What to look for in a salvaged 302

[Neil]

Randy, If I were you I would leave the crate motor alone- just check the timing and install it-- that is, if it is strictly for a street application. A reputable supplier, especially FOMOCO, will assemble the engine to factory specs which will be just fine on the street. Disassembling a crate motor will almost certainly void your warranty.
As Howard said, a track or competition application is quite different. Crate engine parts will almost certainly not be up to the task and a factory block may not be either. A good, balanced forged steel crankshaft will serve as the basis of a reliable, high-output engine. Excellent quality steel rods will be another important component, as well as forged pistons of the proper type for your heads. A choice of high quality crank & rod bearings , such as King or Clevite, will withstand sustained high RPM use. Cylinder heads are available in a bewildering variety, fewer with a Ford than a small-block Chevy, but nevertheless you need to consult an experienced engine builder for his recommendations,
Next, the choice of valve gear is critical. High RPM & high lift put very high stresses on a valve train, from the cam to the pushrods to the rocker arms, to the valves & valve springs. The whole valve train must be able to withstand high loads for a lengthy period of time. There is a limit to what a stud rocker system can withstand compared to a shaft rocker system such as Jessel or K & B. Of course the cam must be chosen with your car's weight, gearing, and application in mind. You will almost certainly need a mechanical roller cam with an appropriate grind. Crower or Comp Cams can give you good advice in this area. I haven't mentioned other things such as clearances, the oiling system, and the type of intake manifold, & headers, These are pretty much a given. Think carefully about whether you want to build a race engine- it is a painstaking and expensive proposition. A crate engine is so much more practical Regards, Neil

 

[Ryan L]

I have been enjoying watching this series of videos on the Stapelton42 channel, where they take one of Lake Speeds old C3 Headed Windsors from 99/00 and apply 2020s tech to it.

This is the one for the cam shaft.

Honing the block

Rods and Pistons

There are a few more videos in the series if you are interested.

 

[Randy Folsom]

I bought a 1998 out of an Explorer. GT40P heads (they turned out cracked un repairable) but for $400 plus shipping and they gave me back $200 for the heads. My build still was $10k with AFR heads. Small Essex flywheel was a part of that. Good thing is modern fuel injected motor was still standard bore and round!!!

I am setting 7K as my upper limit to force myself to do my homework. Otherwise I can easily see spending a bunch of money on parts that end up deeply discounted on eBay.

 

[Randy Folsom]

Randy, If I were you I would leave the crate motor alone- just check the timing and install it-- that is, if it is strictly for a street application. A reputable supplier, especially FOMOCO, will assemble the engine to factory specs which will be just fine on the street. Disassembling a crate motor will almost certainly void your warranty.
As Howard said, a track or competition application is quite different. Crate engine parts will almost certainly not be up to the task and a factory block may not be either. A good, balanced forged steel crankshaft will serve as the basis of a reliable, high-output engine. Excellent quality steel rods will be another important component, as well as forged pistons of the proper type for your heads. A choice of high quality crank & rod bearings , such as King or Clevite, will withstand sustained high RPM use. Cylinder heads are available in a bewildering variety, fewer with a Ford than a small-block Chevy, but nevertheless you need to consult an experienced engine builder for his recommendations,
Next, the choice of valve gear is critical. High RPM & high lift put very high stresses on a valve train, from the cam to the pushrods to the rocker arms, to the valves & valve springs. The whole valve train must be able to withstand high loads for a lengthy period of time. There is a limit to what a stud rocker system can withstand compared to a shaft rocker system such as Jessel or K & B. Of course the cam must be chosen with your car's weight, gearing, and application in mind. You will almost certainly need a mechanical roller cam with an appropriate grind. Crower or Comp Cams can give you good advice in this area. I haven't mentioned other things such as clearances, the oiling system, and the type of intake manifold, & headers, These are pretty much a given. Think carefully about whether you want to build a race engine- it is a painstaking and expensive proposition. A crate engine is so much more practical Regards, Neil

View attachment 127750

Thx for all that food for thought. Your engine looks awesome. I am considering an occasion track day, but don’t anticipate any racing for this project.

 

[Ryan L]

I really like the idea of the large rollers on the cam followers that allow the valves to be opened at an aggressive rate.
Then adjust you EOE, Overlap and ICE to suite the desired user characteristics.

Ie delay the EOE and reduce the overlap for a street engine, as I think this would be necessary to limit the misfire at low RPM and allow for better control of emissions.
Adjust the ICE to suit max revs of the engine, this will obviously be subject to the selection of engine components.

EOE = Exhaust opening event = Angle before TDC where exhaust opens
overlap = time period where both intake and exhaust valves are open.
ICE = Intake Closing event = Angle after TDC where intake closes.

(See end of the cam video linked above)

 

[Davidmgbv8]

I followed the Richard Holdener formula

 

[Paul Hendrickx]

I really like the idea of the large rollers on the cam followers that allow the valves to be opened at an aggressive rate.
Then adjust you EOE, Overlap and ICE to suite the desired user characteristics.

Ie delay the EOE and reduce the overlap for a street engine, as I think this would be necessary to limit the misfire at low RPM and allow for better control of emissions.
Adjust the ICE to suit max revs of the engine, this will obviously be subject to the selection of engine components.

EOE = Exhaust opening event = Angle before TDC where exhaust opens
overlap = time period where both intake and exhaust valves are open.
ICE = Intake Closing event = Angle after TDC where intake closes.

(See end of the cam video linked above)

Hi, i don't know if my vocabulary is good enough to make a good explication...
do first a observation on intake manifolds..... when you had a carbureted version you had short intake manifold and carburetor close to cylinder head, and yes you needed exhaust overlap to pull in fresh gas from the carburetor. the bigger the overlap , the narrower became the power band of the engine. (and you had a lot of unburned gas going in to nature due to the overlap)
here in 1992 Europe the banned carburetors , and injection found its way .... and long , very long intake manifolds where used , on some engines between the throttle and intake valve you could get a distance up to 105 cm!
At the same time the camshaft was completely redesigned and no overlap between exhaust and intake
on some engines exhaust closes 5° before tdc and intake opens 5°after tdc, this done to avoid unburnt gas go in to the catalyzer , which would be destroyed.
this created long collums of gas which drop by their weight in to the cylinder. engines are build with long stroke to improve torque.
now 25 years later we still use this type off valve timing , but made more efficient with variable timing on the (most of the time the 2 camshafts)

to come back on our V8 sbf.... it is the intake manifold type who decided which camshaft is optimum, and in the end the desire of the driver
but it is and it will be always a bag of compromise ... when building an engine
Paul

 

[Randy Folsom]

I really like the idea of the large rollers on the cam followers that allow the valves to be opened at an aggressive rate.
Then adjust you EOE, Overlap and ICE to suite the desired user characteristics.

Ie delay the EOE and reduce the overlap for a street engine, as I think this would be necessary to limit the misfire at low RPM and allow for better control of emissions.
Adjust the ICE to suit max revs of the engine, this will obviously be subject to the selection of engine components.

EOE = Exhaust opening event = Angle before TDC where exhaust opens
overlap = time period where both intake and exhaust valves are open.
ICE = Intake Closing event = Angle after TDC where intake closes.

(See end of the cam video linked above)

I have been looking at West Coast Engines’ Balboa 347. The cam is a Trick Flow Track Max Hydraulic Roller (TFS-51403002) with a duration @ .050”, lift: 224 int/232 exh and lobe separation of 112.

 

[Brian]

If it's not a Ford Racing or Blueprint or something from summit, I would suggest a place close enough that you can drive by their shop and choke them out if they don't deliver.

If I didn't want a unicorn engine, I would have bought another long block from Summit or Jeggs. I needed low compression and extra ring gap and tougher internals than you would expect for the compression ratio for turbos. If it's a pump gas naturally aspirated engine, they've done the homework with parts matching for the power level advertised without wasting too much money on things not needed.

 

[Randy V]

Why so enamored with the 347 Variant of the 302?

 

[Randy Folsom]

If it's not a Ford Racing or Blueprint or something from summit, I would suggest a place close enough that you can drive by their shop and choke them out if they don't deliver.

If I didn't want a unicorn engine, I would have bought another long block from Summit or Jeggs. I needed low compression and extra ring gap and tougher internals than you would expect for the compression ratio for turbos. If it's a pump gas naturally aspirated engine, they've done the homework with parts matching for the power level advertised without wasting too much money on things not needed.

Good advice. Thx much.

 

[Neil]

I am setting 7K as my upper limit to force myself to do my homework. Otherwise I can easily see spending a bunch of money on parts that end up deeply discounted on eBay.

RPM or $ ?

 

[Randy Folsom]

RPM or $ ?

I meant dollars, but a 7K redline makes sense as well.

 

[Jac Mac]

Why so enamored with the 347 Variant of the 302?

Seems to be a lot of people who have to do things wrong in order to learn how to do it right.

 

[Ian Anderson]

Seems to be a lot of people who have to do things wrong in order to learn how to do it right.

Read up on what Jac has posted in the past. His big question was pin / con rod angle with the stroker engines. From memory a 330 was his recommendation.

Ian

 

[Randy Folsom]

Seems to be a lot of people who have to do things wrong in order to learn how to do it right.

Because “Stroker” Actually, this is my logic based on my limited knowledge.
1) More Cubic Inches is more HP. Assuming 1.2 HP per CI, that works out to about 50 HP
2) Could just go with a 351 for more CIs, but the 302 deck height is lower so the motor is lower profile.
3) Because the rod ratio is shorter, RPM power band is lower. Not great for racing, but awesome for the street. Just the opposite for a 363.
4) The stroke and bore are still quite reliable since the piston skirt stays more in the cylinder.
Please let me know if my logic is faulty.

 

[Jac Mac]

Because “Stroker” Actually, this is my logic based on my limited knowledge.
1) More Cubic Inches is more HP. Assuming 1.2 HP per CI, that works out to about 50 HP
2) Could just go with a 351 for more CIs, but the 302 deck height is lower so the motor is lower profile.
3) Because the rod ratio is shorter, RPM power band is lower. Not great for racing, but awesome for the street. Just the opposite for a 363.
4) The stroke and bore are still quite reliable since the piston skirt stays more in the cylinder.
Please let me know if my logic is faulty.

You raise 'some' valid points but not all of them, I'll reply later, just on 8am here 'down under'.

 

[Ryan L]

3) Because the rod ratio is shorter, RPM power band is lower. Not great for racing, but awesome for the street. Just the opposite for a 363.

just been listening to a youtube video where this was discussed at length. Longer rod results in less cylinder side thrust, which decreases the piston ring drag and power loss in this area. So total power would go up marginally. This argument was countered by the fact that shorter rods seem to hit harder and accelerate quicker.

(95) The great rod debate - with Uncle Tony - YouTube

I don't have enough knowledge in this area to know if one is better than the other.
I suspect Jac will be back with more information on this.

 

[Neil]

just been listening to a youtube video where this was discussed at length. Longer rod results in less cylinder side thrust, which decreases the piston ring drag and power loss in this area. So total power would go up marginally. This argument was countered by the fact that shorter rods seem to hit harder and accelerate quicker.

(95) The great rod debate - with Uncle Tony - YouTube

I don't have enough knowledge in this area to know if one is better than the other.
I suspect Jac will be back with more information on this.

HRM did dyno tests of this a few years ago and the result was that the bore/stroke ratio made only a marginal difference in BHP.

 

[Randy Folsom]

just been listening to a youtube video where this was discussed at length. Longer rod results in less cylinder side thrust, which decreases the piston ring drag and power loss in this area. So total power would go up marginally. This argument was countered by the fact that shorter rods seem to hit harder and accelerate quicker.

(95) The great rod debate - with Uncle Tony - YouTube

I don't have enough knowledge in this area to know if one is better than the other.
I suspect Jac will be back with more information on this.

I found this article that compares a 306 and a 347. Seems the combination of stroke and rod length is what determines the power band. https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/mmfp-1009-306-small-block-engine-vs-347-small-block-engine/