A bit of reality for the Druids out there!

[Bob Fechter]

"As the graphical presentation in Figures 2a–b and 3a–b show, both
hemispheres experienced mid-Holocene temperatures above pre-industrial
(~1750 AD) values during several millennia on most locations where data are
available."

http://climategate.nl/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Lunqvistgeografie.pdf

 

[Bob Fechter]

A sceptic is not a denier, all good scientists should be sceptics

 

[Graham]

A sceptic is not a denier, all good scientists should be sceptics

Yes Bob, but they also have an open mind....

BTW, you still haven't come back to me regarding your understanding of the National Socialist (Nazi) party being "Liberal".

Just thought I'd jog your memory on that one.

 

[Graham]

Guys, another thought here. I think the Europeans (not only the British) are using climate change as an argument to force businesses to invest in green technology, whether developing new green products like solar panels, wind mills etc or investing in energy producing schemes.

My electric company is willing to pay me GBP 0.44 per kw hour for 20 years if I put solar panels on my house (have to have a south facing roof and mine isn't big enough). Over the 20 year period, it will take me 12 years to break even on my investment. And the solar panels are 14% efficient. Note 14%, on 86%. One other point here, Germany is closing its nuclear plants by 2021, and replacing the nuc plants with 50 coal fired units (obviously they have been cleaned up).

The thinking behind the policy is continue funding renewable energy sources to meet the long term enviornmental goals of the UK (and it wants to lead the world in being green).

Yanks don't pull into line quite as quickly as Europeans, and by US standards can't see the logic of doing this under the current economic and political conditions.

Domtoni,

Your figures stack up pretty much with my estimates. I have looked into this in some detail. I can fit a good sized solar panel array on my south facing roof (60 odd square metres), and on the face of it, it seems a good move...

Trouble is, the cost of the array and installation is HIGH! It simply doesn't seem to stack up with what the manufacturing costs should be (IMO). These panels should be relataively easily mass produced. We are looking at £250 for a 1.5M x 1M panel that pumps out approx only 200 watts at full pelt.

Maybe the key here is "mass production". It is still such a niche product that economies of scale have yet to come into play, along with new technological breakthroughs to reduce the costs.

When the cost comes down somewhat, then I'm up for it, but currently it is just too expensive...

 

[Terry Oxandale]

"As the graphical presentation in Figures 2a–b and 3a–b show, both
hemispheres experienced mid-Holocene temperatures above pre-industrial
(~1750 AD) values during several millennia on most locations where data are
available."

http://climategate.nl/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Lunqvistgeografie.pdf

Interesting article. As with every observation, one must ask, "what is the cause", and though this article (perhaps I breezed through it too quickly) touched on a few natural influences, I found no reference to anthropologic impacts, makeup of the atmosphere during the various periods, and perhaps geologic impacts. Perhaps a re-read later.

 

[Bob Fechter]

"Despite the recent growth, most glaciers in the nation are still smaller than they were in 1982. However, Elvehøy says that the glaciers were even smaller during the 'Medieval Warm Period' of the Viking Era, prior to around the year 1350."

DailyTech - Glaciers in Norway Growing Again

 

[Bob Fechter]

A truly fascinating chronology of early weather.

http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/images/stories/papers/reprint/chronological_listing.pdf

 

[Keith]

We are all doomed.

I suggest a copious draft of your favourite tipple and a shag while you are still able... :worried:

 

[Bob Fechter]

"Maue describes the situation in the final six words of his paper, it would appear that the long-held climate-alarmist contention that global warming increases the frequency and intensity of tropical storms is simply not true."

CO2 Science

 

[Bob Fechter]

We are all doomed.

I suggest a copious draft of your favourite tipple and a shag while you are still able... :worried:

"Bang a gong!" Marc Bolan.

 

[Chris P.]

"Despite the recent growth, most glaciers in the nation are still smaller than they were in 1982. However, Elvehøy says that the glaciers were even smaller during the 'Medieval Warm Period' of the Viking Era, prior to around the year 1350."

DailyTech - Glaciers in Norway Growing Again

Just to point something out - the quote above does not address the issue of the rate of decline of the glaciers. That is just as important as the absolute mass at this given time and worthy of research.

 

[Bob Fechter]

Global Warming Petition Project

 

[Bob Fechter]

"There is no observational evidence of unusual long-term climate changes taking place that could be linked to anthropogenic 'global warming' - despite the frequent prognostications of gloom and doom."

http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/images/stories/papers/originals/louisiana_state_profile.pdf

 

[Chris P.]

Here's an objective question that a truly neutral party on the "outside" of the debate would ask:

"If someone disregards scientific research on the grounds of it providing self-fulfilling needs and whatever other reasons that seem fit when they don't agree with the results of that research, why would that same person turn to scientific research in the same field when they do agree with those results?"

And you can't answer with hind-sight regarding what transpired with any particular studies in the past. I see day after day the same people who disregarded scientific studies on their own personal belief that the information was wrong now accepting other scientific studies at face value when it supports their side of the argument.

Now, I know there are people doing this on both sides of the argument, and the question is valid for all parties. I hope we here are the objective ones who truly take in the various information, question its validity, but in the end give research that supports both sides of the argument equal weight.

 

[Bob Fechter]

Just to point something out - the quote above does not address the issue of the rate of decline of the glaciers. That is just as important as the absolute mass at this given time and worthy of research.

http://www.americanscientist.org/is...of-kilimanjaro-can-global-warming-be-blamed/1

 

[Bob Fechter]

Now, I know there are people doing this on both sides of the argument, and the question is valid for all parties. I hope we here are the objective ones who truly take in the various information, question its validity, but in the end give research that supports both sides of the argument equal weight.[/QUOTE]

I'm glad you said that, because the other side of the Al Gore blitz has been given short shrift with the media, academia, and political venues.

 

[Frank3]

If it is such a big deal , why aren't there more EV cars built by you guys .I found one on this sight . All these smog producing machines we celebrate here , spit in the face of man made global warming . as they are unnecessary vehicles .

I'll offer my opinion on this ..... It is not a feasible technology at this point . It will be , and soon .
Kurzweil said that solar power will make fossil fuel obsolete between 2015 and 2018 .
Something about exponential growth of technology , He can explain it better ....
Ray Kurzweil on how technology will transform us | Video on TED.com


When 24 hours @ La Mans is won by a solar powered car that isn't refueled during the race , we'll be there ready to build a copy of that car .
At that point solar will be cheep , and every "reasonable person" will jump to , and the rest of us will be forced to go to it .

It won't take 100 years to get there , I think it will be soon .
Then the GT40 will still be allowed to run around on gas because there will be so few gas burners , their impact will be negligible .

 

[Chris P.]

I'm glad you said that, because the other side of the Al Gore blitz has been given short shrift with the media, academia, and political venues.

Yes they have. It would behoove everyone if they would juxtapose the Al Gore updates with findings that don't agree with his stance. I have always said that "stating the facts", as so many people claim, is not the whole story. In the true effort to be honest, one must state all the facts.

 

[Terry Oxandale]

"If someone disregards scientific research on the grounds of it providing self-fulfilling needs and whatever other reasons that seem fit when they don't agree with the results of that research, why would that same person turn to scientific research in the same field when they do agree with those results?"

You really are quite naive. It's because it all depends on if it does/does not supports their beliefs, up-bringing, or economic power. Get with the program Chris! Rather than science allowing one to become enlightened, one's belief simply enlightens the science. That is how America became such a science giant in the first place, and always wi....umm, better hold on to that thought, as I may be proven wrong in the current social/science environment.

 

[Chris P.]

You really are quite naive. It's because it all depends on if it does/does not supports their beliefs, up-bringing, or economic power. Get with the program Chris! Rather than science allowing one to become enlightened, one's belief simply enlightens the science. That is how America became such a science giant in the first place, and always wi....umm, better hold on to that thought, as I may be proven wrong in the current social/science environment.

Yes, I really need to get with the program...