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Old 31st December 2014, 05:38 PM   #41
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re: Mitch Krause's RCR GT40 Build

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big-Foot View Post
Not being someone who can just look at it and tell if it is a good and even surface like a pro-bodyman may, I have to use my hands, close my eyes and rub my hand over the body gently in the powdery dust "feeling" for high or low spots. Feeling for consistency in the contours. If the line is already cut between the panels, it upsets the movement of my hand and I lose track of the contour..
Maybe I'm nuts, but it's the best way I have found to do this.
Not at all! In fact, this method works better than using other senses until I do a wet sand where the sheen reflects the straight-tube florescent shop lights (per Fred'a note) to show deviations of thousandths of an inch. Finding a perfect material for an idiot stick or sanding block is as much the art as is feeling the surface. 3M make some really good foam pads that come in a variety of stiffnesses, as well as some interesting stiff-foam longer sanding blocks that I've seen up to 18" long for those very slight curves used on our cars.

Here is a wet-sanded surface after rinse-off. The water stayed on it long enough to push it into the garage and review the work under the florescent tubes. They were very telling. This first photo looked pretty good.



This second photo (the other side of the rear panel) showed the flaw I felt with my hand, but couldn't see. Notice how I sanded through a couple of different shades of primer, yet the hump (sharp bend in the reflection of some PVC tubing hung at the ceiling) in the center of the photo, was still there indicating I still had some work to do.

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Last edited by blueovalz; 31st December 2014 at 06:30 PM.
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Old 31st December 2014, 06:48 PM   #42
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re: Mitch Krause's RCR GT40 Build

Wow! Are these problems with the body the norm or is this just a bad one? Seems like you should have been offered a replacement body
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Old 31st December 2014, 07:56 PM   #43
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re: Mitch Krause's RCR GT40 Build

IMHO I think the bodies are pretty hit and miss. I think it comes down to the guy who lays up and trims the panels out of the moulds and how the panels are stored before delivery and while they wait to be fitted by the Customer. Also the panel thickness varies between bodies as most are hand laid. So if you are lucky you get a nicely trimmed body that has not warped to much and goes together well. The other thing to look at is the skill of the installer, an experienced Body Guy may get a much better result than a First Timer, in saying that I feel build manuals could spend a lot more time on how to set up a body and maybe templates or jigs should be / could be supplied to help get the alignment right. I have found that you can chase your tail and a fault all the way through the body instal.

I am terrible at fibreglass and it's my most hated job. Look out for my up comming build thread RF2 #67 for a body nightmare.
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Old 31st December 2014, 09:00 PM   #44
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re: Mitch Krause's RCR GT40 Build

I am terrible at fibreglass and it's my most hated job. Look out for my up comming build thread RF2 #67 for a body nightmare.[/QUOTE]

Im with you dave ,its the worst stuff.

Nice work Randy.
I had a chat to a fiberglass guy who made some very nice cars and I asked him about gaping.
His method was use adhesive foam tape the thickness required is the gap you are chasing.
You lay it on the edge of the spider where the door closes against.
Use filler on the door and use the foam to fill against.
When it has dried you open the door and remove the tape,the edge of the door you clean up, I used this method when I had a glass body and it did work very well.

These bodies all move around, even my alloy body does it.
One day a gap will not be correct then tomorrow it looks OK again, Its part of the deal I think.

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Old 1st January 2015, 01:27 AM   #45
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re: Mitch Krause's RCR GT40 Build

Terry –
Thanks for the confirmation of my technique. Really good pictures you provided here that are quite telling!

Will –
As I point out at the outset all of these bodies, even on the originals, are one-offs and many did not fit together well at all. Look carefully at the pictures of the cars in competition or even road cars and they just aren’t up to today’s standards. Some are better than others, some worse. The body on this car is representative of the parts which the molds were taken from.

Dave –
You’ve hit all the nails square on the head. I pointed out in my original build log that it’s a rather large challenge to fit a non-symmetrical body on a perfectly symmetrical chassis.
I’m no bodyman, but by the time this job is done, I expect to have been schooled..

Jim –
I have a couple of seams left and may give that a try. The seams I have at the front clip to the doors are a bit wide. One of the challenges I am faced with is the rear clip mount not being as stable as I would like. That allows movement that screws everything up.



==Bottom Line on Fiberglass Bodywork==
Finding a body shop that will work on a fiberglass car will lead you on a very long search. Even the Corvette is unwelcome in most shops. Those shops that will work on glass charge a higher rate.
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Old 1st January 2015, 01:30 AM   #46
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re: Mitch Krause's RCR GT40 Build

December 31, 2014

Update on yesterday’s fiasco with the left door and the jammed latch –

I ended up having to pull the door hinge bolt to remove all tension from the latch. This is not giving me any warm and fuzzy feelings in regard to these Mini-Bear Claws.. Apparently if there is even the slightest amount of tension on these latches, they will not release. That would be a bad thing to happen if in any sort of accident which may put forces on the latches.

Roof-Ridge Update –

I was informed via email by a noted authority who viewed my build log that the originals did not have this ridge. I understand that the ridge was an agreed upon change with the first replica manufacturers.
After careful review of all my books as well as photos from the Racing Icons website, it has been confirmed. There are shadows and reflections that make it appear that there is a ridge in the spider that melds into the door at the top of the window, but they are optical illusions. I’m undecided at this point if I will blend the ridges in or not.
Here are some pictures of originals – with credit to Racing Icons






GAPs and more Dust!

Back to work –

No bones about it – setting the gaps here is a very long and tedious process. You can see from these pictures that there is a substantial amount of filler that has been deposited on the spider as well as the door and rear clip. Most of the filler on the door and clip will be removed – but that which needs to remain will need to be reinforced with the Kitty-hair Bondo for its strength.
At this point, I have only gapped the spider to the clip on the left side. The gap at this point is only 1/16”. This will be opened up to 1/8” eventually.









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Old 1st January 2015, 02:53 AM   #47
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re: Mitch Krause's RCR GT40 Build

Before everyone gets into a what is right or wrong perhaps you should read & save these threads for future reference...

GT40 kit for $17,500 in the USA

http://www.gt40s.com/forum/allgt40/3...-original.html

http://www.gt40s.com/forum/allgt40/9...gt40-body.html


OOP's transposed a couple of numbers-fixed now... interesting how on the second link posts #17 19 20 someone claims authentic original bodies, yet they have the replica ridge line, hmmmmn..

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Old 1st January 2015, 03:18 PM   #48
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re: Mitch Krause's RCR GT40 Build

All great context here of which I was not aware...

In regard to the body on my car - the ridge was for the most part non existent on the doors, the spider only faintly. The rear clip was pretty well defined.

I must say that the ridge is a nice addition, but I'm not going to spend the time it would take to get it as crisply defined as it is on the KVA pictured here
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Old 1st January 2015, 06:53 PM   #49
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re: Mitch Krause's RCR GT40 Build

RF have this ridge aswell but I prefer the smooth look which is more original looking. That ridge makes it harder to align the panels.
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Old 1st January 2015, 07:25 PM   #50
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re: Mitch Krause's RCR GT40 Build

Fellas, I have been out of town over the holidays so I am just playing catch up.

In reference to the "ridge" the RCR40 does not have any of he GTD/CAV/KVA ridges.
Reason being we pulled the moulds from an unrestored original car.

The peak on the tail of the RCR is the same as the original Mk1s, in fact if you get a close look under the rear window you will see the small quarter sized indent of the drain hole, not visible on any other replica kit sold that I am aware of....showing indeed that the tail is pulled from an original car. You can also tell from the shape of the front wheel wells its an original shape , opposed to the much larger opening on some of the replica bodies.

We have fitted a lot of Mk1 bodies with very minimal bodywork needed, in fact if you check out the RCR website gallery page 3 the red #33 car is just polished gelcoat and graphics applied.

http://race-car-replicas.com/rcr40_photo_album.html

The issue is that you cannot nail down one part and take that as your datum...the whole body needs to be fitted as one...this is well shown and documented in Toms posts ...if the bodyshop sets one part of the body and its off by even a small margin it effects the rest of the body fit very adversely.

Its a time and patience tester for sure...we are building a MK2 turn key minus at the shop currently and the MK2 body fit is no different....

One issue with GRP is storage , if the body is left laying around for a long time in an unsupported and incorrect shape it will take a set and create even more problems...

Step back and take a breath....these cars are race cars and as Randy has said each original car is very different...so if you want modern 1/8th body gaps be prepared to put in some time and effort...have a look at OEM cars from only a few years ago and 1/8 was not even feasible for them with millions of dollars of stamping tools...

Happy New Year guys.,..
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Old 3rd January 2015, 02:21 AM   #51
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re: Mitch Krause's RCR GT40 Build

Thanks for chiming in with some facts Fran...

I believe these pictures capture the drain hole you're speaking of..
Was there any sort of grommet or hose that ran up to this or was it just a hole?

Look in the lower right corner




More updates tomorrow..
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Old 3rd January 2015, 10:08 AM   #52
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re: Mitch Krause's RCR GT40 Build

I didnt know or notice the RCR body was different from the replicas. I like the original details in the RCR body....keep up the good work Randy.
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Old 3rd January 2015, 02:31 PM   #53
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re: Mitch Krause's RCR GT40 Build

With reference to the drain hole, I suspect that its positioned there for UK road camber and driving on left hand side, for USA and other countries that drive on RHS you might consider adding another drain to RH.
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Old 5th January 2015, 11:00 PM   #54
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re: Mitch Krause's RCR GT40 Build

Thanks guys... Jac - with my butt in the left side of the car, that hole will be on the low side even with a crown in the road... Need to get on my New Years diet!!
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Old 5th January 2015, 11:01 PM   #55
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re: Mitch Krause's RCR GT40 Build

January 1, 2015
Working the Rear Clamshell gap


I spent much of the day outside of the shop – but I did manage to get in a few hours this afternoon.
The gap of the clamshell to spider is not as straight forward as you would think. It just looks like a straight line, but it’s not. The clamshell edge is straight for roughly the width of the back window, but from there it cants forward a little over 1/4” as measured at the roof ridge (if you have one) else, that general area. Moving down from there, the line is actually bowed forward in the middle about 1/8” with a starting point at the roof ridge and ending just prior to where the body starts to raise for the side scoop. There was a lot of gap on my car, particularly on the left side since I wanted to get the rear clip to sit straight behind the spider rather than being turned clockwise as viewed from above. Remember that these cars were not created with the aid of computers – it was all mud, glass, tin and a prayer..
Some pictures of the left side rear clip / spider interface..





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Old 5th January 2015, 11:03 PM   #56
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re: Mitch Krause's RCR GT40 Build

January 2, 2015
Step on a spider and it….


Today I finished the 1/16” gap on the spider side by filling excessive gap, spots in the spider that got cut by the multitool, then carefully sanding the bondo and gel-coat..







The IBM Clip (I’ve Been Moved)
I have confirmed that the rear clip is not moving back into continually repeatable positions. In watching the action of the rear hinges and the support struts, they flex and move, but apparently don’t always move back to the same “home” position. I will be stepping up my plans for reinforcing this and will get the rear clip dialed back in.


This is the main reason I did not go immediately to the 1/8” gaps – I did not trust the body to stay put..

While I was hitting the spider, I nailed the roof ridge.. It’s all but gone now although I have a bit more finish sanding to do in that area and some blending on the rear clip.
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Old 5th January 2015, 11:05 PM   #57
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re: Mitch Krause's RCR GT40 Build

January 3, 2015
Swapping ends – Moving back to the front clip


I need to get the front clip located and latched solid in order to finalize the doors and get the gaps finished to both the spider as well as the front clip.
This takes me back a long long ways when I first got the car and when the front clip was lifted off the car, the right side “Foot” sprung inward a little more than 1”. I knew this was going to be a challenge then and it’s still the same. But to show you just how fickle Fiberglass can be, I had heated the front clip and pulled that foot back into position. It actually stayed where I left it for weeks, but over time, the foot went back to its original position. I’ll need some sort of guides to push the clip into the right position when it’s closed.





Before I jump off of that cliff, I need to do something with the latches. I did not care for the tin latches that were supplied, so I went on a search about 5 years ago to find the elusive Hartwell Latches. The search turned up nothing that could be used and those who had the replicas of said latches wanted a price that I could not live with. Another builder on the forum found these SARMA Aircraft latches. They were the right length and just a little narrow. I contacted the seller and he had 4 left but insisted on cash in advance. I rolled the dice and for less than half the price of the Hartwell clones, I had 4 very nice latches. Now to figure out how to mount them. The Hartwells mounted via bolts into the body of the latch and the catch side was held down with two screws into the chassis. The SARMA catches had a single threaded stud that would need to be threaded into the sill / chassis. After thinking about how to mount these guys for the last 5 years, I finally figured it out. I realized that all I really needed to do was to keep the latch from sliding out of the channels cut in the body. Don’t overthink it – I made a small angle bracket that traps the latch in the channels! Hey – sometimes I’m not very fast!

Originals;


SARMA Latch and mounting channel


SARMA Latch and retention bracket


SARMA Latch – mocked up in front clip


SARMA Latch – retained in the channel


Front Clip Foot Guides –
Raw materials salvaged from an old project


A little filing and drilling


In position


Mudding in the back side of the clip where the guide will rub on the clip foot to push into position (more pics of this later as it is finished)
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Last edited by Big-Foot; 11th January 2015 at 01:42 AM. Reason: Schpellink errirs
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Old 5th January 2015, 11:30 PM   #58
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re: Mitch Krause's RCR GT40 Build

Christmas Vacation time is over and I'm back to work for Corp America... I won't really have any shop time other than the weekends.. I'll do my best to keep my momentum up!
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Old 6th January 2015, 08:21 AM   #59
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re: Mitch Krause's RCR GT40 Build

Great effort Randy...fantastic progress. The tight gaps look fantastic.
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Old 6th January 2015, 10:30 AM   #60
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re: Mitch Krause's RCR GT40 Build

Thanks Dave... I will be opening the gaps up to 1/8" after I do something with the rear clip mounting system. I may build a whole new frame for the rear, or just reinforce what is there with the alloy pan. Just not sure how much effort I want to expend on that just yet.
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