P2123 in the wet

[Grady]

Daryl,
I had the same thoughts about the quality when I ask. Lynn has several good comments with pictures that offer a good place to start. Steve C. (P2125) has spent hours taking his car apart and fixing/improving what he started with. I agree after reading Lynns reply from the factory is a dodge.. many of these problems could be fixed at the factory before they are buried inside the chassis. For some reason they chose to not be that concerned. That being said, I got the car and I've got some more work to do starting with the door seals. The roof vent is where most of my shower came from and that was fixed to my expectations.

Fortunately, I operate a small rubber manufacturing plant and have access to materials and existing extrusion profiles. I still like the ideal of a self inflating door seal, but think it too expensive. One thing I found was that the current seal was not glued to the car and would move around. Check yours. Use alcohol to clean off the wax. I've got some foam striping to affix to the doors where they meet up with seal I'm going to play with next. The front lower corner is the trick to fix. I think it needs something to divert water before it gets too far along the door sill. Some of the windshield molding puckers in the corner turns and could become an issue in a driving rain. In my spare time (around 3am) I worry about the state of our government and when we will get hit.

Maybe we can get Steve and Lynn to tell us and sort out the big leaks. I was thinking today about using a spray urethane coating (bed liner spray) on the front cabin exterior to seal and protect the metal. Anyway I'm tackling the small rust spots with Eastwood products and urethane caulk. Also some dry spray film products might be good to control water spray. I think we all will find some common areas to attack first, then secondary leaks unique to each car.

The foam stripping used around around the windows and headlight lens covers will not stop water. I'm currently using a clear silicon grease that is used around pools applied to the foam to see if it will stop the lens infiltration. I know I can fix it with a different type foam using PSA (pressure sensitive adhesive) film on both sides, BUT you'll play hell taking it off easily. It would be nice to remove the side windows during track days.

I wish this would have been corrected before they released the product. Maybe we should move this onto the SPF site.
I know they (factory) reads the comments there. Also I know some dealers read it here and give the the factory feedback, and also complain when 'the surf is up' in their own cars. I can fix mine, but shouldn't have to. A new Z06 at less cost won't leak, nor will either of my two SHELBYs. What are your thoughts?
Grady

 

[Lynn Miner]

Grady

Your idea of spray on bed liner is a technique Rich Woerz and I have used along with buying an undercoating kit from Eastwood. We shot the "goober" into the fuel tank sponsons and in all the monocoque cavities. I used spray expanding insulation foam and RTV in some of the places at the front of the cockpit to plug holes. I rerouted the input to the fresh air vent down along the frame so it picks up fresh air behind the wheel instead injecting it into the cabin from the front clip scoops. We made drains to route water from the corners of the windshield down and out so it bypasses the cabin. The biggest source of water is the doors I believe and that's the toughest fix without a custom seal making capability. I have seen several of these SPF cars now and I'm not certain there is a "one size fits all" seal that will fix the problem. There may be but I know some guys who's car don't leak at all round the doors and others (like mine) leak so badly you simply can't drive in the rain .... so I don't! I've been working on a "How To" with lots of photos showing how Rich and I mod'd our cars to "reduce" the water but like every thing else it takes time to put all the documentation and such together. I'd rather be out driving. I again implore everyone who has gotten soaked to lift the carpet in the cabin of there cars looking for rust. It can really be bad if you don't deal with it. Eastwood makes a restoration kit that works great to repair and abate the rust. I have a "How To" in the works on that also but the same comment as above applies.

 

[Rick Muck- Mark IV]

Actually SPF does more to weatherseal the cars than FAV/JWA or Safir ever did. The plugs in the tub by the front door jambs for example, never done on an any other 40s.

That said, yes things could be better. However in deference to the original design, to greatly improve the door weathersealing would require a design changes of shut faces to allow a different weatherstrip profile to be used, this would require the tub roof/door surfaces to be redesigned and become markedly different than we have/expect.

To really weatherseal the car does require time and temperment. I agree any rectifiable issues should be addressed by the factory and I will push for such improvements, but don't expect a major design revision as this makes it no longer a "GT40" and also would impact the FIA historic homologation papers that allow the cars to compete in some vintage events (even now after Dennis Olthoff's performance at Road America some are complaining about the Wilwood brakes on the car demanding period Girlings)

 

[chuck smith]

I went through all the above when I had my MK11. The lower front of the door has a gap that simply cannot be sealed with weather stripping. Much of my water came from the corners of the front clamshell, running from the base of the windshield down the front of the door gaps. I think the upper part of the doors could be helped by using a CAV type door seal instead of the eyebrows. If you try and use the eyebrows to pull the door down as it closes you will simply ruin the paint and then chip the edge of the door or break the brow. The CAV system pulls the top of the door down tight as it is shutting, thus making a better seal. the roof vent is of course a silly design and can be improved. As I have said in another thread, the frame will rust, even though it is apparently galvanized. I have found POR-15 to be the best rust inhibitor paint. SPF was in a tough position when they designed these cars, my SPF Daytona was completely dry in any weather.

 

[Mike Christian]

Some of the windshield molding puckers in the corner turns and could become an issue in a driving rain.

You have an early car, like mine. It appears that the later cars have a different windshield seal with no pucker.

Mike

 

[Richard]

Water intrusion, well before I bought my SPF GT40 and meet Lynn Miner I may have thought it had something to do with a leaky diaper. However the last year and a half has taught me it has everything to do with my car.

First I don’t think the “factory” will do anything to fix the cars they have already made so it will be up to us to figure it out, and we will. They may help by making available redesigned weather stripping but I’m not holding my breath. IMHO

For reasons to many to list ($$$....) I’ve had lots of time to “work” on my car but what stuck in my mind is a story Lynn Miner told me on the way to pick up my car in Seattle about a trip he took to Portland with his new car on an open trailer in the rain. I think it went something like this. Oh my God there was water, water, and more water on the inside of the car. This started me on a year and a half quest to understand were water could enter the car. I couldn’t have done any of this without Lynn’s help so I blame him for all of it. The good news is the doctors say my OCD is finally under control, sort of. lol
Joking aside it’s my hope that with everyone’s help we can get this figured out. I know I can’t make weather stripping but I can tell you at least some of the places you have to plug and or drain that will help.

Rather than post a couple hundred pictures at once and boar you more than I already have I’ll start by posting details of the latest roof vent design in the “How To” section assuming I can still do that. Needless to say there is much more and I hope others will post their finding and fixes as well.

I think we all agree that the door seal or the lack there of is perhaps the largest single issue and recall hearing that Frank Cat had new and improved ones but that needs to be fixed by someone other than me. What I can help with is the problems I found with the front suspension mounts, almost every seam in the car, drainage of the cowl area under the window (drips onto the feet and ankles, sound familiar), control of the water coming off the roof and currently onto the top of the rear sponsons. So at this point since everyone is asleep or stopped reading a long time ago I’ll leave the rest for later.

I'll leave you with a few pictures of my new and improved roof vent. Don't ask me I only made the thing that other guy in my head designed it. ABS is great material to work with.

 

[Jack Houpe]

Richard I closed off the vents by using that dynamat and that little tub area holds one of the on board cameras in the car and also the mic. I also brought power up between the metal roof skins so its all pretty self contained and stealth. Good place for a interior light too.

 

[Richard]

Jack, figures you would be the first to answer. Ya the holes on the front and sides are for camera wiring and one for the drain tube. Did you close off the louvers on the top? How about some pictures, I'll show you mine if...... well let's not go there.

 

[chuck smith]

this is the door piece of which I was speaking. It pulls the door down snugly against the weatherstripping. It does not negate the use of the eyebrows so you can still look original, but I think it would solve a lot of the door perimeter leaking issues.

 

[chuck smith]

 

[chuck smith]

 

[Richard]

Grady, what roof vent fix did you do? Any pictures?

Jack great idea on the inside light, oh I know I'll use those map lights I took out of my 67 Mustangs overhead console, or maybe not. Anyway you must own a camera I'd like to see how you did your roof vent.

I should be out working on the car but it's 95+degs, seems a little to hot to be doing that.

 

[Mike Drew]

this is the door piece of which I was speaking. It pulls the door down snugly against the weatherstripping. It does not negate the use of the eyebrows so you can still look original, but I think it would solve a lot of the door perimeter leaking issues.

Twice now, I have closed the door in a CAV and took that thing right upside the head. :knife:

I'd much rather have water pouring into the car than my own blood. :stunned:

One thing I noticed about the SPF plastic door eyebrows is that they are VERY noisy--the wind noise is deafening at higher speed, which I attribute to those plastic bits sticking up into the breeze. The original-style metal ones (which Kim Peterson offers on his GT40R, and which are probably available as stand-alone replacement pieces) are much lower in profile, and might perhaps be quieter?

 

[Pat Buckley]

Mike-

After I did it once I learned not do do that again.

 

[Jack Houpe]

Mike is correct about the noise, the door eyebrows do make a lot of noise. Richard here are the pictures, the wires are not tucked away, got it installed the night before RA and parked it when I got home. Camera #2 is the second picture Also here is an idea I used, its a manual fuel pressure gauge you can see from the rear view mirror. Backwards of course but still you can see if you got pressure or not. The electronic gear hanging down is a dual channel DVR. I don't recommend it, seems the frame rate is so slow for good video. Oh no drain tube the vents are sealed off with the dynomate, its the stickyest crap I ever used.

 

[chuck smith]

Pat is correct, a quick duck of the head takes no time, but being wet last a while

 

[Mike Drew]

Mike-

After I did it once I learned not do do that again.

Well, I'm a slow learner! :laugh4:

 

[Jim Craik]

One thing I have noticed is the cockpit of my car warms up considerably when the car is throttled. At first I thought its was engine heat but finally determined it was the gaps in the body and doors

Jimmy Patton

I cant speak to the water leaking issue. I have been able to avoid rain, In CA we just dont get suprise summer showers.

I also noticed a very noticeable warm up under acceleration, I thought from excess heat under the front clip leaking through to the foot well area.

I discovered that by closing the window flaps the heat transfer goes away. It appears that the wave of heat was being pulled in by air being sucked out the open window vents.

I now leave the window vents slosed and even on very hot days the cabin stays remarkably cool.

 

[Jimmy P]

Jim,
Ummmm, food for thought. I'll give it a try and see what happens. Thanks for the tip. Your lucky with the rain. You can set your clocks with the summer rain storms in Florida. None are usually light. Most are quick huge down pours that last about an hour and then just add to the horrendously high humidity. Hate it!!

 

[Mike Christian]

Jimmy Patton

I also noticed a very noticeable warm up under acceleration, I thought from excess heat under the front clip leaking through to the foot well area.

I discovered that by closing the window flaps the heat transfer goes away. It appears that the wave of heat was being pulled in by air being sucked out the open window vents.

I now leave the window vents slosed and even on very hot days the cabin stays remarkably cool.

Sorry for the thread drift, but this part of the topic has me interested. I was working int eh front compartment and noticed the fresh air inlet is located on the driver's side. It seems that pulling warm air form the front compartment is not a great idea. My fresh air NACA ducts are not connected. I think Steve C 2125 has his connected. This has to have some affect on warm air getting into the cabin I would imagine. Here is a thread that relates:

http://www.gt40s.com/forum/superformance-gt40s/28698-air-ventilation-opening.html

If you look at Steve Cs mods you will see the NACA ducting.

Mike