A gentleman with a grasp of the problem.

[Doug S.]

Doug,

I'm afraid you are looking in the wrong place, compassion is not part of the modern Republican party. Selfish and greedy are the new words to live by.

Yes, Jim, I agree that we really need for the Republicans to get their comeuppance. IMHO, the broad centrist oriented population of the U.S. will teach them a lesson in the next election. They made the mistake of giving a small group of extremists (the TEA Party) too much influence in their decision making....perhaps it was a self-preservation tactic, I don't know....the "rank and file" can always protest to the electorate that "...we didn't do it, it was those rebel TEA Partiers" in an effort to keep their jobs.

For now, though, the majority of the American public can have little other impression of the Republican Party than that of a bunch of angry losers who are acting out of a "sour grapes" motivation. They mistook the last election's results as a mandate to turn "radical"...and made the mistake of believing that greed and selfishness would carry them through the next election.

Yep, Jim....I can't wait to get into that voting booth. In the 44 years I've been eligible to vote, I've never before voted a straight party ticket, but I might well do so next year. We Americans really need the world to see us as less of a "lunatic fringe" society, and a bit more moderation in our government would go a great distance toward giving the world a better impression of our country.

Not to mention that the Democrats historically have proven themselves more capable of driving a successful economy....people with "radical" views, such as Al, Craig, Veek...they are no more representative of the vast majority of the great American public then they are representative of the vast majority of the members of this forum (however, having said that, I must point out that the political makeup of this forum MUST be statistically skewed right of center...these cars we all love, the GT40's and SLC's, etc., they are all expensive toys and those who can afford to buy or build them are not really "centrist" in terms of financial standing, either).

Cheers from Doug!!

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

Doug and Jim, don't worry too much. One would hope that selfish tight arsed twats get their just desserts. Here's the perfect quote from A Christmas Carol:-

Ebenezer: Who are you?
Jacob Marley: Ask me who I was.
Ebenezer: All right, all right, who WERE you then?
Jacob Marley: In life, I was your partner, Jacob Marley.
Ebenezer: Well, in that case, CAN you sit down?
Jacob Marley: I can.

Ebenezer: You see that toothpick?
Jacob Marley: I do.
Ebenezer: But you're not looking at it!
Jacob Marley: Yet I see it, notwithstanding.
Ebenezer: Well, then, I'll just swallow this and be tortured by a legion of hobgoblins, all of my own creation! It's all HUMBUG, I tell you, HUMBUG!


Ebenezer: What do you want with me?
Jacob Marley: Much.

Jacob Marley: It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow men! If it goes not forth in life, it is condemned to do so after death! It is doomed to wander through the world! Oh, woe is me! And witness what it cannot share but MIGHT HAVE SHARED on Earth and turned to happiness!

Jacob Marley: I wear the chain I forged in life! I made it link by link and yard by yard! I gartered it on of my own free will and by my own free will, I wore it!

Jacob Marley: In life, my spirit never rose beyond the limits of our money-changing holes! Now I am doomed to wander without rest or peace, incessant torture and remorse!
Ebenezer: But it was only that you were a good man of business, Jacob!
Jacob Marley: BUSINESS? Mankind was my business! Their common welfare was my business! And it is at this time of the rolling year that I suffer most!

On a personal note, I earn a resonable amount of money, and would be considered middle class in many respects. However my social conscience dictates that I should pay towards those more needy than me. And no, I don't use crass arguments like "When the government can handle my money, the I'll give it to them gladly", because then you might as well keep it, as ALL governments fuck up most of the time.

Rampant Conservatism is as deadly as rampant Communism and the TEA party seem to me to be extraordinarily selfish. It's interesting to note that no extra taxes have been levied on the rich. Am I right in thinking that this was the ony way that the GOP would sign up to the debt extension?

The Super rich need to pay more taxes. Simple. And that goes for my country as well as yours.

The super rich need to pay more taxes, but not small business because of the way they file their tax return. If we do that we lose jobs.
‪Are you kidding me‬‏ - YouTube

 

[Doug S.]

It's interesting to note that no extra taxes have been levied on the rich. Am I right in thinking that this was the ony way that the GOP would sign up to the debt extension?

The Super rich need to pay more taxes. Simple. And that goes for my country as well as yours.

Graham, I think what we just witnessed was a "...failure to govern" on both sides of the fence. They ducked the issues....held off till the 11th hour and then both parties settled for less than they wanted just to get a bill passed.

However, as I think back, I guess the "system" worked, in a way. Imagine what it would have been like if either party had majorities in both houses of our government here.....the Republicans would have shoved massive cuts in entitlement programs and tax breaks for the already wealthy down the throats of the American public as their answer of how to deal with the issue, the Democrats would have shoved higher taxes down the throats of the wealthy as their answer of how to deal with the issue. Neither of those "polarized" answers is correct, IMHO....we need a balanced approach of cuts and more income, everyone in the U.S. (yes, including those greedy and selfish ultra-rich) needs to take ownership of the problem (regardless of which party historically caused it) and turning this "sinking ship" around will require sacrifices from every American, from the poor to the wealthy.

To do less would be folly.....even for the Republicans.

Cheers from Doug!!

 

[Jim Craik]

Graham, Doug...................................+1

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

Yes, Jim, I agree that we really need for the Republicans to get their comeuppance. IMHO, the broad centrist oriented population of the U.S. will teach them a lesson in the next election. They made the mistake of giving a small group of extremists (the TEA Party) too much influence in their decision making....perhaps it was a self-preservation tactic, I don't know....the "rank and file" can always protest to the electorate that "...we didn't do it, it was those rebel TEA Partiers" in an effort to keep their jobs.

For now, though, the majority of the American public can have little other impression of the Republican Party than that of a bunch of angry losers who are acting out of a "sour grapes" motivation. They mistook the last election's results as a mandate to turn "radical"...and made the mistake of believing that greed and selfishness would carry them through the next election.

Yep, Jim....I can't wait to get into that voting booth. In the 44 years I've been eligible to vote, I've never before voted a straight party ticket, but I might well do so next year. We Americans really need the world to see us as less of a "lunatic fringe" society, and a bit more moderation in our government would go a great distance toward giving the world a better impression of our country.

Not to mention that the Democrats historically have proven themselves more capable of driving a successful economy....people with "radical" views, such as Al, Craig, Veek...they are no more representative of the vast majority of the great American public then they are representative of the vast majority of the members of this forum (however, having said that, I must point out that the political makeup of this forum MUST be statistically skewed right of center...these cars we all love, the GT40's and SLC's, etc., they are all expensive toys and those who can afford to buy or build them are not really "centrist" in terms of financial standing, either).

Cheers from Doug!!

Why do you guys need to name call and judge in a discussion, we are no more radical than you, just the other side of the argument. Successful economy? Wilson, Roosevelt, Truman, Kennedy, Johnson, you guys were leaders that started all the wars for the US, didn't hear you guys screaming about war spending then, and goofy ass Carter. Please, they've all screwed up, dems and repubs.

 

[craig]

Doug and Jim, don't worry too much. One would hope that selfish tight arsed twats get their just desserts. Here's the perfect quote from A Christmas Carol:-

Ebenezer: Who are you?
Jacob Marley: Ask me who I was.
Ebenezer: All right, all right, who WERE you then?
Jacob Marley: In life, I was your partner, Jacob Marley.
Ebenezer: Well, in that case, CAN you sit down?
Jacob Marley: I can.

Ebenezer: You see that toothpick?
Jacob Marley: I do.
Ebenezer: But you're not looking at it!
Jacob Marley: Yet I see it, notwithstanding.
Ebenezer: Well, then, I'll just swallow this and be tortured by a legion of hobgoblins, all of my own creation! It's all HUMBUG, I tell you, HUMBUG!


Ebenezer: What do you want with me?
Jacob Marley: Much.

Jacob Marley: It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow men! If it goes not forth in life, it is condemned to do so after death! It is doomed to wander through the world! Oh, woe is me! And witness what it cannot share but MIGHT HAVE SHARED on Earth and turned to happiness!

Jacob Marley: I wear the chain I forged in life! I made it link by link and yard by yard! I gartered it on of my own free will and by my own free will, I wore it!

Jacob Marley: In life, my spirit never rose beyond the limits of our money-changing holes! Now I am doomed to wander without rest or peace, incessant torture and remorse!
Ebenezer: But it was only that you were a good man of business, Jacob!
Jacob Marley: BUSINESS? Mankind was my business! Their common welfare was my business! And it is at this time of the rolling year that I suffer most!

On a personal note, I earn a resonable amount of money, and would be considered middle class in many respects. However my social conscience dictates that I should pay towards those more needy than me. And no, I don't use crass arguments like "When the government can handle my money, the I'll give it to them gladly", because then you might as well keep it, as ALL governments fuck up most of the time.

Rampant Conservatism is as deadly as rampant Communism and the TEA party seem to me to be extraordinarily selfish. It's interesting to note that no extra taxes have been levied on the rich. Am I right in thinking that this was the ony way that the GOP would sign up to the debt extension?

The Super rich need to pay more taxes. Simple. And that goes for my country as well as yours.

with all due respect.......you sound like a "flake"

 

[Doug S.]

The super rich need to pay more taxes, but not small business because of the way they file their tax return. If we do that we lose jobs.

Al, we all know that having a small business creates great opportunity for tax breaks (tax dodges, in my opinion). "Income" can be adjusted by claiming everything that a business buys as an offset to income. I grew up in the agricultural capital of the country, the great midwest, and I watched as farmers bought fuel for their "farm vehicles" in bulk and then filled up their personal road cars from those very tanks. How many of us average citizens can reduce our income by our gasoline purchases by claiming them as a business expense? I also watched as ranchers would take a steer or two to the butcher, then claim on their taxes the "losses" as "shrinkage", using the value as a deduction, even though the "losses" were sitting right there in their freezers.

Having a "small business" is a great tax dodge....reducing the income has the same net effect as reducing the taxation rate.

As for jobs, businesses both large and small are hoarding money, not using those profits to hire new employees. Unemployment would not be so high if businesses weren't being so conservative in their hiring...but, in hard times, we all revert to "self-preservation" mode, so it's not unexpected. Just don't claim job growth that isn't there...

I've always promoted what I call a "flat tax"....maybe in the range of less than 10% of gross income, NO deductions, just gross income. Nobody gets ANY breaks, businesses or individuals alike.

Your friend on YouTube presents a biased viewpoint....not that there's anything wrong with that, we're all entitled to our opinion and to express it, just don't believe that it's absolute truth just because somebody says it, regardless of their orientation.

It's all "soundybtes", amigo!

Cheers from Doug!!

 

[Doug S.]

with all due respect.......you sound like a "flake"

....a true case of "there are none so blind as those who will not see".

....and, a true case of the pot calling the kettle black!!!

Cheers from Doug!!

 

[Jim Craik]

Gravy,

Do not worry, Craig has not been right about anything in a very long time, and most definatly he is continuing this trend!

 

[craig]

Yes, Jim, I agree that we really need for the Republicans to get their comeuppance. IMHO, the broad centrist oriented population of the U.S. will teach them a lesson in the next election. They made the mistake of giving a small group of extremists (the TEA Party) too much influence in their decision making....perhaps it was a self-preservation tactic, I don't know....the "rank and file" can always protest to the electorate that "...we didn't do it, it was those rebel TEA Partiers" in an effort to keep their jobs.

For now, though, the majority of the American public can have little other impression of the Republican Party than that of a bunch of angry losers who are acting out of a "sour grapes" motivation. They mistook the last election's results as a mandate to turn "radical"...and made the mistake of believing that greed and selfishness would carry them through the next election.

Yep, Jim....I can't wait to get into that voting booth. In the 44 years I've been eligible to vote, I've never before voted a straight party ticket, but I might well do so next year. We Americans really need the world to see us as less of a "lunatic fringe" society, and a bit more moderation in our government would go a great distance toward giving the world a better impression of our country.

Not to mention that the Democrats historically have proven themselves more capable of driving a successful economy....people with "radical" views, such as Al, Craig, Veek...they are no more representative of the vast majority of the great American public then they are representative of the vast majority of the members of this forum (however, having said that, I must point out that the political makeup of this forum MUST be statistically skewed right of center...these cars we all love, the GT40's and SLC's, etc., they are all expensive toys and those who can afford to buy or build them are not really "centrist" in terms of financial standing, either).

Cheers from Doug!!

hahaha I must say your guy in office now is doing a bang-up job:thumbsup:

 

[craig]

Gravy,

Do not worry, Craig has not been right about anything in a very long time, and most definatly he is continuing this trend!

Really Jim....who was right on predicting the Wisconsin supreme court judge election......I'll give you a hint.....NOT YOU hahaha knuckle head..

 

[craig]

Jim.. who was also right on the November elections, Ill give you another hint....NOT YOU hahaha

 

[craig]

Bottom line Jim you're full of "hot air" but I love you:thumbsup:

 

[Doug S.]

hahaha I must say your guy in office now is doing a bang-up job:thumbsup:

He is most assuredly doing a better job than anything the Republicans offered!

Cheers from Doug!!

 

[Jim Craik]

Craig,

I seem to remember that you prediceted a Republican takeover of both the House and the Senate, That falls a little short of being correct

I will say that you were right about...............oh yes, a Wisconsin Supreme court election.......very good!

After all our discussions, you did call a Wisconsin Supreme court election.

So I must take back what I said about you never being right

You were right once! You got me there.

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

Al, we all know that having a small business creates great opportunity for tax breaks (tax dodges, in my opinion). "Income" can be adjusted by claiming everything that a business buys as an offset to income. I grew up in the agricultural capital of the country, the great midwest, and I watched as farmers bought fuel for their "farm vehicles" in bulk and then filled up their personal road cars from those very tanks. How many of us average citizens can reduce our income by our gasoline purchases by claiming them as a business expense? I also watched as ranchers would take a steer or two to the butcher, then claim on their taxes the "losses" as "shrinkage", using the value as a deduction, even though the "losses" were sitting right there in their freezers.

Having a "small business" is a great tax dodge....reducing the income has the same net effect as reducing the taxation rate.

As for jobs, businesses both large and small are hoarding money, not using those profits to hire new employees. Unemployment would not be so high if businesses weren't being so conservative in their hiring...but, in hard times, we all revert to "self-preservation" mode, so it's not unexpected. Just don't claim job growth that isn't there...

I've always promoted what I call a "flat tax"....maybe in the range of less than 10% of gross income, NO deductions, just gross income. Nobody gets ANY breaks, businesses or individuals alike.

Your friend on YouTube presents a biased viewpoint....not that there's anything wrong with that, we're all entitled to our opinion and to express it, just don't believe that it's absolute truth just because somebody says it, regardless of their orientation.

It's all "soundybtes", amigo!

Cheers from Doug!!

That's funny, most every small business man or woman I talk to files their tax return in that way, which gives a slanted view of their personal income. That is not their income, it's money to be used by the company to grow and sustain it's existence. Go talk to small business owners, then form an opinion. This country would collapse without small business.

 

[Jim Craik]

Wilson, Roosevelt, Truman, Kennedy, Johnson, you guys were leaders that started all the wars for the US,

Posted by Al

Al, did Wilson start WW1..................................no
Al, did Roosevelt start WW2..............................no
Al, did Truman start the Korean War...................no

But you did get one right, between Kennedy and Johnson, they did start the Viet Nam war.

Al, you say the Democrats Started all the wars for the US. You should work on your history skills!

Republicans who started wars:

Remember, like Viet Nam, these wars did not need to be fought.

McKinley started the Spanish American war!
BushII started the Iraq war
BushII started the Afgan war
Reagan invaded Panama
Reagan invaded Grenada

Al I did not add in BushI, Iraq war because like WWI, WWII and Korea, they were started by others.

 

[domtoni]

This will warm your hearts:

OBAMA FACING LANDSLIDE LOSS – DICK MORRIS TV: LUNCH ALERT! at DickMorris.com

OK Jim, now for your perspective.

One of my old University friends has gone out on the limb and said he thinks BHO will withdraw from the campaign (Michelle is already looking forward to another term as first lady). I commented with "if his supporters decide he can't be re-elected, then they will drop him." It will be interesting to watch.

 

[Jim Craik]

Domtoni,

I find it funny that you would be quoting the appropriatly named Dick Morris:

The president consulted Morris in secret beginning in 1994.<SUP id=cite_ref-1 class=reference>[2]</SUP> Clinton's communications director George Stephanopoulos has said that "Over the course of the first nine months of 1995, no single person had more power over the president".<SUP id=cite_ref-2 class=reference>[3]</SUP> Morris went on to become campaign manager of Bill Clinton's successful 1996 bid for re-election to the office of President. His tenure on that campaign was cut short two months before the election, when it was revealed that he had allowed a prostitute to listen in on conversations with the President.

Dick Morris is a prostitute, he will adopt the politics of anyone who will give him a job.

Not only will Obama run, he will be re-elected.

 

[Nick]

Al, we all know that having a small business creates great opportunity for tax breaks (tax dodges, in my opinion). "Income" can be adjusted by claiming everything that a business buys as an offset to income.

Having a "small business" is a great tax dodge....reducing the income has the same net effect as reducing the taxation rate.

Doug,

As someone who ran a small business for 5 years had a very good accountant and became somewhat savvy in the tax break system I cannot argue against anything you have said.

During those 5 years I paid virtually no income tax and some corporation tax at 20% and did feel very guilty about the little tax I paid.

Did this guilt manifest itself in my giving more to those less fortunate, no it didn't I bought myself a GT40 with the money I saved. There again I am a hypocrite, and need a government to take my taxes from me as I am not going to volunteer the money to them.

Some super rich as individuals are very generous Bill Gates for example, maybe the super rich as a group are more philanthropic with their money than me, but I would not stake my life on it.

Two quotes I agree with:-

I am thankful for the taxes I pay because it means that I'm employed. ~Nancie J. Carmody

I like to pay taxes. With them I buy civilization. ~Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.