Renault Transaxle Questions

I'm trying to put my car together but I'm having problems. It is a Rover V8 attached to a Renault transaxle, with an adaptor plate. I don't know the history of the car or the adpator plate set up. My problem is this:

When I mate the gearbox to the engine/adaptor plate and I look down through hole for the the clutch arm at the top of the gearbox, the end of the primary shaft on my gearbox is not long enough to go into the spigot bearing on the flywheel???? The adaptor plate is 15.5mm thick and I have measured the distance from the front face of the bellhousing to the end of the shaft, then from the mating face of the adaptor plate to the front face of the spigot on the flywheel where the shaft locates and the shaft will be about 2mm short!

I bought the kit part built - so I know nothing of the history. Are you supposed to get longer shafts when you use and adaptor plate? Or should I make up a top-hat spigot bearing or something? The strange thing is the car ran and drove around my farm when I got it!!!!! Now when I put it back together the shaft doesn't make it to the engine. I'm stumped.....maybe it never did make it to the engine and the release bearing etc was holding it in place. The shaft does seem to have had some wear and the release bearing is wrecked (it's only run for about 30mins in its whole life so far.

Two other questions:

1) Where do I go to get Renault gearbox spares
2) How do I identify my gearbox, as there seems to be a few numbers in different places?

Thanks guys, hope you can help. I'm typing this in desperation, covered in gearbox oil........

 

[Simon]

Mark,

Chris Cole is the Renault gearbox guru. Top bloke and he can probably answer all your questions and supply any parts

Simon

 

Wow Simon, that was quick!

Do you have contact details for him or should I try through the forum?

 

[Mike Pass]

Hi Mark,
You can contact Chris Cole on 01952 416051. I'm sure he will be able to sort out all of your Remault gearbox problems.
Cheers
Mike

 

Thanks Guys,

I'll try him tomorrow.

 

[MIKE]

Tim With Orange Car In Calif, Had One

Try Him

 

[BruceA]

You may have to make a 'top hat' spigot bearing. Ive done this on other engine/renault conversons and it works fine. Some gearboxes dont run in a spigot bearing - I had a Nissan N1 close ratio box out the other day and it doesnt run in a bearing. Mind you the shaft is short, so there is not as much loading on the bearing. The Renault inputshaft bearing is quite small, and would be better run in a spigot bearing.
To find out what kind of gearbox you have, there are 2 ways. If it is still there, on the back of the gearbox, on the gearchange housing, down the bottom is a small aluminium disk with a cover bolt through it - on there is stamped the model type.
Next sure way is to look on the back of the crownwheel. Every Renault box has the type engraved onto the back of the crownwheel. If its a UN1 version it will say this eg: UN1-13. Othewise the earlier 369 types have their type printed on the outside edge of the crownwheel as say "369-01" I(I just had a look at one)

 

Thanks.

I checked the gearbox and I do have a small ally disk. It reads 369 06 then 000663 at the bottom?

Can you buy top hat bearings off the shelf or does it need to be made up bespoke. I have a lathe and milling machine etc, so if I can get some idea of what I need I guess I could make one up OK.

 

Had a chat with Chris Cole (a nice guy indeed) - he seems to favour me sending the box to him and getting a longer shaft fitted. Can't believe it wasn't done in the first place..........this is the problem with buying something that someone else has given up on.........

I still think a top-hat would be cheaper and quicker..........then Chris said 'what about getting your ratios changed?' Hmmmmm..........interesting.........now I can see this getting a bit more expensive! He reckons at best my box right now will be a 3.89. What are you guys using and what would you recommend?

 

[Mike Pass]

Most people go for the Renault 21 Turbo box as this has the best ratios and is the strongest standard box. There are a few different Renault boxes around. I have a 21 turbo box in one of my GTD's and a Renault 30 (369 type) box in the other. Final drive choices depend on end end use and the top speed you want. Short ratio better acceleration but lower top speed and vice versa. Here is some info about the choices available

Model Part No. Ist 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Rev Diff
20 369.00 3.36 2.06 1.38 1.06 0.82 3.55 4.11
369.05 3.36 2.06 1.38 1.06 0.82 3.55 4.11
20TX 369 3.36 2.06 1.38 1.06 0.87 3.55 3.778
20LS/TS 369 3.82 2.18 1.41 1.03 0.86 3.55 3.778
21Turbo UN1-013 3.36 2.05 1.38 1.03 0.82 3.54 3.44
25GTX UN 1-03 3.36 2.05 1.38 1.04 0.82 3.55 3.89
25V6 UN 1-04 3.36 2.05 1.38 0.96 0.76 3.55 3.89
Alpine GTA UN1-05 3.36 2.05 1.38 1.04 0.82 3.55 3.44
25 Blindee UN 1-06 3.36 2.05 1.38 0.96 0.76 3.55 4.11
Alpine Turbo UN1-07 3.36 2.05 1.38 0.96 0.76 3.55 3.44
25V6 Turbo UN1-08 3.36 2.05 1.38 0.96 0.76 3.55 3.778
30TX 369-01/06/017 3.36 2.05 1.38 1.06 0.82 3.55 3.89
30TS 369-01/06/014 3.36 2.05 1.38 1.06 0.82 3.55 3.89

Cheers
Mike

 

[BruceA]

Mark, the 369 came out in the Renault 20 and 30 models. You will have to count the teeth on the crownwheel and pinion to see what ratio you have. More likely you will have the 3.89 R30 model. Yes, you can have a new input shaft fitted, they just 'slide' into place. I made up a spigot bearing and pressed it into the crank out of a block of bronze, works fine. The 369 model has a 4-spider diff unit, whereas the R21Turbo etc dont, only a 2-spider unit (the V6's do etc) You can adapt one to go into your UN1 XX box with a small adapter plate. Check out the photo below. As for changing the ratios, you will have to go the path of a new 1-peice shaft unless he is going to weld on gear billets and machine them. Check my photo attached with a 1-peice shaft and the 369 4-spider diff in a UN1-13 box. It also has revised ratios based on the machine and weld technique.

 

Thanks for your help guys. G/box is out of the car and sitting on a pallet awaiting collection to go to Chris Coles.

Thats a nice looking mod to the box Bruce. Hopefully mine will come back looking like that!

What a job I had getting the spigot bearing out the crank..........phew!

 

[Howard Jones]

Mark, Ask Chris about a Quaife TBD. He did mine with the CR 1st and 2nd gears along with the Quaife LSD. I'm happy with the ratios but I am completely blown away with the magic of the Quaife LSD. The best thing you can do to a GT40.

 

Update:

My box is at Chris Coles and he has given me too options, over and above the repair work:

1) Fit a taller 5th gear. 3.88 to 3.44 which will cost around £470

2) Fit all new gear ratios from 21t (I think) which is £800 but I can offset my own cluster for £200 briinging the price down to £600.

There isn't a great deal of money between them, but my problem is I haven't driven the car yet, so it's very hard to make the choice.

The 3rd option is just to leave the ratios as they are...........but I would hate to find out that I'm travelling at 80mph on the motorway and the car is revving it's nuts off and guzzling fuel. I only want this as tractable road car - I ain't going racing in this one.

Any advice most welcome............

 

[SteveB]

Mark

Chris reworked a Renault 25 box for me, I went for the higher 5th; whatever else you do this will give a better result for the cruising, lower revs noise and better fuel economy.

Steve

 

[BruceA]

Mark. In your last post, you say that you have mentioned about changing the 5th gear ratio. What you have said in your post relates to the final drive (crown wheel and pinion). You have a 369 gearbox that has a 3.89:1 diff ratio. The other desirable ratio is the 3.44 which is available in the 21 turbo and Alpine cars. The standard 5th gear ratio from your box is 0.89:1. There is another ratio available which is the 0.76. This is from the V6 Turbo models and the Lotus Esprit V8 box.
My thoughts on it are: it might be a good crusing ratio, but if you are flat out down the back straight of a racetrack going from 4th to 5th you will slow your accelleration due to the ratio gap - you want to keep accellerating, not go into cruise mode!!! My second 'opinion' is that because the 5th gear is overhanging with only 1 side bearing support, there is more 'thrust' available between the higher overdrive ratio gears, effectivly pushing them apart easier. I feel that 5th gear is the most stressed gear in the box because of this. (Thoughts and theories welcome on this)
I have had various engines hanging on both styles of gearbox (369 and UN1) and the only change Id make is to narrow the 1st and 2nd gears. One car I had when testing, I clamped a video camera on it to do 'chassis looking' views, and when you see how it performs with the standard ratios, its not really worth the change. I should find a way of posting it on here so you can see and hear the box in operation.

Oh and while we are talking input shafts, I can see how things broke. The splined end of the shaft really just 'sits' unaided in the sleeve, so when you released the pressure plate, the clutch plate would be litterly 'hanging' in the breeze!!! A lot of the Japanese front wheel drive cars have their boxes like that, but they have a very short 1 peice input shaft with suitable shaft support bearing. It would be quite easy just to put another 'longer' shaft in that gets into the spigot bearing.
There is a guy here in NZ that has a GT40 with a 350 chev in it (webers, blah blah) and a 369 box. Its been dynoed at 450hp at the rear wheels with similar torque figures. Now he hammers the hell out of the car, and has never had a gearbox issue.