Tucson

Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 72, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
Doug
What I was said about what Palin said was meant as , her style as a gun toting patriot is to say what she said . And not to say it the way I suggested it could have been said . So your call of BS has no grounds !
Al , and Doug ,
What Palin said , I didn't take the way you did , so it does not bother me .
And it warms me that your happy with Obama...but I still , no matter how many promises they keep , inherently do not trust any politician , or lawyer , or used car salesman . Hell , I don't even trust me , especially around fresh baked cookies my wife just pulled from the oven ! She told me not to touch them but I can't help it .

Frank, the issue isn't how you took Palin's comments, as well as the crosshairs on the map marking districts to be "targeted"....the issue for me, having seen how my impressionable "ex-friend" was changed almost overnight by inflamatory rhetoric, is how those who are subject to being led to violence with little critical thought regarding the advisability of such action might have responded to Palin's comments and website content. This guy in Tucson was just one of that "lunatic fringe". It only takes one, as we have seen in Tucson, and believe me they are out there everywhere! As such, it seems to me that it is incumbent upon the politicians to reign in the rhetoric, both verbal and visual, in order to avoid being "responsible" (a word I used reluctantly here) for inciting another to violence. I had no concerns that you might take those actions...to a person those of us who have discussed this and other politically related issues on the Paddock seem to be level headed enough to avoid taking those irreversible steps, regardless of the rancor with which some of us address those with views that don't agree with our own. My issue is that I don't see the rhetoric being so inflamatory on the liberal side, it's only on the radical conservative side. The liberals seem to be wringing their hands over the goings on, the radical conservatives seem to be using their actions to bring about their agenda in whatever manner they can, whether it is "responsible" or not.......IMHO. It's like screaming "FIRE" in a crowded theater.....regardless of whether or not one is an alarmist, it is not a responsible act. We (and in that universal term I definitely include Palin) should all be held responsible for the inflamatory rhetoric we choose to use, and particularly when that language incites others into deadly acts such as this nut-job in Tucson. Would he have done so without being so heavily influenced by the tactics of Palin????? Who knows, he's not saying anything at all.

.....and, yep, we ought to all take a good look at our politicians and what they say as candidates. I actually believe each of the parties should appoint someone to keep track of campaign promises, and in the next election campaign there should be a tally of the percentages of promises actually met. It could be good for someone like Bee-OH (ya gotta say it like a foghorn sounds, like the old deodorant commercials on TV where body odor was referred to as "B-O"), who has actually impressed me with his willingness to carry through on his promises (if not with the content of some of the ways in which he approached those promises.....). IMHO Palin is a political liability for the GOP and the TEA partiers, which are a well-documented right wing part of the GOP, would be wise to drop Palin from the list of their heroes.

Car salesmen....yeah, I know about them and their lies, lawyers are even worse (well, I must admit I do know a few honorable lawyers, but they are the exception in my eyes rather than the rule).

Good thing I wasn't there when the homemade cookies appeared....I'd have lied about the dog having gotten out and would have eaten the entire plate before she could have found out I lied!

.....and the beer, that's another issue altogether :thumbsup: !

Cheers from Doug
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
Doug,

It's a real shame about your friend. Such a sudden personality shift is often hard to understand. I had a similar kind of thing happen with my long time childhood friend, he found "Religion".

Not that religion per say is a problem, but this type precluded much interaction. It's hard to loose a good friend like that, but there is often nothing to be done.
 
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Al,

I take it from your lack of answer, that you are OK with politicians using this type of gun rhetoric.

Jim, You are doing exactly what I said. Jesse Davis said he was having a day at the shooting range where people could shoot a full auto M16 for a donation that would be used for his campaign. He cancelled this event. After the Giffords shooting this got adjusted to "shooting Giffords with a full auto M16." This thread was started to make people aware of a sad day in Tucson, Az. You insist on making political hay from it with distorted truths. :(
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
One thing no one has noted, is that it looks to me that each election that we have talked about here, the tea party, Palin, gun talk folks all lost!

So maybe big picture this type of talk is good................Not!

Al, you just keep defending this crap, the left is depending on you.
 
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Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
Ok, we get it, you have chosen not to be an American. I got it now.

See, Americans respect the results of elections, and the leaders that we have collectively chosen. I didn't agree with President Bush on a lot of things (on some I did, not many but some), but I acknowledged he was my President and as an American I owed him a duty of loyalty and respect. A lot of folks on the left didn't, and they were wrong.

We now know where you stand. Thanks for clearing that up.

I will show respect for those I respect. Respect is earned not given.
Order your children please, refrain from ordering me!
 
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Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
Al you are the only one here to say "shoot Giffords with a fully..........".

Only you!

Al let's try and stick to things that are true.
 
I will show respect for those I respect. Respect is earned not given.
Order your children please, refrain from ordering me!

Al,

I don’t want to sound sanctimonious but like many in the UK, my parents and school teachers, bought me up to respect and have tolerance for others even if I did not agree with their views or beliefs. My wife spends her time teaching 7 year olds the need for tolerance and respect for others and their property, and it is becoming an increasing more difficult job.

The most heinous crime any human can commit is to take the life of another whoever they are, especially more appalling when it is done because you do not like the rhetoric, race, creed sexual orientation, religion, beliefs et al, of your victim.

I believe that if Jared Lounghner had respect for Gabrielle Giffords and those around her even if he felt they had not earned it, he would have found murder and attempted murder inconceivable.
 
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Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 72, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
See, Americans respect the results of elections, and the leaders that we have collectively chosen. I didn't agree with President Bush on a lot of things....

+1, Jeff!

While Bush was not MY choice for president in either of the elections he won, by virtue of his victories he WAS my president, for better or worse (and IMHO it was MUCH worse!). Such is the manner in which we democratic countries choose to operate. I did not feel it appropriate to incite anyone else to violence with inflamatory rhetoric, nor did I feel it appropriate to attempt to change our leadership on my own with violent tactics. I just "hunkered down" and weathered the storm, all 8 years of it, in place. What a shame the radical right doesn't feel they are expected to do the same.....:thumbsdown:

Cheers from Doug!!
 
Quote from YerDugliness
My issue is that I don't see the rhetoric being so inflamatory on the liberal side, it's only on the radical conservative side. The liberals seem to be wringing their hands over the goings on, the radical conservatives seem to be using their actions to bring about their agenda in whatever manner they can, whether it is "responsible" or not.......IMHO.

To say this only comes from the right is BS. How soon we forget.
Michelle Malkin » Crush the Obamedia narrative: Look who’s “gripped by insane rage”

Could you imagine the outrage if a movie about assassinating BO were made.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_a_President_(2006_film)

I agree that the inflammatory rhetoric has to stop but to blame Palin for what this idiot did is bull.
Why are we not questioning the Pima County Sheriff’s Department & Clarence Dupnik for letting Loughner slip through the cracks and purchase a gun when they had known about him for some time.
Arizona sheriff releases Jared Loughner reports | The Daily Caller - Breaking News, Opinion, Research, and Entertainment

Veek , I think you have it right when you said ( he appears to be just as capable of receiving shoot-to-kill orders from a bowl of Rice Crispies than any website.)
 
Al,

I don’t want to sound sanctimonious but like many in the UK, my parents and school teachers, bought me up to respect and have tolerance for others even if I did not agree with their views or beliefs. My wife spends her time teaching 7 year olds the need for tolerance and respect for others and their property, and it is becoming an increasing more difficult job.

The most heinous crime any human can commit is to take the life of another whoever they are, especially more appalling when it is done because you do not like the rhetoric, race, creed sexual orientation, religion, beliefs et al, of your victim.

I believe that if Jared Lounghner had respect for Gabrielle Giffords and those around her even if he felt they had not earned it, he would have found murder and attempted murder inconceivable.

How did you jump from showing respect to committing murder? I have always shown respect for those that have earned my respect, BO has done nothing to earn my respect. No place is it written "Thou shalt respect the President". I don't hate him, I just don't respect him. :)
 
How did you jump from showing respect to committing murder? I have always shown respect for those that have earned my respect, BO has done nothing to earn my respect. No place is it written "Thou shalt respect the President". I don't hate him, I just don't respect him. :)

Al,

This was my main point.


Al,

I believe that if Jared Lounghner had respect for Gabrielle Giffords and those around her even if he felt they had not earned it, he would have found murder and attempted murder inconceivable.
 

Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
Yes, and where I was going in a more round about way. If you don't respect folks, or have some modicum of faith in our electoral process, then it is a lot easier to do what Lounghner did: check out of society, choose not to be an American, and open fire.

You said it clearer than me Nick. Thanks.

Jeff
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
I did note that from day one, the night of the Presidential election, people were already angry, President Obama would not take office for several months.

Yet I remember the Texas Governer talking about succession, several people calling for impeachment, WTF? The Limbough,s and Hannadys of the world prayed for his failure, good Americans?

I remember BushII, when he was elected the first time, I was not happy but he was "MY" President and I hoped for the best. I did not see that with Obama.
 
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Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 72, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
To say this only comes from the right is BS. How soon we forget.
I agree that the inflammatory rhetoric has to stop but to blame Palin for what this idiot did is bull.

I don't see any of the news networks being so blatantly prejudiced FOR Bee-OH as the Fox "News" Network is prejudiced AGAINST Bee-OH!

As for blaming Palin, I must agree that she is not the only source of the rhetoric, perhaps just the only one that was so obtuse that she does not recognize how inflamatory that sort of rhetoric is. The entire radical right wing seems to buy into the "Get rid of Bee-OH any way possible" rhetoric....and IMHO for those who are so easily influenced by inflamatory rhetoric, it only takes ONE source to "make sense" to someone who wants to take the issue into their own hands.

Loughner was a whacko.....in his case he was already incensed at the political position represented by Representative Giffords, all he needed was for someone to shout "Fire" and he did.....killing 6 people. Does anyone know of any reports of him getting that idea from left wing sources?????

The political spectrum seems to me to be quite circular, not linear. There is so little difference between the radical right wing and the radical left wing as to make them practically indistinguishable. It just amazes me, though, that with the two radical elements being so similar, that there don't seem to be many radical left wing agitators, but there seems to be a radical right wing pundit spouting their rhetoric on every street corner.

Oh, yeah, with the economic atmosphere promoted by the previous conservative administration, I guess there ARE radical left wing members on the street corners, they are just holding signs begging for food money. Hard to think of overthrowing a government as powerful as is the U.S. government when you don't have any food in your stomach.

Is that you, Simon????

Cheers from Doug!!
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
Doug,

I'm afraid that most of these folks only watch right wing/Fox news, TheY must think that all news spews this hate. I will not watch Fox, we all know they lie. Quite frankly the news shows I watch do not show inflamoyory rhetoric from the left. Only from the right. Perhaps if you turn off Fox and watch real news you would see that.
 
Yes, and where I was going in a more round about way. If you don't respect folks, or have some modicum of faith in our electoral process, then it is a lot easier to do what Lounghner did: check out of society, choose not to be an American, and open fire.

You said it clearer than me Nick. Thanks.

Jeff

I would say that GWB wasn't your President either, he was the elected President but not who you wanted to be President. BO is President, I accept that, but I don't have to like it. Open fire? You say some things that make me wonder about your education and your major in Pompous ass 101.
 

Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
Ok, we've got you accepting who the President is....progress!

Next step in your recovery of your citizenship.

You respect the office of the President even if the candidate you don't like won. Can you repeat after me on that one?
 
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