What happened to three Mirages?

jyrki · 01-01-09, 04:26 PM

After reading some books:

- there was only three Mirages; M0001, M0002 and M0003, is that correct?
- they were with alu-monocoque?
- two of them converted to mk1 GT40? How? -> Keeping alu-mono`s and Mirage ID nr or how? -> is there original GT40 with alu-mono, at least two pcs?

Didn`t found answers with "search" -action. Or just can`t use it.
And the book where main answers are, is in looong loan

(never again..)

Thanks, again

jyrki

Rick Muck- Mark IV · 01-01-09, 07:29 PM

The Mirage monos were not alloy, they were steel although lighter somewhat. And yes, two of the Mirages woke up one morning as GT40s............

Mark Clapp · 01-01-09, 08:19 PM

Mirage M10001 is still a Mirage M1. The second was destroyed at the Nurburgring and M10003 was built into GT40P1074 during the winter of 1968/69. P1075 has the squared-off front chassis section like a Mirage, but was never built as one.

Chris Ardern · 01-01-09, 10:11 PM

This is an old picture of 1076 at Monterey in 1983 with one of the Mirages. I wonder what the story on this one was. Which one of the Mirages would this have been?

http://www.gtreproductions.com/Images/FORD_GT.jpg
http://www.gtreproductions.com/Images/GT40.jpg

Ian K · 01-02-09, 03:02 AM

According to Ronnie Spain's book and research, M10002 was rebuilt as 1074 and
M10003 was rebuilt as 1075. Ronnie's research has turned up evidence that
refutes the official documentation that M10003 was rebuilt as 1074 and 1075
was a "new" chassis.

Here are the relevant pages from an online excerpt from his book:

GT 40: An Individual History and ... - Google Book Search

Chris, based on the dates, that would have to be M10001, the only remaining Mirage.

Ian

Pantera1889 · 01-02-09, 10:31 AM

Here are a few pictures I took of M10001 at Pebble Beach in 2004.

Pat Buckley · 01-02-09, 12:34 PM

Last I heard, they were opening at the Sands....

(sorry, couldn't resist)

Mark Clapp · 01-02-09, 05:06 PM

Check out this site regarding P1075 originally being a Mirage: 1075

Chris Ardern · 01-02-09, 05:14 PM

Interesting. Now when did 1075 sit in the Indianapolis Museum? and where is it now. Did 1075 and 4 have original tubs before being rebuilt into Mirages. It's interesting that those pictures of 1076 in Ronnie's book were taken that weekend at Laguna.

Chris Ardern · 01-02-09, 08:44 PM

Never mind I just opened up Ronnies Spains book and answered all my questions. And more...I really never got a hold of the dual identities of M10002 AKA 1074 and M10003 AKA 1075 So as GT40s go 1076 was really a special car one of the Gulf cars and the only true GT40. The Mirages were really one off cars. Where were they built in JWA's shop?
Chris
Vintage GT Coupes

Chris Ardern · 01-02-09, 08:50 PM

Now I see you made a post 3 minutes before my last one Mark. That is really something. so 1075 was a Mirage Chassis but a new car. If 1075 was a brand new car, where's M10003?

Dave Collins · 01-03-09, 09:29 AM

If you look at John Horsman's book "racing in the rain" P118. He states that M1/10003 was coverted back to a GT40 center section and body shape as a time and money saving solution and renumbered GT40P/1074.

GT40P/1075 was a new chassis drawn from the origional FAV stock (now owned by JWAE) and was given the same modifications as had been done to improve the airflow out of the radiator. JH states that this "..was not an ex-Mirage chassis as had been claimed elsewhere."

M1/10002 was apperently written off at the Nurburgring 1000Km during practice by Dr. Dick Thompson.

Dave

HHH · 01-04-09, 06:35 AM

Of course 107,the '68 and '69 Le Mans winner is now in a important private collection in the US and being actively raced at times by its very competend owner.

HHH · 01-04-09, 06:36 AM

Of course it had to say s/n 1075....

jmvelez · 01-04-09, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by actvpwr

Interesting. Now when did 1075 sit in the Indianapolis Museum? and where is it now. Did 1075 and 4 have original tubs before being rebuilt into Mirages. It's interesting that those pictures of 1076 in Ronnie's book were taken that weekend at Laguna.

At your friendly Wal-mart store 1075 was owned by a Walton with several other toys (Daytona Coupe, Mustang Boss 302 TA, another GT40 etc.). 1075 was a new chassis enclosed is the built sheet

John Allen · 01-05-09, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DC-MXV

If you look at John Horsman's book "racing in the rain" P118. He states that M1/10003 was coverted back to a GT40 center section and body shape as a time and money saving solution and renumbered GT40P/1074.

GT40P/1075 was a new chassis drawn from the origional FAV stock (now owned by JWAE) and was given the same modifications as had been done to improve the airflow out of the radiator. JH states that this "..was not an ex-Mirage chassis as had been claimed elsewhere."

M1/10002 was apperently written off at the Nurburgring 1000Km during practice by Dr. Dick Thompson.

Dave

The fate of the three Mirages has long been a contentious issue. Ronnie Spain's opinion is in direct contradiction to that of John Horsman and the late John Wyer. In 2005 I spoke with John Horsman about this subject, and he was absolutely adamant that: Mirage 10001 still exists as a Mirage, M/10002 was written off, and M/10003 was rebuilt as GT40P/1074. He said that the tub used in 1075 was a brand new one, to Mirage spec, but NEVER used in a Mirage.

When Ronnie examined 1075 during its stay in the Indianapolis Hall of Fame, he found that on it were several parts which carried Mirage identification numbers, one in particularly clearly carrying the "10003" serial. It was this that first led him to suspect that what he was looking at was in fact Mirage 3 rebuilt as 1075, and that Mirage 2 must have been used in 1074.

I think everybody would agree that Ronnie is, unquestionably, the world's leading authority on GT40 history, and if he believes something about these cars then we have to give his views a great deal of credence. It's been a couple of years since I have spoken with him, and if I could find him I would really love to discuss this further! Alas, he doesn't reply to my emails, snail-mails, or telephone calls; I am told that he is under immense pressure from his publisher to complete the long-awaited update/extension of his definitive book. Once he's out from under working on that book I'll be standing in line for a chat!

John S Allen

jmvelez · 01-06-09, 09:25 PM

Maybe what he saw at Indy was 1074 (which is mirage 10003) painted in 1075. I was close to 1075 was at Lime Rock and who knows if it was 1075. the front glass was broken and was not in restored paint or clean. It was one of the 6 cars in the Wal-mart trailer. The GT40 reunion at Road America 1075 and other Gulf painted cars were there

Jon · 01-16-09, 06:20 AM

While I would very much respect the credentials of Ronnie Spain as a leading GT40 historian, I would find it hard to argue with the guys who actually built the cars (Horsman) and ran the team (Wyer).
You would have to come up with some very convincing evidence to say that these guys are wrong.
Horsman does say that 1075 was modified to incorporate some of the Mirage designs, and maybe some of the Mirage parts found their way onto 1075s chassis, but to then say 1075 was actually M/10003 would need alot more evidence.

Jean-Paul Reckinger · 01-16-09, 10:04 AM

Very interesting thread,
to stir things a little up, the Ford F3L or P68 model is in what relation to the Mirage's and GT40's

JP

allanfeldman · 03-01-09, 03:17 PM

When Ford pulled out of racing at the end of 1967 the P68 or Ford 3 litre was built as a successor to the GT40. The link must be Len Bailey who designed it for Ford. Alan Mann company was used for this project.
This car and the later modified P69 spyder were nothing to do with the GT40 or the Mirage. Len Bailey had though worked on the GT40 project.
I think the shape of the P68 was a follow on to Len Baileys Can Am design of the 1967 Honker?
Regards Allan