The Buffett Rule

[Frank3]

As I said earlier , I'm still trying to get my head around it .
Yes GDP = gross domestic product . At least that was what was proposed to me as the only fair tax . I took it to mean what you earn compared to all earnings in the country .
I myself like the flat tax , the same percentage of your income for everyone , no deductions , no loop holes . But then what evil devises would the IRS find to do with it's self ?
I kind of think an ultra tax on the ultra rich could be unfair , however I'm interested in hearing lots of opinions , and the reason for them . Helps me learn , may not change my opinion , but gives me a better idea

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

The President's point is that regardless of whether the income is generated via capital gains or ordinary income, having someone of Buffet's wealth taxed at an effective rate equal to or less than a secretary making $50k a year is pretty absurd.

I agree that piling taxes on the income side is not entirely ideal, but the 2-3% increases (or actually, just letting the Bush/Obama cuts expire) we are talking about here should not be crippling.

Buffet makes a fair point. And I do agree with those, primarily on the right, who contend that our tax structure is far too complicated with far too much incentives/disinecentives/social engineering built in. A much simpler graduated progressive system would work a lot better.

Agreed, but comparing capital gains tax to income tax is not a fair comparison in this case. The capital gains tax probably should be changed.

 

[Bill Musarra]

I can tell that some of you haven't been watching the Repubs debates. There are actually two good alternatives out there. One requires the repeal of the 16th amendment. It is call The Fair Tax published by John Linder and talk show host Neal Boortz(former attorney). I can hear the libs screaming now, but if you haven't read the book, which is only aboput 25 pages long(Iam guessing as I don't remember the exact # of pages), then you don't need to discuss it here. It is a simple read. Americans For Fair Taxation: Americans For Fair Taxation
Amazon.com: fair tax book
You can get it for your Kindle for a little over $2 and used paperback for about the same.
Amazon.com: The Fair Tax Book: Saying Goodbye to the Income Tax and the IRS (9780060875497): Neal Boortz, John Linder: Books
Its sister book answers the questions raised by the first book(read critics).
Amazon.com: FairTax: The Truth: Answering the Critics: Neal Boortz, John Linder, Rob Woodall: Books
The second is the plan touted by the only business man running for president, Herman Cain.
About Herman Cain | Herman Cain for President
I will leave it for you to look him up and read about him and the 9-9-9 plan. After you have read it then we will discuss it.
Herman Cain promotes economic plan | The Post and Courier, Charleston SC - News, Sports, Entertainment

On a side note, the tax system we enjoy,,,,,,, is an instrument held over the head of the taxpayers to be used for political purposes. It is used to promote class warfare and to harbour those that can afford it. Remember it is written by bureaucrats. It is something like 1400 pages long with tons of exemptions and trade offs. All from people that can afford to get the loopholes. If the fair tax or flat tax were instituted, it would take the power out of the hands of the politicians, because it would take a super majority to amend it. It is something that won't be easy to get. But it can be done. How you ask? By someone who will lead the people to it. Once explained to people, they understand it. It is simple to understand. But it is also easy to demagog. And that is something libs(read opponents) do too well.
Don't get me wrong. I am not a conservative or a liberal, just a human being, an American, interested in the preservation of the greatest country to ever exist. One who thinks the current president doesn't have a clue as to what needs to be done, or how to get it done.

Bill

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

I can tell that some of you haven't been watching the Repubs debates. There are actually two good alternatives out there. One requires the repeal of the 16th amendment. It is call The Fair Tax published by John Linder and talk show host Neal Boortz(former attorney). I can hear the libs screaming now, but if you haven't read the book, which is only aboput 25 pages long(Iam guessing as I don't remember the exact # of pages), then you don't need to discuss it here. It is a simple read. Americans For Fair Taxation: Americans For Fair Taxation
Amazon.com: fair tax book
You can get it for your Kindle for a little over $2 and used paperback for about the same.
Amazon.com: The Fair Tax Book: Saying Goodbye to the Income Tax and the IRS (9780060875497): Neal Boortz, John Linder: Books
Its sister book answers the questions raised by the first book(read critics).
Amazon.com: FairTax: The Truth: Answering the Critics: Neal Boortz, John Linder, Rob Woodall: Books
The second is the plan touted by the only business man running for president, Herman Cain.
About Herman Cain | Herman Cain for President
I will leave it for you to look him up and read about him and the 9-9-9 plan. After you have read it then we will discuss it.
Herman Cain promotes economic plan | The Post and Courier, Charleston SC - News, Sports, Entertainment

On a side note, the tax system we enjoy,,,,,,, is an instrument held over the head of the taxpayers to be used for political purposes. It is used to promote class warfare and to harbour those that can afford it. Remember it is written by bureaucrats. It is something like 1400 pages long with tons of exemptions and trade offs. All from people that can afford to get the loopholes. If the fair tax or flat tax were instituted, it would take the power out of the hands of the politicians, because it would take a super majority to amend it. It is something that won't be easy to get. But it can be done. How you ask? By someone who will lead the people to it. Once explained to people, they understand it. It is simple to understand. But it is also easy to demagog. And that is something libs(read opponents) do too well.
Don't get me wrong. I am not a conservative or a liberal, just a human being, an American, interested in the preservation of the greatest country to ever exist. One who thinks the current president doesn't have a clue as to what needs to be done, or how to get it done.

Bill

I really don't understand why the Fair Tax isn't talked about more, it has a lot going for it. I can see why big government would'nt go for it, it reduces government. Good thread Bill!

 

[domtoni]

Just a quick comment. For those of us who don't live in the USA but when we travel to the USA, we buy lots of stuff because the items we purchase are usually much cheaper than they are in our part of the world.

I presume that means that everyone will have to pay the same "fair" tax on whatever they buy whether they are residents or not.

I actually like the flat tax as proposed by Forbes.

 

[Graham]

Isn't it where one gets in line with a paper plate and napkin to collect finger food of a sort? :uneasy:

 

[Mark]

Isn't it where one gets in line with a paper plate and napkin to collect finger food of a sort? :uneasy:

You beat me to that one Graham. I was about to ask for the Thread Titled to be changed to stop me thinking of Party Food everytime I log in! :furious:

 

[Grady]

I've like the 'Fair Tax' ideal for about the past 6 or 7 years. Everyone pays including the 48%-50% who currently pay nothing, but receive all the benefits. I'll gladly pay 21%. Sadly most of the citizens do not know what their 'total' tax slice is, much less who their Senators and Congress members are from their home state. In short, I'm tired of supporting their poor work habits and lifestyle choices.

Mr WB doesn't say what his Federal income tax bracket was when he first paid taxes on the money he invested that earned the profits he now pays 15% on for his long term investments.

The whole argument is more kool-aid for those who don't have a basic understanding of the US tax code and use the short form when and if they do file taxes. Don't get me wrong, I wish each citizen had the need to use an accountant, pay quarterly to the US Treasury, and their filing was 117 pages long. No, this WB tax proposal is another grasp at straws for a group at the end of (his) rope and out of ideals. Not creative, but very divisive.:thumbsdown:

 

[Bob Fechter]

Like every other liberal its "do as I say, not as I do."

http://netrightdaily.com/2011/08/warren-buffett’s-taxing-hypocrisy/

 

[Chris P.]

Like every other liberal its "do as I say, not as I do."

http://netrightdaily.com/2011/08/warren-buffett’s-taxing-hypocrisy/

Quit whining, please. Why do you have to label liberals as having that mentality when conservatives do it too? It's a human trait, not a liberal one. Once again, YOU (and others like you) are the reason why there is a divide in this country. Pay attention.

 

[Bob Fechter]

Quit whining, please. Why do you have to label liberals as having that mentality when conservatives do it too? It's a human trait, not a liberal one. Once again, YOU (and others like you) are the reason why there is a divide in this country. Pay attention.

Try to focus. Higher taxes are a Liberal agenda. Warren Buffett is a Liberal who doesn't want to pay the legal taxes of the country he's made so much money in, even at the rate they are now. He does want other people, who don't have his resources to fight these confiscatory rates, to pay up.

If you want to whine about some Conservative issue that has a double standard go ahead, but this one is owned by Liberals. Higher taxes are a concern for everyone, left or right. I hope you're chipper enough to get that. We can always hope.

 

[Jeff Young]

What if Berkshire Hathaway is right and they don't owe the tax or the adjustments proposed by teh IRS are wrong? Are you saying that they should be denied the right to challenge an improper tax assessment by the IRS?

BH doesn't technically "owe" the tax until a final determination is made so this is a bit premature by our friend Bob.

 

[Bob Fechter]

What if Berkshire Hathaway is right and they don't owe the tax or the adjustments proposed by teh IRS are wrong? Are you saying that they should be denied the right to challenge an improper tax assessment by the IRS?

BH doesn't technically "owe" the tax until a final determination is made so this is a bit premature by our friend Bob.

And here is where Liberals always balk. If he's so intent on paying more taxes, he should be overjoyed to pay, not fight a decade over it.

 

[Jeff Young]

What?

Why would anyone be "overjoyed" at paying taxes they did not owe?

Repeat: are you saying that "liberals" should be denied the right to challenge an improper tax assessment? Because of their political persuasion?

 

[Bob Fechter]

What?

Why would anyone be "overjoyed" at paying taxes they did not owe?

Repeat: are you saying that "liberals" should be denied the right to challenge an improper tax assessment? Because of their political persuasion?

If no one is overjoyed with paying more taxes, maybe there is a common thread here. Its "We the people," and we're all paying too many taxes (those who don't pay taxes are being punished by the deflation of the dollar because of the printing presses). The government, on the other hand, is spending more than ever and its not being accounted for.

Don't be an oaf, Jeffry, everyone has the right to challenge an improper tax assessment. 99.99% of us can't afford to drag it out a decade.

The whole point is that this man is playing the system with all the advantages billions of dollars affords him. FINE. But, don't go pushing a tax hike on the rest of us.

Unfortunately, he can afford to have it both ways.

 

[domtoni]

Catch this one from Bloomberg and the extortionate monies paid for snacks. Who is looking after their budgets? Has any of them ever heard of Zero Based Budgeting?

‘Extravagant’ Spending, $16 Muffins Found at Justice Department Meetings - Bloomberg

Not sure if this is the right place for this one, but it is funny !!

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/ct-met-kass-0918-20110918,0,3951633.column?page=1

 

[Bob Fechter]

Catch this one from Bloomberg and the extortionate monies paid for snacks. Who is looking after their budgets? Has any of them ever heard of Zero Based Budgeting?

‘Extravagant’ Spending, $16 Muffins Found at Justice Department Meetings - Bloomberg

Not sure if this is the right place for this one, but it is funny !!

Barack Obama's Solyndra scandal smells like it came from Chicago's City Hall - chicagotribune.com

Exactly, and let's not forget the $640 toilet seat. and Al Gore's "reinventing government";

Gore brings back $640 toilet seat

As far as the "green economy" goes, anything that needs massive government subsidies is not ready for market. And, when you want to compete with China, we don't have the money to out subsidize them.

 

[Chris P.]

Try to focus. Higher taxes are a Liberal agenda. Warren Buffett is a Liberal who doesn't want to pay the legal taxes of the country he's made so much money in, even at the rate they are now. He does want other people, who don't have his resources to fight these confiscatory rates, to pay up.

If you want to whine about some Conservative issue that has a double standard go ahead, but this one is owned by Liberals. Higher taxes are a concern for everyone, left or right. I hope you're chipper enough to get that. We can always hope.

Bob - the one thing your great at is being absolutely clueless to what people are talking about. You have one specific thought so high on your mind's priority list that nothing else is even on your radar. I'll say this again since it's YOU who can't seem to focus: "Why do you have to label liberals as having that mentality when conservatives do it too?" This was in regards to your comment "Like every other liberal its 'do as I say, not as I do.'" I wasn't talking about taxes, I was talking about your chronic political bias problem.

I'll give a very important conservative example. Watch this clip from a 2000 presidential debate: The George Bush You Forgot - YouTube

In case you haven't put 2 and 2 together (or did and got 5), that right there is about the most prominent and important "do as I say, not as I do" example in recent history. It got thousands killed. It's still killing. It's going to kill more. It's creating more terrorists. (I won't even won't get into the idiotic 'flip-flop' chants from the right during the next election cycle... explain the rational basis for THAT after seeing this video...)

So, what in everything you've typed thus far is your purpose here? You act as if you've got the common good in mind, but every time you say something it's sole purpose is to degrade anyone who doesn't agree with you. That only works when you're actually right, Bob.

 

[Bob Fechter]

Bob - the one thing your great at is being absolutely clueless to what people are talking about. You have one specific thought so high on your mind's priority list that nothing else is even on your radar. I'll say this again since it's YOU who can't seem to focus: "Why do you have to label liberals as having that mentality when conservatives do it too?" This was in regards to your comment "Like every other liberal its 'do as I say, not as I do.'" I wasn't talking about taxes, I was talking about your chronic political bias problem.

I'll give a very important conservative example. Watch this clip from a 2000 presidential debate: The George Bush You Forgot - YouTube

In case you haven't put 2 and 2 together (or did and got 5), that right there is about the most prominent and important "do as I say, not as I do" example in recent history. It got thousands killed. It's still killing. It's going to kill more. It's creating more terrorists. (I won't even won't get into the idiotic 'flip-flop' chants from the right during the next election cycle... explain the rational basis for THAT after seeing this video...)

So, what in everything you've typed thus far is your purpose here? You act as if you've got the common good in mind, but every time you say something it's sole purpose is to degrade anyone who doesn't agree with you. That only works when you're actually right, Bob.

funny how you swerve to a clip of Govornor Bush in a discussion on Liberal Taxation. Drift away, friend.

I'm here because too many liberal statements are made and left unchallenged. I have learned an enormous amount about mid engined Ford powered cars here and I love this place. Liberalism has gotten such a toe hold in America that the practitioners of it get offended at any one with the temerity to espouse the other side.

 

[Chris P.]

funny how you swerve to a clip of Govornor Bush in a discussion on Liberal Taxation. Drift away, friend

Not a drift at all, an example. You choose to avoid it because you see the fallacy in your argument. Who brought up the $640 toilet seat? Do you see the trend here yet Bob?

Liberalism has gotten such a toe hold in America that the practitioners of it get offended at any one with the temerity to espouse the other side.

Woah, what a bold statement. And you accuse the left of not providing examples. I have, although I was accused of thread drift, now it's your turn...