RBT where are you?

Ross Nicol

GT40s Supporter
Sounds like I was lucky to get mine last christmas there was only a 1 month wait for me. Ditto from me on the quality of the box Ian. It's a quality product
and I suppose a reflection on it's German roots. Lloyd can be difficult to contact
sometimes but if you persist you will be rewarded. I don't get upset when my calls or emails are not replied to, as I understand what it's like to run a business and have to deal with extremely busy periods. I even got a friend to
call in to see Lloyd when I had trouble contacting him and I found this to be an extremely effective procedure.

Ross
 
Loid will not turn out a bad box. And will not hire unqualified help to meet a spike in demand. He could spend all day on the phone or he could build box,s for people with money down. If you wont it you have to wait. From His point of view ,which do you sacrifice snoozing on the phone or building what you have sold. He will continua to tack orders because he has to, that is what he is in it for.
 

Steve Briscoe

Lifetime Supporter
Has anyone installed an alternative to the RBT ZF in their 40 yet that will handle healthy horsepower and torque? 500\500 type numbers? There's a lot of discussion on the forum about different transaxles and various options but I haven't found an installation that has withstood the test of track time. Maybe I'm just not seeing the thread. I understand the guys at RBT have a great product but in this environment of competition, someone will or has introduced a comparable product. ZFs are great but the number of rebuilds, or needed rebuilds, is noteworthy. The Pantera sites are full of this kind of information.

Dennis Quella (good guy!) at Pantera Performance rebuilt the ZF in my Pantera. My Pantera is fairly stock and the engine output is far less than the ZF's advertised capabilities. Dennis is about two hours down the road and I spent several hours looking at the problems with first and fourth gear that result from enthusiastic use of the ZF. He confirmed that the design of the ZF is great and will handle significant horsepower but first and fourth have been an issue for years and years. Because Dennis is highly qualified, he knows how to use the ZF in his 700hp plus Pantera and can rebuild his tranny in a heartbeat, if needed. My rebuild was about 6K including labor. It looks like a ZF from RBT will wind up in the 40s mentioned on this forum for about
12K, including labor. So, if I have some question as to whether or not it will last, my real price with an expensive rebuild is 18K. At 7,000 rpms going from third to fourth and coming out of a sweeping corner, it's a little difficult to concentrate on precise shifting because fourth must be treated differently. Please don't get me wrong, the ZF is very desirable but in this day and age of computer assisted design, surely someone has the next generation of transaxle that is comparably priced and addresses the issues that have been around for a while. Does anyone in search of a ZF know a credible alternative that will handle big hp and torque and has dimensions very close to the ZF?
 

Russ Noble

GT40s Supporter
Lifetime Supporter
I still think you can't go past a 930. Cheaper to buy, cheaper to rebuild and appear to take big HP/TQ with no problems. See here http://www.gt40s.com/forum/tech-powertrain-transaxles/19746-930-failure.html

And if you are serious about racing, you could get a 930 cheap that was in need of a rebuild and fit a custom dogbox, sideplate, oiler, and still wind up cheaper (and better) than the average ZF. If you are worried about it being 'only' a four speed, don't be. Ford won LeMans twice with a four speed! And if you have a motor putting out the sort of HP/TQ these boxes will handle you will blow everything into the weeds anyway!!

Cheers
 
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Lynn Larsen

Lynn Larsen
Steve,

The Ford GT mules (the three cars built for Ford's anniversary) had RBT transaxles in them. And, as far as I can tell, they worked quite well. When it came time for production of the cars, it wasn't felt that RBT could maintain the production schedule. Ford then switched to the Ricardo transaxle.

Lynn
 

Ian Clark

Supporter
Hi Russ,

In a high power application the Porsche box may do ok, however if one is building a proper big buck, big power GT40 repro it just deserves the correct parts, if available, IMHO.

Most substitutions are made because the real parts are no longer made. Fortunately we can still get ZFs and Webers (with a wait).

The 6Speed RBT is used in the Saleen S7 and is holding up well in a heavier car with 650 hp. So the quality and reliability are there and the 5spd is just as tough.

It's easy to break a very expensive part with just a little too much bravado:)

Cheers
 

Russ Noble

GT40s Supporter
Lifetime Supporter
Ian,

I agree entirely, but I think Steve was having trouble getting his head round the 'big buck' side of the equation. In that case you can't go past the 930 IMHO

Cheers
 

Sandy

Gulf GT40
Lifetime Supporter
Canuk40 said:
Hi Russ,

The 6Speed RBT is used in the Saleen S7 and is holding up well in a heavier car with 650 hp. So the quality and reliability are there and the 5spd is just as tough.

Cheers

I don't think they are using them (ZF's) for the race cars. At one of the ALMS races the Saleen folks let me and my freinds poke around and they were using XTracks as I recall. Not to say the RBT is anything to worry about, but seems like more problematic then the 930 box with anyone that I have had conversations with (about transaxles). If you want to spend the bucks on authentic you need to check with Goran as he is retooling the T44 if Big Block, and the RBT as indicated for SBF use, but I'll guess you be spending some good $$ either. Someone that has cracked the case on the ZF can add to the info on the 930 durability thread about gear, shaft and R/P sizes and width. Would be a good bit of info.

Sandy
 

Ross Nicol

GT40s Supporter
I'm wheel to wheel racing against Porsche GT3, Ferrari 360 etc, etc and I think we established a couple of months ago that apart from a few english friends I am the only serious campaigner (proper racing where your opponents want to beat you over the line) of a GT40 Replica and I use a ZF 5 speed and have done for 4 years now.Moved to a motor with more torque this year and 450-500 hp and installed new 5 speed RBT ZF with better ratios.
I am known to be mechanically sympathetic but this does not mean I'm not aggressive. I'd say from my experience with the ZF transaxle, it is a proven quantity as far as I'm concerned and who knows when Russ gets his 930 on the track and unleashes the V8's torque that it wont go bang. Me I've seen too many Porsche guys not get off the start line and replacing gearboxes mid weekend. When I decided to use a ZF it was mostly because I didn't want a weakness in my racecar, that would have me rebuilding it all the time. After 4 years of hard racing the ZF has no down time. I'll add to that statement and say if something is crap I would tell you. So to finish I have no financial interest in RBT or ZF, just think it's worth sticking up for after 4 years of reliability in racing. Now who wants to race me off the line with their Audi box?
Ross
 

Russ Noble

GT40s Supporter
Lifetime Supporter
ross nicol said:
I'd say from my experience with the ZF transaxle, it is a proven quantity as far as I'm concerned and who knows when Russ gets his 930 on the track and unleashes the V8's torque that it wont go bang. Me I've seen too many Porsche guys not get off the start line and replacing gearboxes mid weekend.
Ross

Ross, I think the ZF is well proven as more than adequate for any 302, no argument.
How many of the destroyed Porsche Trans were 930's? Few, if any I would bet. Don't worry, when I spread my 930 all over the track, I will be the first to report it! But I won't be replacing it with a ZF either.

Cheers
 

Ross Nicol

GT40s Supporter
No I reckon you've probably got half a dozen 930s hanging around now Russ and you'll be able to kill the odd one or two. To be honest mate I wouldn't know what transaxles the Porsche guys destroy and I suppose most of the DNS failures are clutch related and not transaxles. I just hate Porsches and their drivers. They are boring cars with drivers who don't get their hands dirty and have fat cheque books.They mutter about driving standards but never look close enough at themselves. All their data is handed to them on a plate, where as I struggle on learning race by race what changes to make to my car.We have formed a break away club and now there is the Porsche club
( commonly known as "The Dark Side") and us. Our club is a friendly bunch and our intention is to nurture new drivers and slower cars to come and join us. The Dark side are only interested in getting on TV and how to make their next tax deductable dollar without working for it. Ok I'm a long way from transaxles now, who got me started? Must get off the soap box now.
LoL Ross
 
If any one is interested, I am able to offer a brand new unused RBT box for sale, it is confgured for GT40 by RBT with 94 mm CV output shafts. Please P M if you are interested
 

Russ Noble

GT40s Supporter
Lifetime Supporter
Ross,

Such bitterness in a young lad! The Porsche guys no doubt think THEY are the friendly bunch! LOL. I know what you mean though, they weren't impressed when my TR7 was dealing to some of them.

With regard to my second 930, that was a fortuitous stroke of luck when a friendly? Porsche guy just happened to come into my work with one in the back of his van. What could I say? I'd been scouring this country for a year to no avail and Bill's 930, which I had agreed to buy, was still an ongoing saga. By the time I'm finished with them I'll have two really bulletproof trans, spraybar, sideplate etc for less than the cost of one secondhand ZF. However don't forget we're talking about 'Team Kiwi Struggle' here and that unexpected additional expenditure held up the rest of the build! I don't expect to have to use the second one, it's just good insurance.

Cheers
 

Lynn Larsen

Lynn Larsen
Russ and Ross,

If it rains when the PCA is running at VIR, someone has to run around placing paper cups on all of the member's noses so that they don't drown. (just kidding, sort of, LOL!)

Hate the owners, but not the parts :)

Lynn
 
Bigblockquad said:
I'm having a problem getting ahold of RBT. For the last two weeks I've called and left several messages and a couple Emails, all of which have gone unanswered. Has anybody else experienced this problem? Any advise would be appreciated.

Lloyd and I have been friends for over ten years. And it's virtually impossible to get him to return an e-mail. He once told me that he checks e-mail so infrequently, that when he does, he has 2500+ messages in his in-box, mostly idle chatter from the Pantera e-mail forum. He rolls his eyes, grits his teeth, highlights all the messages and deletes them. :(

I have only so-so luck in getting him to return phone calls too.

Yet every time I happen to visit LA I drive by there, and he's just the nicest guy in the world--very friendly, genuine, and sincere. Even before the GT40 explosion, he was chronically overworked, and now it has become worse by orders of magnitude. His workshop is organized, yet invariably it has the appearance of chaos, as he is working on several gearboxes at once.

He is absolutely dedicated to quality and will take no shortcuts, which means that production is limited as a result. Last time I was there, I asked him about bringing on one or two workers to help with the backlog. He told me that he has a fellow that works part-time doing basic monkey-work (stripping down customer gearboxes and running the pieces through the parts-washer), but when it comes to analysis/diagnosis/repairs/reassembly, that is something that he alone can do. There are only a handful of people with the necessary experience and qualifications to work on these gearboxes, and of course Lloyd doesn't have the time to 'take somebody to school'. I know several other people who are equally qualified, and Lloyd has asked them to help him out, but they are overwhelmed with their own businesses (plus they are scattered in other parts of the country), so each has had to sadly turn him down.

Just today, in fact, I got a phone call from a guy who knows that I know Lloyd, asking for help--he sent his gearbox down there in October 2006 to have it overhauled, and has yet to hear back regarding the diagnosis/projected cost/projected delivery date. I am going down to LA for New Year's and will probably drop in and visit Lloyd on January 2nd, so I will post any information I can after that.

If you want to place an order for a gearbox, I might suggest an unorthodox method--place a deposit check in an envelope and mail it to him, with your contact information. I'm sure he opens his mail, and upon receiving a check I'm sure he would feel compelled to phone to formalize the order. That tactic might save several weeks of waiting time.

Above all, patience is necessary. Speaking of patience, Dennis Quella rebuilt my Pantera gearbox, and it took him almost three years!!!!! :)
 

Chris Kouba

Supporter
Mike Drew said:
Dennis Quella rebuilt my Pantera gearbox, and it took him almost three years!!!!! :)

I called Dennis mid-October (forget the exact date) for a -2 box in GT40 config. He called 8 Dec to tell me it was ready. Very competitive on the price as well.

Chris
 
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