Liberals gone wild.

[Bob Fechter]

You prefer your "for profit" HMO deciding what kind of health care you receive?

Bob show me where the Constitution "vaguely hints" at what type of road you should have, what type of fire dept we should have?

For profit means you have to be efficient to survive the competition. Of course, the competition was eliminated in 1966.

Before Medicare you could pay for your doctor's visit out of pocket.

Roads, fire depts., etc. fall under States Rights, but of course if you need funds from the feds for your road, some bureaucrat in DC decides how that road will be designed.

 

[Graham]

In fact, most of my UK brothers (as I am an adopted UKer) have private health insurance so they don't have to go through the NHS.

Domtino, That is not true at all, The upper twenty percentile of earners and those fortunate to have a job that includes it have private healthcare if they can afford it. It is way too expensive for most people.

I have it, as does my wife, but it costs us £250 per month, and we are both in our fourties. My parents had to give it up, as being in their sixties, it was costing nearly £450 per month, and they could not afford it.

A public health service is still a wonderful thing.

 

[Jeff Young]

Lonesome Nutjob:

Medicare mostly applies to older folks, not everyone.

And you can still pay out of pocket for your heart transplant if you want. If you have $500,000 in cash or whatever. Or some chickens to trade like that woman running for Senate in Nevada famously said.

The average per capita "spend" on health care in the US is something like $4800. Next closest is Switzerland at $3200 and as I understand it, they have an insurance system something like Obamacare and not a national health service. Britain, France, Canada, all spend far less per person on health care.

So, here's an empirical fact. Despite spending 30-50% more per person on health care than other countries "like" us, we have lower life expectancy, are less fit, weigh more, have more kidney and heart disease, have higher infant mortality rates and have more folks with NO access to health care than any other modern developed country.

What's wrong with this picture?

For profit means you have to be efficient to survive the competition. Of course, the competition was eliminated in 1966.

Before Medicare you could pay for your doctor's visit out of pocket.

Roads, fire depts., etc. fall under States Rights, but of course if you need funds from the feds for your road, some bureaucrat in DC decides how that road will be designed.

 

[Bob Fechter]

Lonesome Nutjob:

Medicare mostly applies to older folks, not everyone.

And you can still pay out of pocket for your heart transplant if you want. If you have $500,000 in cash or whatever. Or some chickens to trade like that woman running for Senate in Nevada famously said.

The average per capita "spend" on health care in the US is something like $4800. Next closest is Switzerland at $3200 and as I understand it, they have an insurance system something like Obamacare and not a national health service. Britain, France, Canada, all spend far less per person on health care.

So, here's an empirical fact. Despite spending 30-50% more per person on health care than other countries "like" us, we have lower life expectancy, are less fit, weigh more, have more kidney and heart disease, have higher infant mortality rates and have more folks with NO access to health care than any other modern developed country.

What's wrong with this picture?

I mentioned Medicare because thats the beginning of government influence over health care costs.

What's the total tax rate compared to the US?

What does being overweight have to do with socialized medicine, or is there an enforced diet in these countries? Same for fitness.

Higher infant mortality? prove that, unless you are including abortion in that data.

Again kidney and heart disease, I believe, are life choice issues, and I'd rather have those diseases in America than wait in line in a socialist country.

Who doesn't have access to heath care in America, unless you mean the extended waits in ER's because they have to admit everyone including the uninsured illegal aliens?

 

[Jim Craik]

Jeff,

Did you catch the Republican debate in Florida......

Somone asked the question: There is a man in a coma brough to a Hospital, he does not have health insurance, what would you do?

The audiance, almost as one shouted "LET HIM DIE".

Compassionat Consevatism in action.

Bob what would you do?

 

[Bob Fechter]

Jeff,

Did you catch the Republican debate in Florida......

Somone asked the question: There is a man in a coma brough to a Hospital, he does not have health insurance, what would you do?

The audiance, almost as one shouted "LET HIM DIE".

Compassionat Consevatism in action.

Bob what would you do?

Jim, I would remind admissions that they are bound to accept that person due to The Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA), silly!

Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Jeff Young]

Let's just clear the air a bit.

In socialized systems, people have far greater access to real preventative care and counseling about diet, exercise, and overall wellness. That helps keep weigth down, fitness up, and heart and kidney disease away.

The Rush Limbaugh inspired myth that our ERs operate as publich health clinics is entirely bogus. They can't turn away people who need emergency treatment. But they are not set up to and do not operate to treat folks who need cancer treatement or diabetes, or any long term treatement or preventative care.

I saw that on the Republican debate. Sometimes I get scared about the future. But I remember that was a "Tea Zombie" hosted debate and I know that is a fringe -- a large fringe but still a fringe -- of the people in this country.

 

[Chris P.]

Jim, I would remind admissions that they are bound to accept that person due to The Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA), silly!

Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hmmmm.... brought to you by Republicans.

Then the Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia was enacted by Republicans.... what was that you were saying about Democrats?

 

[Bob Fechter]

Jeff, I understand why your mind has no room for the other side of any political debate. Here is an excellent window into university level free speech. I'm sure you recognize yourself in the attitude there, and are cheering these kids on.

GSU Abortion Activists' Epic Fail - YouTube

 

[domtoni]

Domtino, That is not true at all, The upper twenty percentile of earners and those fortunate to have a job that includes it have private healthcare if they can afford it. It is way too expensive for most people.

I have it, as does my wife, but it costs us £250 per month, and we are both in our fourties. My parents had to give it up, as being in their sixties, it was costing nearly £450 per month, and they could not afford it.

A public health service is still a wonderful thing.

The comment I made regarded people who are members here, and not the general public. I have private health cover, and it costs me GBP 900/year. Let me add that I am 61.
Yet I have used it once in the past 17 years.

Send me a PM and I will provide my insurance provider's name.

 

[domtoni]

I mentioned Medicare because thats the beginning of government influence over health care costs.

What's the total tax rate compared to the US?

What does being overweight have to do with socialized medicine, or is there an enforced diet in these countries? Same for fitness.

Higher infant mortality? prove that, unless you are including abortion in that data.

Again kidney and heart disease, I believe, are life choice issues, and I'd rather have those diseases in America than wait in line in a socialist country.

Who doesn't have access to heath care in America, unless you mean the extended waits in ER's because they have to admit everyone including the uninsured illegal aliens?

I have experience in a number of different health care systems and think the US's current system (without BHO care) is still the best. It needs serious modification to be improved. Health care for all is a great thing but Obamacare is bad legislation.

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

Jeff,

Did you catch the Republican debate in Florida......

Somone asked the question: There is a man in a coma brough to a Hospital, he does not have health insurance, what would you do?

The audiance, almost as one shouted "LET HIM DIE".

Compassionat Consevatism in action.

Bob what would you do?

Jim, You have a tendency to stretch the truth. Wolf Blitzer asked "would you let him die?" A couple of nitwits in the audience said "yeah".

 

[Bob Fechter]

I have experience in a number of different health care systems and think the US's current system (without BHO care) is still the best. It needs serious modification to be improved. Health care for all is a great thing but Obamacare is bad legislation.

The US still has an excellent system as proven by the people who can afford to come here when their socialist program has them terminally waiting in line.

We are too socialized now, and I doubt you could put the toothpaste back in the tube, so to speak. Free stuff becomes civil rights once they are experienced, but to go the Obamacare route is more than even the United States can afford.

I would add, that if it does go into effect, I doubt we will be able to afford the free military ride that Europe and most of the free world enjoys anymore.

 

[Keith]

"Free Military Ride"

I like that - that's a very very accurate statement, and it is good to know your great military efforts have bought lasting peace everywhere they have been involved

As for us in the UK of course without our particular "free ride" we would now be spikkin Cherman.. :thumbsup:

Actually, I like Cherman, it sounds so, rude! :laugh:

I haven't forgotten Plan Red you know..... :veryangry:

 

[Bob Fechter]

"Free Military Ride"

I like that - that's a very very accurate statement, and it is good to know your great military efforts have bought lasting peace everywhere they have been involved

As for us in the UK of course without our particular "free ride" we would now be spikkin Cherman.. :thumbsup:

Actually, I like Cherman, it sounds so, rude! :laugh:

I haven't forgotten Plan Red you know..... :veryangry:

I think that even the Chermans would have been angered at the inefficiency of mastering Russian just to have to learn Chinese now! ;^P

 

[Graham]

"Free Military Ride"

I like that - that's a very very accurate statement, and it is good to know your great military efforts have bought lasting peace everywhere they have been involved

As for us in the UK of course without our particular "free ride" we would now be spikkin Cherman.. :thumbsup:

Actually, I like Cherman, it sounds so, rude! :laugh:

I haven't forgotten Plan Red you know..... :veryangry:

I'm pretty sure Bob didn't catch the sarcasm there Kif...

Every penny from WW2 paid back thank you very much. We have never had a free ride from the US...Not like Israel.... :shocked:

And yet I salute every single person who helped and lost their lives in the European theatre.

Our troops are dying in Afghanistan just like yours, and Aussies, Kiwis etc. You arrogant arsehole. Show some respect for those around you. :thumbsdown:

Bob, you are such a tool. Why do you make sweeping statements that are so derogatory and arrogant about other peoples cultures. You haven't got a clue what you are writing about.

 

[Bob Fechter]

I'm pretty sure Bob didn't catch the sarcasm there Kif...

Every penny from WW2 paid back thank you very much. We have never had a free ride from the US...

Not like Israel.... :shocked:

so, you think you could have withstood the Soviet Union all by yourselves, especially after the ravages of WWII?

 

[Graham]

so, you think you could have withstood the Soviet Union all by yourselves, especially after the ravages of WWII?

Re-read my edited post.

I don't think that we could have for one second. What has that got to do with having a "free military ride" as you put it.... NOTHING. Everything done on our behalf by the US has been paid for by us in one way or another believe me.

Be consistent in your argument Bob, don't obfuscate or deflect please.

 

[Mark]

Do you Bob?

The whole "we saved you guys" rhetoric is so old. I for one am grateful to the USA. But, lets not forget, you only got involved after we had stood alone for a considerable time. Did you help us fend off the Luftwaffe after Dunkirk? I don't remember seeing waves and waves of Mustangs swooping to our defence in the summer of 1940. I also seem to recall the Societ Union shipping supplies to us whilst we stood alone. I feel quite strongly, that we managed to quite successfully defend our own boders thank you very much. Hiter gave up any plans to invade the UK before you guys 'saved' us.

Was our little Island Nation able to defend the whole of Europe against the enemy, well no, I'll give you that one. Thanks for the help. But frankly Bob, do you ask for thanks for the presents you give at Christmas every week of the following year?

As for defence from the Soviet Union, I don't recall them ever threatening our borders. I remember us standing with you when they had ICBM's pointed right in your face.

I am no historian however, so by all means, correct me where I'm wrong. And on behalf my Nation, let me personally extend my thanks to you for finally choosing to come to our aid whilst there was stil a fight left to be fought.

 

[Bob Fechter]

Re-read my edited post.

I don't think that we could have for one second. What has that got to do with having a "free military ride" as you put it.... NOTHING. Everything done on our behalf by the US has been paid for by us in one way or another believe me.

Be consistent in your argument Bob, don't obfuscate or deflect please.

I don't want to be perceived as a "you owe us" type of person. We defend the free world, but we do that for our own security.

I'm just pointing out that if we go further and further into debt, and Obamacare is a ball buster, we won't be able to afford the military defense we've been supplying to ourselves and our Allies.