Wow, this conversation really got cranked up while I was away. Great stuff all. Now, if I may summarize.
1. You can't go "real" vintage racing with anything south of $400K
2. The "R" spec cars from CAV and SPF will allow you to run in some "historic" races, but not much to run against. By the time you make them legal for NASA and SCCA, they will no longer be accepted by the historics.
3. Building a car from the various kits and bringing it up to speed for NASA or SCCA will cost $125K to $150K. Lot's of development and still no guarantee of success.
4. The Active Power GTR is purpose built for NASA Super Touring, and is ALREADY approved by NASA for such. With a unmolested LS6 it can compete in ST1, where the competition is plentiful and fierce. Swap in an LS7 or variant (sky's the limit) and move up to Super Unlimited. Everything about it is proper for this type of racing out of the box, and it costs less than $100K. Although it is not listed in the GT category for SCCA, on the regional level it will be thrown into SPO, where it should be quite competitive.
If the rank and file will forgive me, I've never been one to shy away from a good thread derailment (it is one of my few vices)...I am refering to where you summarize the whole thread into these statements. On what experience and knowledge do you base your ability to summarize the thread into these statements? What do you race ?
Yet I still have no idea what your asking.
Implying that I need a resume to have an opinion?He's asking what specific car you race now, with what sanctioning body do you race, and what is your experience on track, i.e., how long have you been a racer? The same question I asked of the person that started the thread, Mr. Ash.
Implying that I need a resume to have an opinion?
.
Hey, at least Ron now knows that he could enter the Mitty if he wanted to. . .
Without spending $400,000.
Without making his car illegal for other organizations.
Without spending $125,000.
I can't tell you what my girlfriend looks like, on the possibility that my wife should read this and be able to pick her out in a crowd. She'd make a scene, I just know it.No resume required. Tom, I withdraw the question. I no longer want to know what you race and forbid you to tell me, but what does your girlfriend look like ?
I'm just sayin'... the summary was innaccurate, and it flys in the face of MY agenda, which is to promote racing and get some more cool cars out on the track.
Hey, at least Ron now knows that he could enter the Mitty if he wanted to. . .
Without spending $400,000.
Without making his car illegal for other organizations.
Without spending $125,000.
If it (the car) is not listed within the GT Specifications - it will almost 100% assuredly not be accepted into the ranks of Super Production.
I'm not sure why you feel the FIA homologation is the necessary caveat, the statement preceeding that (above) says it all.
From the SCCA Rule book;
2. In addition, organizers may include either or both of the following Optional Regional Classes in their events defined in 3.1.5, 3.1.6 and 3.1.7.
a. Super Production Class (SP) (Optional Regional Class): Cars which exceed the preparation limitations of the appli- cable Production or GT Category Rules but which meet the General Technical Specifications of Section 9 of the GCR for GT category cars. This includes cars not listed in the GT or Production specification pages, such as FIA homologated production cars.
Remember when I said this?
The SCCA has very specific rules and guidelines.. Their coverage for any potential "gray area" is the mantra:
If we don't specifically tell you that you can do something - you cannot do it..
Now - look at the part above where I changed the color of the words "not listed" to gray and apply the Gray Area mantra right above..
Which is why I said
The note about FIA Homologation just may do the trick for the GT40 and others like it.
So you see - when the SCCA said
such as FIA homologated production cars.
They gave a list of examples by basically stating - if it was FIA homologated, it would be acceptable.
Thank you for doing some homework and finding that tidbit. In the interest of avoiding confusion and misinformation, perhaps next time a bit of research in advance would be advisable.
I've spent the last 35 years reading and understanding the GCR and those rules that are relevant to the classes I am either competing in or building cars to compete in. I possibly should have seen that change to the Super Production rules when it came out - but quite honestly, I've not needed to visit this section of the rules lately.
As for making the cage safe, it simply required a redesign of the spider to incorporate the top of the door as part of the roof (check). As easy to climb out of as my Corvette and easier still when upside down. Race these cars without the proper cage and the odds of being alive to crawl out of that window in the scenario you describe is what becomes the issue.
Have you ever crashed a racecar and ended up upside down? I have.. Un-buckling and escaping that car was one of the most butt-puckering experiences I've ever had. And - it was a Corvette.
Have you ever sat in a GT40? Somehow I don't think so.. Without the part of the roof that's attached to the door, you leave yourself precious little room to get in and out of the car ((without)) a Roll cage. Now put some side intrusion above the sills (which are your fuel tanks by the way).. Now you need to crawl over the sill, and basically through the side window which is scarcely 12" tall..
So why am I making this point? Because in order to have an SCCA Compliant roll cage, you would have to have a connection point between the outside top of the main hoop and the outside top of the front hoop at the top of the windshield. That effectively eliminates the top part of the car (which normally swivels away with the door) as part of your escape route.
I apologize for my ill advised reference to "buddies". As a point of explanation, I was reminded of certain local building inspectors who, in the absence of supporting documentation, will misquote, misinterpret, or just plain make shite up on their own.
Apology accepted.
Now - I ask you if you have ever built a racecar and taken it hundreds of miles away to get it inspected and log-booked for competition?
I have. Many times. I've never been turned away - although a couple of times it was close. I've seen many sent back home. Nobody gives you the money it cost you to tow all that distance. Some regions do not have a 100% refund policy if you don't make the race (you typically pay in advance or pay a late registration fee at the gate)..
Would it piss you off if you went through weeks or months of work, made all the arrangements, paid to tow 16 hours to the track - only to be turned away?
Off course it would.
But it wouldn't piss you off half as bad as if you were to crash an unworthy car and be trapped in it and injured badly - or worse....
So what GT40 is the best one for racing - that was the question.
I will state that, in my opinion, while the GT40 has a rich racing heritage, that as far as serious 10-10th's W2W racing is concerned - the GT40 needs to remain part of history..
Perhaps, but it doesn't mean 0%. "This includes cars NOT listed"...Note "Almost" gives some measure of latitude to the certainty of 100%...
I'm confused. Stated simply, were you right or wrong in your previous assertion?I've spent the last 35 years reading and understanding the GCR and those rules that are relevant to the classes I am either competing in or building cars to compete in. I possibly should have seen that change to the Super Production rules when it came out - but quite honestly, I've not needed to visit this section of the rules lately.
Are you just looking for opportunities to be wrong? Really bad assumption.Have you ever sat in a GT40? Somehow I don't think so..
You made the scenario that the door would not open, so this point is moot.That effectively eliminates the top part of the car (which normally swivels away with the door) as part of your escape route.
No, I built it, and was smart (or lucky) enough to take it exactly 18 miles for certification and it's first race weekend. It passed without so much as a single discrepancy. Although I had to break out the GCR on several occasions to disprove what the highly experienced scrutineer thought to be fact.Now - I ask you if you have ever built a racecar and taken it hundreds of miles away to get it inspected and log-booked for competition?
I would never have guessed this was the way you felt.I will state that, in my opinion, while the GT40 has a rich racing heritage, that as far as serious 10-10th's W2W racing is concerned - the GT40 needs to remain part of history..
HA HA Johan, nice try.What kind of car did you build for racing Tom ? Hey, this is my 1000th post !
Two minor points:
- SPf GT40R and Pathfinder GT40R are the same thing.
- Most of the changes from SPF GT40 to GT40R are described on the SPF web site as well as earlier threads on this forum.
Mr. Ash, I suggest you start a new thread on that topic. This topic has useful information for those seeking to run a GT40 in a modern race series and adding lap times into the mix is going to dilute it quite a bit.
There are no original GT40s currently vintage racing in the US other then the Monterey event that I know of.
What kind of car did you build for racing Tom ? Hey, this is my 1000th post !
HA HA Johan, nice try.
Hi Alan, 2 minor points from me as well :heart: lol :shy: If you contact Superformance and say you want the GT40R, they build it themselves based on Dennis Olthoff's Specs/Setup and will favor Roush power plants.
If you contact Pathfinder.....Pathfinder gets the car from Superformance and basically does there own setup (they take the place of Olthoff Racing) and than they run the Holman Moody Power Plant.
So yes, essentially, it is the same Car, but some different "Tweaks" I guess you could say get placed in later.
I may have gotten an adjective or two wrong in there, but that is essentially what I was told. When I spoke with Superformance in Irvine a couple weeks ago, they gave me a Spec List from Olthoff Racing, Inc. When I asked about what Pathfinders relationship with the GT40R was, they said that Pathfinder uses our car, but their own setup (more or less).