RCR's Next car should be.....
- Thread starter Big-Foot
- Start date
Maserati birdcage
The M1 reminded me of another car I really love. Incredibly modern for 1969-1970, the Mercedes experimental Wankel powered C111. Blends bits of Gt40 and various other ideas including Mercedes beloved gull-wing doors.
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And is it worth thinking about a Replika? Or already thought about it when you got the drawing directly available? :thumbsup:
The cost to develop a car is massive...much more than most people can imagine.
So IMHO there is no market for an M1.....originals are still available and not in the Stratosphere price wise yet...replicas make no sense...kind of like a Pantera replica.
So IMHO there is no market for an M1.....originals are still available and not in the Stratosphere price wise yet...replicas make no sense...kind of like a Pantera replica.
I got no doubts in the exorbitant costs and agree in your position - but: have you got some more drawings and details of the M1? I would like to do some 3D work in CAD about it and I'm not able to find something more on the net...
Sorry No, I have no intention of doing anything M1 related...but you should be able to get some info online though...
I only happened to see the M1 print online some time ago and thought it may help you with your own project..
I only happened to see the M1 print online some time ago and thought it may help you with your own project..
I see Chris is selling those and the 2D moulds too....
Looks like M6 moulds have been pulled already...from Ebay that is..
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Repl...b4cQQitemZ190417378124QQptZUSQ5fCarsQ5fTrucks
Looks like M6 moulds have been pulled already...from Ebay that is..
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Repl...b4cQQitemZ190417378124QQptZUSQ5fCarsQ5fTrucks
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Maserati birdcage
A variation on the 917, the chassis K81, built in 1981 by Porsche racing specialists, Kremer Bros., with factory participation.The one original is for sale currently, at Jan Lühn This one would have little developmental cost for RCR, as it is based on the 917 chassis, but incorporates body changes that similar to those that were about to be seen in the 956 that was development at the time of this 917 based project.
I have more photos if anyone is interested, including some at LeMans when the car was campaigned in the 24 Hours , It was out at 7 hours with oil line failure after an off-road excursion. Raced only one more time, then in England, also DNF due to suspension breakage. These were not vintage racing, but actual current championship races. The factory learned from the private Kremer team about the body work aerodynamics and applied knowledge gained from this car to the 956, that carries much of the "look" of this car compared to the 917..slab lower sides, flatter rear section with full width wing, more 'scoop' at the front lower body lip....
cheers, :thumbsup: Jennifer
I have more photos if anyone is interested, including some at LeMans when the car was campaigned in the 24 Hours , It was out at 7 hours with oil line failure after an off-road excursion. Raced only one more time, then in England, also DNF due to suspension breakage. These were not vintage racing, but actual current championship races. The factory learned from the private Kremer team about the body work aerodynamics and applied knowledge gained from this car to the 956, that carries much of the "look" of this car compared to the 917..slab lower sides, flatter rear section with full width wing, more 'scoop' at the front lower body lip....
cheers, :thumbsup: Jennifer
Sure is, interesting roof mounted rear view mirror.
I remember the Cyclops cartoons, What a fun little ride idea..Reminds me of motorized bar-stools too. Now we have the Smart Car, kinda close if you added the lights and wings! Didn't someone build a Cyclops on a go-kart chassis??? Fuzzy memory, but I think I recall seeing a photo of it...
Kremer Porsche project...
Open roof for rear-view mirror....
Well now, there was a real good reason for that opening...[ From Jan Luhn's website] .....
"The Kremer brothers, famous for their successfully modified Porsche 935s (the most famous of all being the K3, which had won Le Mans in 1979), had been collecting parts for a planned one-off 917, intended as a show/concept project. Sufficient parts were in hand when the 1981 Le Mans regulations were released late in 1980. This was to be an interim/transition year between the old Group 6 and the new Group C categories, and as such created a loophole whereby a closed car could run in Group 6 as long as there was some sort of permanent opening in the roof. This was incorporated into the design of the 'new' 917 to see the roof mounted rear view mirror.
Kremer approached the ACO who were very keen on the idea, especially as it would create substantial interest for a year that had little else to offer, despite a country still riding high after Rondeau's win in 1980 and the little local WM team running four cars, two of which were running to provisional 1982 regulations and as such were the first Group C cars to officially enter Le Mans as they had their own category." ....."The concept and basis of the project was to take the original design, update it to incorporate current technology and build the new car from scratch at Kremer's workshops in Cologne. The Porsche factory co-operated by allowing the brothers to use the original drawings. The pay back for the factory would be lessons learned with reintroducing coupé aerodynamics as 'Spyders' had been to the fore since 1972. Porsche themselves were well advanced with the Group C 956 programme but any information gleaned would be most useful, even at that stage." ....." A particularly problematic area in the redesign was adapting suspension geometry and components to cope with the huge increase in tyre technology in the 10 year gap"....." Kremer opted for the 4.9-litre, [ VS the 4.5 ] assuming that the increased power but poorer fuel consumption would be a better bet against the turbocharged cars that would use more fuel anyway. With the project always running close to schedule, little time was devoted to the aerodynamics; the team concentrating more on the engineering side (similar to Porsche when they developed the 'Moby Dick' 935-78, hence the particularly long wing endplates on that car - they never had time on the track to evaluate trimming them up!). Body styling of the 917K81 was of course pretty much already done for the overall look but Kremer 'guessed' the rest, choosing an almost flat rear deck with a full width rear wing mounted on endplates integrated into the bodywork. Also gone were the rounded sides, latest 'slab' sides were introduced to assist the whole 'ground effect' underneath."
So there you have it....The Kremers got to play, and the factory got some small amount of aero data before the actual 956 bodies went into build and test. It was still the days before high power computational fluid dynamics and easy access to large wind tunnels, so common today in high budget racing, so any functional knowledge gain was well worth the pursuit.
I did not know that this car even existed until only a few days ago...It is indeed a rare one-off, authentic Porsche, and yet unique in almost every way. Sadly, not successful in the 2 times it was campaigned.
Jennifer
Kremer Porsche project...
Open roof for rear-view mirror....
Well now, there was a real good reason for that opening...[ From Jan Luhn's website] .....
"The Kremer brothers, famous for their successfully modified Porsche 935s (the most famous of all being the K3, which had won Le Mans in 1979), had been collecting parts for a planned one-off 917, intended as a show/concept project. Sufficient parts were in hand when the 1981 Le Mans regulations were released late in 1980. This was to be an interim/transition year between the old Group 6 and the new Group C categories, and as such created a loophole whereby a closed car could run in Group 6 as long as there was some sort of permanent opening in the roof. This was incorporated into the design of the 'new' 917 to see the roof mounted rear view mirror.
Kremer approached the ACO who were very keen on the idea, especially as it would create substantial interest for a year that had little else to offer, despite a country still riding high after Rondeau's win in 1980 and the little local WM team running four cars, two of which were running to provisional 1982 regulations and as such were the first Group C cars to officially enter Le Mans as they had their own category." ....."The concept and basis of the project was to take the original design, update it to incorporate current technology and build the new car from scratch at Kremer's workshops in Cologne. The Porsche factory co-operated by allowing the brothers to use the original drawings. The pay back for the factory would be lessons learned with reintroducing coupé aerodynamics as 'Spyders' had been to the fore since 1972. Porsche themselves were well advanced with the Group C 956 programme but any information gleaned would be most useful, even at that stage." ....." A particularly problematic area in the redesign was adapting suspension geometry and components to cope with the huge increase in tyre technology in the 10 year gap"....." Kremer opted for the 4.9-litre, [ VS the 4.5 ] assuming that the increased power but poorer fuel consumption would be a better bet against the turbocharged cars that would use more fuel anyway. With the project always running close to schedule, little time was devoted to the aerodynamics; the team concentrating more on the engineering side (similar to Porsche when they developed the 'Moby Dick' 935-78, hence the particularly long wing endplates on that car - they never had time on the track to evaluate trimming them up!). Body styling of the 917K81 was of course pretty much already done for the overall look but Kremer 'guessed' the rest, choosing an almost flat rear deck with a full width rear wing mounted on endplates integrated into the bodywork. Also gone were the rounded sides, latest 'slab' sides were introduced to assist the whole 'ground effect' underneath."
So there you have it....The Kremers got to play, and the factory got some small amount of aero data before the actual 956 bodies went into build and test. It was still the days before high power computational fluid dynamics and easy access to large wind tunnels, so common today in high budget racing, so any functional knowledge gain was well worth the pursuit.
I did not know that this car even existed until only a few days ago...It is indeed a rare one-off, authentic Porsche, and yet unique in almost every way. Sadly, not successful in the 2 times it was campaigned.
Jennifer
