Snob - or wot?

[Malcolm]

Once I was lucky enough to be driven about in a real GT40, no illusion this! We pulled up in a car park adn within seocnds a guy comes runnig over to have a closer look. He asked THAT question, "is it real?". I have had my GTD now for close to 15 years. After all those years, this was the first time I could say "yes"! It really did feel weird to be able to say that after all the times I have had that question when in my GTD. Seriously, quite a moment!

My stock answer is Yes it is a real GTD 40. They normally never actually ask "it is a real GT40" but just "is it real?". Leaves one with plenty of options to answer.

In my view between replica and original, they are as different as chalk and cheese. But if you can't play with an original then a replica is just fine with me.

 

[Kristian Wraae]

Continuing the comparison discussion a little more, how does the GOX mono stack up against the original??

Well as you probably have read they claim that all the pressed steel panels are made from the original drawings so I assume it's a close as you can get.

Personally I don't mind if a car is not totally original if it just has other qualities such as good performance. The RCR cars look very nice with their aluminum monocoque and the suspension setup. Their P4 is far from original with it's "borrowed" monocoque but if it's a good performer it'll mean less to me since no matter what building an original looking P4 is virtually impossible.

 

[J. Salmon]

Not many snobs here...

From an newbie's perspective, I completely disagree. I have found nothing but nice folks here, and with the Cobra guys too. But there are bozo's everywhere...

This weekend a buddy came to visit and we went up to the Blue Ridge Parkway for a long bike ride. While we were packing up, a couple drove up in a new Solstice. I hadn't seen one up close, and they do look nice. There was no one else around, so I yelled out "nice car" and waved. No response. They pulled in and the woman got out to through something in a trash can. So I got out of the car and made a point to yell out another hello, waved again and said "that's a beautiful car!" They acted like I was going to rob them. The man had a continued look of disdain, the women sorta nodded. I got back in the car and turned to my buddy who just shook his head. (I find it more ironic that my buddy recently bought a new Ford GT...too bad he couldn't fit the bike in it so he couldn't drive it up for me to see).

 

[GregF]

I think that any "genuine" GT 40 would have a very hard time keeping up with most of the replicas I have seen so far, and few could out brake them!

A few good lines come to mind for any of the snobs out there:

How about -

Those who have all the answers usually don't know what the questions are.

Integrity is like oxygen: the higher you go, the less there is of it.

Birds of a feather flock together and crap on your car.

If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague.

Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.

or my personal favourite:

The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing at the right time, but also to leave unsaid the wrong thing at that tempting moment!


Cheers

Greg

 

[Howard Jones]

GT40's are like gorgeous women, some have bigger "tires", complexion, or a slightly different stance, and they are all hot, just slightly different temperatures. They will all leave you out of breath and sweating if you give her a go.

 

[Charlie Farley]

Jneilsen,
The originals were not 'all different', they were made in two factories, Abbey and Tennants. There were differences between the two chassis, but i bet you couldnt tell me the differencies, if they were stood side by side!!!

The GOX chassis is true to the original, but he hasnt had the benefit of an original car sitting in his workshop for 3 months. . . .
I go along with previous comments, we who will own replicas should nurture their own history and discourage comparisions with the handful of genuine originals.
After all, there are no original excellent bottles of fine wine available, the subsequent harvests are duplicates of the original. Glug glug !!

 

[David Briggs]

snobs

This topic is just to hard to stay away from! First I have to say that anybody who has one of these cars and feels that he has to make excuses because it is not an original has got a severe self esteem problem! When I show up at any event, surrounded by high dollar, beautiful cars, this is the car that people want to talk about. It always draws a crowd. It is fun, fast and loud and nothing looks quite like it. It is a machine that just looks right, some aircraft have that look, Spitfire, P51, Fw190 come to mind. I saw my first replica in the early 80's, it was an Autokraft(?) made in England and I wanted one desperately! I have had many cool cars, MG tds, A's, B's, Tigers, a rh drive AC Cobra (COB 6055), Jaguars, Beemers, Mercedes, a 308, Pantera on and on, I have had this car 2 years and I still sneak out to the garage at night just to look at it.
My Gt is not a copy of anything, I love the basic shape w/o stripes and I keep upgrading it.
Even though it is a 40 yr old design it still turns heads and still stacks up well against modern supercars.
There were only a little over 100 originals and I doubt that many of those are driven anywhere except in and out of a trailer.
And no, I wouldn't swap it for a new GT.
IMHO

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

I have had this car 2 years and I still sneak out to the garage at night just to look at it.

IMHO

Phew, David you just made me feel better. I thought I was the only one who did that.

 

[Safir GT40 Spares]

The ERA is more accurate with chassis design when considering the monocoque panel layout than say a CAV or RCR monocoque, but, it still isn't as accurate as the Superformance car is reported to be, and, looks to be with their attention to specific parts (and then besides the chassis factor in the steel roof on the Superformance, etc.).
.

Best,
Ron

Ron,

As I promised in an earlier post, I have been back to the site daily; and I am loving it!

The Superformance car is really fantastic. Safir has been working with Superformance at various stages and I have seen the cars. They are the best GT40s for the money.

The "Snob" thread is a perfect lead for a question that I have for you. At the top of the site page the MkI, MkII, MkIII, and the MkIV as well as the Gulf and Mirage are given "top billing", with no mention of the MkVs (a serial- numbered vehicle very close to my heart). Does not the GT40s site recognize the MkVs as genuine GT40s?

Bob Wood

 

[Safir GT40 Spares]

The ERA is more accurate with chassis design when considering the monocoque panel layout than say a CAV or RCR monocoque, but, it still isn't as accurate as the Superformance car is reported to be, and, looks to be with their attention to specific parts (and then besides the chassis factor in the steel roof on the Superformance, etc.).

Ron,

As I promised in an earlier post, I have been back to the site daily; and I am loving it!

The Superformance car is really fantastic. Safir has been working with Superformance at various stages and I have seen the cars. They are the best GT40s for the money.

The "Snob" thread is a perfect lead for a question that I have for you. At the top of the site page the MkI, MkII, MkIII, and the MkIV as well as the Gulf and Mirage are given "top billing", with no mention of the MkVs (a serial- numbered vehicle very close to my heart). Does not the GT40s site recognize the MkVs as genuine GT40s?

Bob Wood

 

[Jonte]

Continuing the comparison discussion a little more, how does the GOX mono stack up against the original??

Well, Goran has original blueprints/drawings and made tools to manufacture all steel panels, so it should be close to the original. He even has his own foundry to make various parts to the car.

But the fact remains and is common for all other manufactures... they´re all replicas and personally I don´t care as long as the owners are happy with they´re car and keep the GT40 spirit alive

imho

 

[Keith]

The "Snob" thread is a perfect lead for a question that I have for you. At the top of the site page the MkI, MkII, MkIII, and the MkIV as well as the Gulf and Mirage are given "top billing", with no mention of the MkVs (a serial- numbered vehicle very close to my heart). Does not the GT40s site recognize the MkVs as genuine GT40s?

Bob Wood

What a great point! Never thought of it like that, but in purist terms I suppose the MKI, MKII, MKIII and MKIV are all original "production" models contemporary with Ford's funding of the project (with the possible exception of the Mirage), and thus represent the baseline from which all other "makes" and marques duly sprung. So, in an all too short 6 years - these models were all created. The MKV is surely from a different era though faithful to the original, and as such is a different animal so to speak.

There is also the old chestnut that "a MKV is a replica of a MKI" - I've seen that said here on this forum no less..

But an interesting question none the less...and i think there will be many more answers!rockonsmile

 

[Jim Nielsen]

Snob - or wot

Andy/Charley Farley,
I cant tell if you are trying to be smart or just maybe I am reading it wrong. I said I had never seen a real GT40 in person so I doubt I would know all the differences. I guess you do so that makes you a much better person. I meant that being a race car most had many changes made to make things work. You already said the chassis has differences. I believe they used different transaxles and engine configurations. No I dont know all about every gt40 produced but I know they are a timelessly beautiful car. One day I will enjoy the heck out of mine and it will not be near an original nore will I care.
Jim Nielsen

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

Tired of the B/s

I was talking to a Porsche 911 owner yesterday and he asked, "is it a replica"?
I said it has chassis number 48 so if you reckon chassis number 1 was the original then I guess it is. Then I said I'm not sure how many 911's have been built but I'm sure they number tens of thousands, so I guess your ride is a replica also.
He went away scratching his head...

IMHO the original/replica argument is BS. Most race cars are changed, tweaked, modified and altered by their respective owners so what is an original?
My best effort at defining original, is a car that was built to compete in the endurance races of the 60's including Le Mans. If it actually competed that makes it even more desirable.
But does that make a hand built DRB, RCR or CAV not an original? In my opinion they are original DRB's RCR's and CAV's, as long as you don't try and pass them off as "original" GT40's who gives a sh*t?

 

[Mark]

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that all these cars are replicas. It doesn't matter that 90 odd percent of the parts on the SPF 40 are interchangeable with an original either. It will always be a replica. And so what?

The ammounts of money, love, sweat and tears that have gone into them mean that the owners have a passion for their cars and the romance of the GT40 legacy. If any owner of an RF, GTD, KVA, RCR, CAV or Tornado etc etc etc, is troubled by the public asking if their car is a replica, then they should have spent the money on a real 911 turbo or Pantera, Ferrari, Aston Martin etc etc.

When I finally shell out all that cash to buy my GT40, I can assure you all that this sort of question will trouble me for about 2 seconds. Or as long as it takes to climb in, fire her up and drive away. My answer will always be a resounding YES it is.

With my old 911, I often get the jealous types coming up and saying "well it's just a fast Beetle really, isn't it". Well no it isn't actually. Get back in your Mondeo and quit bugging me.

 

[Ron Earp]

Ron,
The "Snob" thread is a perfect lead for a question that I have for you. At the top of the site page the MkI, MkII, MkIII, and the MkIV as well as the Gulf and Mirage are given "top billing", with no mention of the MkVs (a serial- numbered vehicle very close to my heart). Does not the GT40s site recognize the MkVs as genuine GT40s?
Bob Wood

I think when Al came up with the idea for the logo it was to get the distinct body shapes of the cars with history so folks could learn about GT40s. Since the MKV cars are MKI style it was deemed redundant. The idea sort of fell by the wayside with other forum development and RCR cars being delivered into our respective garages.

But, Bob C. resurrected it and right now folks are writing text for each of the car types - MKI-MIV, Mirage, Lola roots. The plan is to have that icon "clickable" and when you click on a car it'll take you to a write up about that Mark. Maybe you'd like to do a writeup on the MKV?

The thread on write ups is here:

http://www.gt40s.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18743

As for the site recognizing them as "genuine GT40s", that'll depend on who you ask. Maybe that'd be a good poll - but the question should be precise - there are two I suppose: "Do you consider the MKV an original GT40?" and "Do you consider the MKV a genuine GT40?".

Best,
Ron

 

MKV

I'll stick my neck out and anawer that question Ron! yes & yes. The MKV and Safir is directly linked to the history of the original company (FAV). I believe anything Safir makes is from original tooling, plans and moulds. I would perfer a "New" original GT40 MKV from Safir!

 

[ChrisL]

I'll stick my neck out and anawer that question Ron! yes & yes. The MKV and Safir is directly linked to the history of the original company (FAV). I believe anything Safir makes is from original tooling, plans and moulds. I would perfer a "New" original GT40 MKV from Safir!

So where does that put those original race cars that were restored without the original tooling? And what of the original components that were externally sourced from suppliers that no longer exists? And although you could say that the tub is original because it’s built to the same design and use the same tooling, what would you say about the manufacture of the raw materials (eg sheet metal) that has changed over time such that the purity or properties are now different? … and on and on we can go.

I don't necessarily disagree incidentally with the comment. I'm just pointing out that even something that appears black-and-white on the surface may actually be quite murky when you look closer.

My opinion incidentally is that the GT40 MkV is an original GT40 MkV (surprise, surprise) because the manufacturer defines it as such, and for no other reason. But if you buy a GT40 MkV because you think it’s an original GT40 Mk1B, then you will have done your money.

 

[Paul]

I built mine under no illusion that it will always be a replica I was building it for me and because I fell in love with the GT40 when I was a teenager. Building it as an exact copy was always going to be an impossible task due to the space frame chassis plus being 300kms from any major centre so there has been some poetic licence used in the parts used for my car.
Living in South Africa in the sticks one does not often get asked if it is real more of “what is it a Ferrari”, which is strange when it is written on the side, but I am always happy and proud to tell them that it is a replica and it is always a buz when they reply that she is beautiful. One has no option but to talk to people when you dive one and as was said in another thread sometime ago if you don’t like talking to people then don’t have a GT40.
As to whether any GT40 is original is as we can see a debatable question as most of 100 or something that were built initially have had to be rebuilt because time and use have taken their toll. If a car has been rebuilt and the chassis and components repaired or replaced because of corrosion or damage does still make it original. One dictionary definition “Not derived from something else; fresh and unusual” or “A first form from which other forms are made or developed: Later models of the car retained many features of the original. “ If one uses this definition then the originality of the subsequent versions of the GT40 would be in question.
What it comes down to is the value of the car if you can claim it to be and original then it is worth a great deal of money.

Regards

 

[Bill D]

I'm just happy to have my RCR40. It's mine, it's all mine, and I don't care what "the purists" or "snobs" have to say.

Bill D