulds, and does a superb job of making a Daytona in kit form and turn-key form.
"When I finished the Coupe for FFR and it made its début at the Carlisle Kit Car Show in Penn., it was parked right next to Superformance Daytona Coupe. Many people stood there looking at both and came over and said they liked the FFR Daytona Coupe better. That made me feel good - but when Bob Bondurant and John Morton gave their approval of the car, that was all I needed! After all, the car was my interpretation of a Cobra Daytona Coupe.
"Part of the deal was that I got my own Coupe; Chassis #002 Kit #1"
"That's my story and I'm sticking to it!"
"Blue skies - Bill Hough"
"Here is the straight story. I was the person that did all the tooling for Factory Five (FFR) on their Daytona Coupe. They bought a Daytona Coupe body from R&D Engineering, a small company out in Nebraska, US, and started modifying it to fit their roadster chassis and made such a mess of it, they gave up.
"I took up the project at my own expense and got it to a point that the owners liked what I did so far, that they decided to go ahead and offer it as a kit. I ended up funding the whole project to the end. All I had to work with was a Roadster frame and a XJS Jag windshield. The windshield dictated the shape of the car from the "A" pillar back. The wheels, tires, and chassis width had a major effect on the shape. I was given full liberty on how I made the body look given what I had to work with. I sloped the nose down more for more downforce and dropped the tail down more for better visibility at the back. I didn't want the car to look like a Cobra Coupe with big fender flares. It was a challenge to get it to look like a Daytona Coupe and not look like a Chevy Camaro.
"Shell Valley Inc. just bought out the R&D Daytona Coupe tooling to make their kit. The one on the Forum (the British American Daytona in the first post) looks to be an R&D body also. You can tell the R&D body by the very flat looking front. The story goes that R&D scaled up the body off a model car. How accurate can that be? The R&D body that FFR had to start with was way off on all dimensions.
"Upstate's Daytona is a dead on replica. Someone cast moulds off an original (CSX2299? - Rob) while in a shop for restoration without the owner's permission. It's a long story, but in the end Bill Connelly ended up with the body moulds, and does a superb job of making a Daytona in kit form and turn-key form.
"When I finished the Coupe for FFR and it made its début at the Carlisle Kit Car Show in Penn., it was parked right next to Superformance Daytona Coupe. Many people stood there looking at both and came over and said they liked the FFR Daytona Coupe better. That made me feel good - but when Bob Bondurant and John Morton gave their approval of the car, that was all I needed! After all, the car was my interpretation of a Cobra Daytona Coupe.
"Part of the deal was that I got my own Coupe; Chassis #002 Kit #1"
"That's my story and I'm sticking to it!"
"Blue skies - Bill Hough"
Article in local car mag here in OZ said that the local importer of Superformance cobras is hoping to sell the Daytona coupe with a local 5.4 Ford Tickford V8 and a Tremec 6 speed box for $150000 OZ dollars which is about 62000 poons in UK currency. No Roush but a good price if it can be achieved, Regards
I agree with Bill. The FFR coupe is more pleasing to the eye. As far as I can tell the Upstate Replica is one outstanding reproduction. The workmanship is superb.
But I still had one he!! of a time trying to get into the darn thing. It's harder to get in and out of than my GT40. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Hersh /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
But I still had one he!! of a time trying to get into the darn thing. It's harder to get in and out of than my GT40. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Hersh /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I read the Motorsport article last night. Clearly one stonking car which will give owners a lot of fun. But my thoughts tended towards it is a new Ford GT to Ford GT40 situation (maybe not quite as far removed as that) as opposed to a modern recreation. My bias is towards historic race cars so I would rather a less modern, closer copy than the Superformance car. Horses for courses I guess. I like the image of the Upstate car posted abvove. As someone with an untrained eye in Daytona Coupes et al, I wouldn't know what was the correct shape or not. Period looking interiors and wheels would form an important starting point for my search should I be in the market to buy one of these replicas. Some have got it and some haven't. Like the vast majority of GT40 replicas will give you a great driving experience I guess all the cars mentioned above will give you a similar thrill. And that is what it is all about for me. Don't talk and polish, drive!
Rob
I have a question for Peter Brock relating to this thread. When he designed the original Daytona coupe he was going to incorporate a ring spoiler at the back. Did he ever think of incorporating one in the Superperformance?
Regards Allan
I have a question for Peter Brock relating to this thread. When he designed the original Daytona coupe he was going to incorporate a ring spoiler at the back. Did he ever think of incorporating one in the Superperformance?
Regards Allan
Hi Allan
The way I understand it there was no thought of the ring spoiler on the SPF, because it was not in keeping with the original Daytona shape (even though the SPF is not a replica...). However Peter did produce the first ever ring spoiler cars, the DeTomaso 70P-1 of 1966, and the Hino Samurai Prototype of 1967. The top centre section of the Hino spoiler was hinged to vary the downforce. Both cars appear as part of a website that I put together a little while back on Peter's creations.
Pete Brock's DeTomaso 70P-1 page
Pete Brock's Hino Samurai Prototype (scroll down the page)
I've thought for a while now that the Hino Samurai Prototype would make a marvellous replica! I have stacks of drawings for this car, but the market would be limited (see Peter with the Samurai below)
Cheers.
Rob
The way I understand it there was no thought of the ring spoiler on the SPF, because it was not in keeping with the original Daytona shape (even though the SPF is not a replica...). However Peter did produce the first ever ring spoiler cars, the DeTomaso 70P-1 of 1966, and the Hino Samurai Prototype of 1967. The top centre section of the Hino spoiler was hinged to vary the downforce. Both cars appear as part of a website that I put together a little while back on Peter's creations.
Pete Brock's DeTomaso 70P-1 page
Pete Brock's Hino Samurai Prototype (scroll down the page)
I've thought for a while now that the Hino Samurai Prototype would make a marvellous replica! I have stacks of drawings for this car, but the market would be limited (see Peter with the Samurai below)
Cheers.
Rob
HI Rob
Although the ring spoiler did not appear on the Daytona coupe; it was in Peter Brocks original sketches forthe coupe! It could have been incorporated since the superperformance is not an exact copy! The detomaso was never called the King Cobra except by the slot car company Tamiya.
Regards Allan
Although the ring spoiler did not appear on the Daytona coupe; it was in Peter Brocks original sketches forthe coupe! It could have been incorporated since the superperformance is not an exact copy! The detomaso was never called the King Cobra except by the slot car company Tamiya.
Regards Allan
Hi Allan.
As Peter Brock readily concedes now: "From what I know now the 'ring spoiler' wouldn’t have worked as well as I thought." And SPF are having a difficult enough job selling Coupes (in the UK at least) without installing something that would distance their Coupe from the car most people associate it with (and which was actually built), whether it's a replica or not...
Not sure what you mean by the King Cobra reference to the DeTomaso. I've never called it that. (Although I could bore you with an old article I wrote on Shelby and Brock's involvement on this car). Even Peter Brock (who is not Shelby's biggest fan) says it should be known as the Shelby DeTomaso.
Cheers
Rob
As Peter Brock readily concedes now: "From what I know now the 'ring spoiler' wouldn’t have worked as well as I thought." And SPF are having a difficult enough job selling Coupes (in the UK at least) without installing something that would distance their Coupe from the car most people associate it with (and which was actually built), whether it's a replica or not...
Not sure what you mean by the King Cobra reference to the DeTomaso. I've never called it that. (Although I could bore you with an old article I wrote on Shelby and Brock's involvement on this car). Even Peter Brock (who is not Shelby's biggest fan) says it should be known as the Shelby DeTomaso.
Cheers
Rob
Rob,
Slightly off the thread the DeTomaso sportscar was called as you say the Shelby DeTomaso. Yet the only model of it I have seen and have. Is the 1/24 Tamiya slotcar that calls it the King Cobra!
Regards Allan
Slightly off the thread the DeTomaso sportscar was called as you say the Shelby DeTomaso. Yet the only model of it I have seen and have. Is the 1/24 Tamiya slotcar that calls it the King Cobra!
Regards Allan
I think the Superperformance looks stunning, but to me it seems more of a car in its own right, when compared to the 2 pics either side of it the the green and red cars not only look different but have different objectives.
The supeperfomance reminds me of an Aston or TVR, it looks so well finished, I can imagine it having Sat Nav and a CD Multi changer option!(Assuming Aircon is standard)
I am not saying thats bad but why bother with the association to the original? (££££!)
I think there is plenty of scope for other manufactures, I can also imagine various body types based on the originals, just look at the arch detail on the green one and the differences in the doors where they kick up at the top rear.
I think there is always room for competition,
The supeperfomance reminds me of an Aston or TVR, it looks so well finished, I can imagine it having Sat Nav and a CD Multi changer option!(Assuming Aircon is standard)
I am not saying thats bad but why bother with the association to the original? (££££!)
I think there is plenty of scope for other manufactures, I can also imagine various body types based on the originals, just look at the arch detail on the green one and the differences in the doors where they kick up at the top rear.
I think there is always room for competition,
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