Ross racing this weekend
- Thread starter ross nicol
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Ross Nicol
GT40s Supporter
Yes Sandy I'm getting very good temps across the tread now and the slicks have that nice grainy effect for the full width.At the last meeing at Phillip Island I can remember feeling the bumps caused by rubber shifting across the tread while racing. I put that ( at the time ) down to picking up marbles from being off line a bit, but now I reckon it was my own rubber just shifting to the side that wasn't planted squarely on the track.
Tim damn I missed that last night but I did see a Tasman series race at Warwick Farm on about 2 weeks ago, Clark,Hill in Lotus 49s,Amon ferrari, Brabham etc. Great stuff even though black and white is not great for TV nowdays.
So to summarize events around the world Russ need you to add NZ
US UK Australia
--- --- ---------
Hill climb Hill Climb Hill climb
Description- Cars run up a hill against the clock shortest time wins.
Sprint- short 25 min Sprint-Car runs Sprint- Multiple cars
wheel to wheel race Laps against clock on track at once.
laps against clock.
SCCA Solo- Laps
against clock fastest time
is the winner
Around the world I presume Drags are the same, Autocross/ motorkana, Rally- offroad/ Tarmac, Drifting. I do understand specialised cars are built for different events and our cars are unlikely to win a hill climb for instance, but I did take FTD at Rob Roy hill climb in my car. Didn't get out of 2nd gear by the way.
This is good stuff keep the info coming.Hey Malcolm how about getting the wheel to wheel racers to share their experiences.I promise I'll have a camera in my car next year. I was going to put it in for the weekend but the handling was so good I thought I'd better concentrate.
Ross
Tim damn I missed that last night but I did see a Tasman series race at Warwick Farm on about 2 weeks ago, Clark,Hill in Lotus 49s,Amon ferrari, Brabham etc. Great stuff even though black and white is not great for TV nowdays.
So to summarize events around the world Russ need you to add NZ
US UK Australia
--- --- ---------
Hill climb Hill Climb Hill climb
Description- Cars run up a hill against the clock shortest time wins.
Sprint- short 25 min Sprint-Car runs Sprint- Multiple cars
wheel to wheel race Laps against clock on track at once.
laps against clock.
SCCA Solo- Laps
against clock fastest time
is the winner
Around the world I presume Drags are the same, Autocross/ motorkana, Rally- offroad/ Tarmac, Drifting. I do understand specialised cars are built for different events and our cars are unlikely to win a hill climb for instance, but I did take FTD at Rob Roy hill climb in my car. Didn't get out of 2nd gear by the way.
This is good stuff keep the info coming.Hey Malcolm how about getting the wheel to wheel racers to share their experiences.I promise I'll have a camera in my car next year. I was going to put it in for the weekend but the handling was so good I thought I'd better concentrate.
Ross
Ross Nicol
GT40s Supporter
Ok I had that all in a table form and when posted it ruined it. Hope as the Beatles sang "we can work it out".
Ross
Ross
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
Here we go, I never thought I would see myself siding with an old rock star and a Kiwi to boot. IMHO we are talking about two different things here, motor racing and motor sport. Motor racing once again IMHO, is when people compete head two head against each other. Whether on an oval, a circuit,or a kart track. Whether on two or four wheels.
Motor sport on the other hand is where the competitors compete against the clock, hill climb, Gymkhana, rally.(duck flames),sprint, regularity event etc.
And hey, it does not matter what form of the sport you are involved in as long as you have fun.
Motor sport on the other hand is where the competitors compete against the clock, hill climb, Gymkhana, rally.(duck flames),sprint, regularity event etc.
And hey, it does not matter what form of the sport you are involved in as long as you have fun.
Ross Nicol
GT40s Supporter
Ooh Pete I hate it when your nice to me.
ross nicol said:
Where?? No 40's racing here yet! But a whole gaggle of them expected to be out within the next few months.
Anyway NZ has the usual range of motorsport activitities which guys can start off with in their standard road cars work their way up through if they wish. At some level, I think it is club racing, roll protection is required. What I've written below is from memory so there may be some detail inaccuracies but you'll get the general picture.
.
Gymkhana, around the cones, sealed and grass one car at a time max length only a few hundred yards.
Sealed sprints usually on part of the race track around cones one car at a time.Somewhat longer.
Hillclimbs.
Pursuit sprints using the race track, 2 cars on the track at the same time, good way to cut your teeth on wheel to wheel, 1st across the line wins, usually two laps standing start.
Club racemeetings, 30 or more cars on the track at once, can be scratch, reverse grid or handicap races. Usually three or four 6,8, or 10 lap races over the course of the day.
Endurance racing, at present 3 hour events, just a longer version of club racing.
Promoted race meetings paying spectators TV coverage. Spring board for our young future international stars, usually big dollar national championship or international events. Although SFOS comes into this category,it's not a springboard so much as a metaphorical wheel chair for the hasbeens!
That's the progression to sealed circuit racing. There's a similar set up for rallying.
Keep up the good work Ross, car looks awesome.
Cheers
It's funny how people define things so tightly around themselves.
I have a friend, now the State Rally Champion, who argues that circuit racing is comparitively boring and that the fun is where the dirt, continuously changing roads and trees are.
They race against each other (via the clock) but not wheel to wheel; I contend that they are still racing.
I managed to convince a few of them (Tas' rally drivers and their cars) to my local track recently. A friend and I did camera car duty (and mixed it up a little).
I managed to broaden their view a bit and they'll be attempting to do at least one similar event a year from now on. We're still laughing about it weeks later.
I have some pretty cool video of this (three in-cars and three trackside cameras), I can post it if it's of any interest. No GT40, just my WRX again.
I know what the cut and thrust of wheel to wheel racing is like, I just decided it's not worth it for me at this time, at least not on any scale other than casual fun.
I have never been all that driven to prove myself superior to others, my drive was always to improve personally, to beat myself (I mean that in the nicest possible way ).
There are plus' and minus' to all the listed (and other) forms of Motorsport: what is "superior" to one may be boring, too expensive, too time consuming, too political etc for someone else.
People make choices. As long as they are trying to beat something tangible, whether it be the clock or someone else across a line, then in my opinion they are racing. As long as the result is not subjective then I'll continue to define it that way.
I have more difficulty including Drifting as racing because it has a subjective result. I remain open on that one.
I may go so far as to say that to my mind Hill-climb is probably the "purest" form of racing of all.
OK, just for the hell of it :-
A dictionary defines racing as - "the sport of engaging in contests of speed".
Speed, as you know, involves time and distance. Any of the listed forms of Motorsport fit that definition in my view.
Perhaps, instead of redefining words, and telling those of us who've made different choices to call our sport something else, some of you need a new title for your pursuits, so I'll give you one :- Motor-Combat.
As Jack Brabham's (surely an adequate spokesman) view was that one should "win a race at the slowest possible speed" I contend that wheel to wheel "racing" is not racing at all as you don't actually need to be fast to win, you just need to cross the line first. A form of indoor bicycle sprint racing often has the two riders "stalled" on the track trying to gain advantage, barely moving at all. Under my new definition they also are engaged in Motor-Combat and are not in fact racing.
Long live Motorsport, including Motor-Racing and also the rather Neanderthal sport of Motor-Combat.
Tim.
I have a friend, now the State Rally Champion, who argues that circuit racing is comparitively boring and that the fun is where the dirt, continuously changing roads and trees are.
They race against each other (via the clock) but not wheel to wheel; I contend that they are still racing.
I managed to convince a few of them (Tas' rally drivers and their cars) to my local track recently. A friend and I did camera car duty (and mixed it up a little).
I managed to broaden their view a bit and they'll be attempting to do at least one similar event a year from now on. We're still laughing about it weeks later.
I have some pretty cool video of this (three in-cars and three trackside cameras), I can post it if it's of any interest. No GT40, just my WRX again.
I know what the cut and thrust of wheel to wheel racing is like, I just decided it's not worth it for me at this time, at least not on any scale other than casual fun.
I have never been all that driven to prove myself superior to others, my drive was always to improve personally, to beat myself (I mean that in the nicest possible way
).There are plus' and minus' to all the listed (and other) forms of Motorsport: what is "superior" to one may be boring, too expensive, too time consuming, too political etc for someone else.
People make choices. As long as they are trying to beat something tangible, whether it be the clock or someone else across a line, then in my opinion they are racing. As long as the result is not subjective then I'll continue to define it that way.
I have more difficulty including Drifting as racing because it has a subjective result. I remain open on that one.
I may go so far as to say that to my mind Hill-climb is probably the "purest" form of racing of all.
OK, just for the hell of it
:-A dictionary defines racing as - "the sport of engaging in contests of speed".
Speed, as you know, involves time and distance. Any of the listed forms of Motorsport fit that definition in my view.
Perhaps, instead of redefining words, and telling those of us who've made different choices to call our sport something else, some of you need a new title for your pursuits, so I'll give you one :- Motor-Combat.
As Jack Brabham's (surely an adequate spokesman) view was that one should "win a race at the slowest possible speed" I contend that wheel to wheel "racing" is not racing at all as you don't actually need to be fast to win, you just need to cross the line first. A form of indoor bicycle sprint racing often has the two riders "stalled" on the track trying to gain advantage, barely moving at all. Under my new definition they also are engaged in Motor-Combat and are not in fact racing.
Long live Motorsport, including Motor-Racing and also the rather Neanderthal sport of Motor-Combat.
Tim.
Last edited:
Another cool topic! I have to say that Autocross is fun and driving around a track at high speed is interesting but nothing beats wheel to wheel racing, the line is always moving, slower/faster cars are all over the track, you really have to think in many dimensions and your strategy is continously changing.
But it is all good, anything that gets the car out of the barn is ok with me.
But it is all good, anything that gets the car out of the barn is ok with me.
jac mac said:
Yeah Jac Mac, being a hasbeen that never was, I really enjoy SFOS.
Tim, you're right about rallying, I think I stated in a post some time ago that rallying is for men and racing is for wimps! I have done gravel rashing as well as tarmac rallies in recent years. This is a buzz, but also it's bloody dangerous, and when you've caught a car on the stage there is a wheel to wheel racing element to it as well! It is interesting that generally the governing bodies don't describe this as racing although the media often does.
Hillclimbing? Well, qualifying for grid position for a race is reasonably pure?
However everyone to their own, I'd rather see guys out there competing with their cars and enjoying them, than having them languishing in air cond garages!
Interesting thoughts.....
Cheers
Ross Nicol
GT40s Supporter
Russ I don't think I can come over for the "Southern Festival Of speed" now, because if I do I'm a hasbeen aren't I? However can I have my wheelchair with 500hp if I do come? I think Tim is right about rallying too.They say tarmac rallies are the fastest growing motorsport at the moment and I believe they are more dangerous than dirt rallies because of the unknown grip levels at any corner and trees that line the road edge. I believe Peter Brock would still be answering his phone if he had stuck to circuit racing.I have never really been into rallying but I do appreciate the talented driving required to do well at it.
Ross
Ross
Ah thinking of bicylces reminded me of a driving test question.....
You are driving along a narrow two lane road with a NO PASSING sign?posted, and come upon a bicycle rider. Do you follow this slow-moving?bicycle rider for the next 2 miles, or do you break the law and pass?
Which is the correct choice?
Look at the photo...
Scroll down...
Why take unnecessary risks?
You are driving along a narrow two lane road with a NO PASSING sign?posted, and come upon a bicycle rider. Do you follow this slow-moving?bicycle rider for the next 2 miles, or do you break the law and pass?
Which is the correct choice?
Look at the photo...
Scroll down...
Why take unnecessary risks?
Attachments
Hi Clayton,
I'll try to keep it brief Ross.
Facts to remember - even though it's not a race car it's setup is track oriented; I have a shoulder injury that made the steering a priority.
So far front suspension and steering changes are limited to a replacement lower wishbone and joints, stiffer springs, revised shock settings, castor reduced significantly, camber, replacement steering linkage and UV joints - with much improved phasing of the joints, track is also slightly wider.
None of the changes have been particularly major but the cumulative effect has been positive.
When I'm happy that I have my car sorted I'll post a report including settings. Hopefully it'll be received better than my review which I think was taken the wrong way by some.
I believe there is a thread somewhere where some RF front suspension issues are discussed.
Just discovered Late Night Legends has more old racing on (new series) so I'll come back later.
Tim.
I'll try to keep it brief Ross.
Facts to remember - even though it's not a race car it's setup is track oriented; I have a shoulder injury that made the steering a priority.
So far front suspension and steering changes are limited to a replacement lower wishbone and joints, stiffer springs, revised shock settings, castor reduced significantly, camber, replacement steering linkage and UV joints - with much improved phasing of the joints, track is also slightly wider.
None of the changes have been particularly major but the cumulative effect has been positive.
When I'm happy that I have my car sorted I'll post a report including settings. Hopefully it'll be received better than my review which I think was taken the wrong way by some.
I believe there is a thread somewhere where some RF front suspension issues are discussed.
Just discovered Late Night Legends has more old racing on (new series) so I'll come back later.
Tim.
The only thing I'll add is that my changes suit me and my car. It seems that Ross and I may well be headed in the same direction in some areas but other owners, Chris L springs to mind, are happy with their cars as they are.
Race-track and road are night and day when it comes to setup.
Tim.
Race-track and road are night and day when it comes to setup.
Tim.
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
roaldin said:
Tim, I have had a complete shoulder replacement so any thoughts/ideas you have to make the steering lighter would be appreciated. I have been searching for a suitable electric power steering unit.
Ross Nicol
GT40s Supporter
Hi Pete
We are miles off topic now but I'll give you the good oil if you like. To lighten the steering there is more than just one way, however your'e unlikely to put skinny front wheels on so I'll leave that one out.Another option is to change the steering rack for one with a lower ratio but the downside is more steering wheel movement to turn corners.The best way is to look at the front wheel caster angle. It is likely to be in the 6 degree area and you could take it back to 3 to 4 degrees. This will lighten the steering but you will lose some of the self centering of the steering wheel.Everything is a compromise but you will find a happy medium. You should be able to change the front caster by altering spacers on the top wishbone. Peter R would be the man to help I reckon.Hope this helps I have changed mine.
Ross
We are miles off topic now but I'll give you the good oil if you like. To lighten the steering there is more than just one way, however your'e unlikely to put skinny front wheels on so I'll leave that one out.Another option is to change the steering rack for one with a lower ratio but the downside is more steering wheel movement to turn corners.The best way is to look at the front wheel caster angle. It is likely to be in the 6 degree area and you could take it back to 3 to 4 degrees. This will lighten the steering but you will lose some of the self centering of the steering wheel.Everything is a compromise but you will find a happy medium. You should be able to change the front caster by altering spacers on the top wishbone. Peter R would be the man to help I reckon.Hope this helps I have changed mine.
Ross
Ross,
Have you moved or considered moving the rack at all?
I was waiting for some revised front uprights (along with different rack etc) but if they aren't available soon I think I'll start playing around with rack position within the constraints of the components I have.
Could you expand on how things went at your recent race meeting in areas other than cornering - eg braking, acceleration, stability etc?
Pete,
I have looked at various power steering setups. I did find two or three different possible setups but to be honest I think I may finally be getting the car to a point where I can drive it happily without having to worry about my shoulder. As Ross said - setting front castor to 3-4 degrees will improve steering weight but it doesn't help the fairly dead (IMO) feel of the steering.
It is well worth looking at the steering shaft with the UV on each end. It was money well spent on my car. Speak to Andrew A at Hardie-Spicer if you're interested. Tell him Tim from Tas sent you - I'm sure that'll jack the price up a bit.
Of course I can't guarantee it would give the improvement I found, mine may have been a particularly bad example, I don't know.
Strangely, increasing front camber to 2.5 degrees seemed to improve steering feel as well.
I doubt we are using similar tyres.
I will shortly be giving the remaining steering joints the treatment advised by Chris L so hopefully that will yield additional improvement.
Power steering is still in the back of my mind as a fallback position.
I still haven't done much recent testing of the car as I've been concentrating on something else so progress is fairly slow. Cheating by getting "data" and opinion from Ross is very helpful.
Tim.
Have you moved or considered moving the rack at all?
I was waiting for some revised front uprights (along with different rack etc) but if they aren't available soon I think I'll start playing around with rack position within the constraints of the components I have.
Could you expand on how things went at your recent race meeting in areas other than cornering - eg braking, acceleration, stability etc?
Pete,
I have looked at various power steering setups. I did find two or three different possible setups but to be honest I think I may finally be getting the car to a point where I can drive it happily without having to worry about my shoulder. As Ross said - setting front castor to 3-4 degrees will improve steering weight but it doesn't help the fairly dead (IMO) feel of the steering.
It is well worth looking at the steering shaft with the UV on each end. It was money well spent on my car. Speak to Andrew A at Hardie-Spicer if you're interested. Tell him Tim from Tas sent you - I'm sure that'll jack the price up a bit.
Of course I can't guarantee it would give the improvement I found, mine may have been a particularly bad example, I don't know.
Strangely, increasing front camber to 2.5 degrees seemed to improve steering feel as well.
I doubt we are using similar tyres.
I will shortly be giving the remaining steering joints the treatment advised by Chris L so hopefully that will yield additional improvement.
Power steering is still in the back of my mind as a fallback position.
I still haven't done much recent testing of the car as I've been concentrating on something else so progress is fairly slow. Cheating by getting "data" and opinion from Ross is very helpful.
Tim.
