any thoughts on a 351 Windsor engine?

[Mike Huddart]

a nice 427 Windsor is say 10K

A "NICE" 427 Windsor, is there such a thing, unless you count a Dart big bore , short stroke thingy !
Mike

 

[KenB]

Those are all good ideas!

Alan, when I tried to look up the Rancho Santa Fe 100 octane station you mentioned to me, on Google, this list of 100 octane stations in Southern Ca. came up from 2008.
SoCal 100 Octane pump gas - List of locations - 6speedonline.com Forums
So far I haven't been able to find an updated list.

A station 2 miles away from me sell leaded 111 octane fuel for $8.88 a gallon or they sell it in 55 gallon drums for $484.

So that bring up the question will leaded 111 octane 'burn up' the engine? Does it need to be diluted with some 87 octane 7-Eleven fuel? If I can get the fuel right, it sure is cheaper than 'fixing' the engine.

 

[Seymour Snerd]

Ken --

Yes, in that list, the one below is the gas station in RSF:

"VP Racing fuels
6089 La Flecha 858-756-2929
VP racing fuel 100 octane at the pump @ 6.99 a gallon (4/18/2007) "

Which is the one near you? Smokey's in Oceanside or F&L Racing Fuel in Vista? Or somebody else? I might want to use them since to go to Rancho Santa Fe I have to put on a tie.

BTW, the local distributor for VP Racing Fuel is this:

El Cajon - - The SoCo Group Inc.
(619) 440-8811
[email protected]


So I'm sure they can tell who's currently selling it locally.

 

[KenB]

I called Smokey's and the owner answered and he said, 'he's tired of losing money over the past 3 years, so he leased the shop and parking lot to a Harley Davidson dealership and he's just hanging on in a small space around the back'. He quit selling 100 octane 3 years ago, after his insurance company found out he doing it and told him they were going to cancel his insurance policy.

I'm telling you, I'd be very surprised if more than 1/2 of the names on that list are still in business. Between the economy, changing attitudes on vehicles and the Environmental Protection Agency's strong armed tactics against any and all chemicals, our fuel options are decreasing everyday.

The nice thing about these GT40's is that even when gasoline is not available anymore, we'll still be able to replace our gas motors with the current electric or a condensed natural gas motor, crank it up a notch and still be kickin ass in the body of a timeless ride.

 

[KenB]

Back to the engine....if I may, I just had one more question;

In a book called "Ford Windsor Small Block Performance", it states, "In terms of displacement, a 351W can easily be stroked to 425 cubic inches". Then, 2 sentences later...."Changing a cam in a Windsor is an afternoon project."

Most often, nothing is as easy as it seems, so I'm assuming there's probably a lot more to changing a 351W into a 425 than just changing the cam in an afternoon, right? I know it's probably a foolish question, but these engines are really out of my league. Thanks...

 

[Mike Dozier]

Converting a 351 to a 427 involves replacing the entire rotating assembly.
Several vendors sell kits of the required parts ranging from reasonable to exotic.

You take your engine and kit to a reputable machine shop....and so long as you're not looking for a racing engine, you should be fine. Price varies depending on where you live and what the shop rates are...if they want over $ 2,500 labor...I'd keep looking.
Another option would be to buy a prebuilt 427 short block and swap over your top end.

As far as changing a Windsor cam in an afternoon....maybe on a 1970 pickup truck that has
a huge engine bay. In a GT40 you'll have to disassemble your entire interior before even starting to swap cams. Probably easier to pull the motor and trans to swap cams.

 

[Jac Mac]

Back to the engine....if I may, I just had one more question;

In a book called "Ford Windsor Small Block Performance", it states, "In terms of displacement, a 351W can easily be stroked to 425 cubic inches". Then, 2 sentences later...."Changing a cam in a Windsor is an afternoon project."

Most often, nothing is as easy as it seems, so I'm assuming there's probably a lot more to changing a 351W into a 425 than just changing the cam in an afternoon, right? I know it's probably a foolish question, but these engines are really out of my league. Thanks...

Reading that I could easily conclude that you are under the impression that the camshaft and crankshaft are the same item, I can assure you they are not, and yes I think engines might just be a little outside your comfort zone
Personally Im a race engine guy, I like my motors to have the ability to rev to ~7500, that in this day & age requires a solid roller cam & valvetrain to match, The suggestion by others to do the 425 stroker combo means in a std or slight oversize bore 351 block means you will need a stroke of around 4.100' or more- the 351 block is 9.5 high deck height therefore the best rod ratio you can hope for without breaking the bank will be ~1.53/1 with 6.300" rods & and pistons with ~ 1.150" pin height, `~6500 might be a safe rpm limit for that with good parts, not my cup of tea, but only you know what you want, perhaps one of Frans electric powerplants is the ticket...

 

[Seymour Snerd]

...there's probably a lot more to changing a 351W into a 425 than just changing the cam in an afternoon.

Yes, just to nail down some terminology: the camshaft sits above and parallel to the crankshaft in the base of the V, and its primary function is to open and close the intake and exhaust valves at the right time over the right distance. Held in your hands it looks like a badly messed-up broom handle.



The crankshaft is the big monster the pistons push on to make it rotate, and held in your lap (not in your hands unless you're stronger than me) looks like a badly messed up tree trunk.



In any event, the bottom line of all this is that yes you can probably "fix" your highly-tuned 351 by turning it into a more civilized but larger engine for a few thousand dollars.

I think the larger issue is whether as a buying strategy you want, as a first time buyer of an already challenging-to-own vehicle, one that pushes that envelope in several respects right out of the gate.

I suspect everyone has to learn these the hard way (I certainly did with my Lambo) but there are a few obscure-exotic-car-buying "rules" I now buy into completely:

1. Buy the best car your budget allows. Otherwise you are going to spend the rest of your time with it seeing other ones go by and thinking "Damn, I could have bought that one."
2. Buy the other guy's restoration. (IOW, don't buy a car thinking "I can always fix those things later". Buy one that's finished, ready-to-go, everything-working, no excuses. You're going to have enough problems just dealing with that.)
3. Buy like you're going to be living with this thing for a long time, because you will. The market is tiny.
4. Because the market is so tiny it's going to take a long time to obey the first three rules. Be patient.

But even it you don't, we'll still try to bail you out. :thumbsup:

 

[Grant S]

I have a 351w 427 stroker 550 hp 11.5 :1 with a redline webber fuel injection system, on pump gas never had a knock, check your timing you may have to retard it a bit and sacrifice some Hp ??? and if does not work you might want to have a look at water injection I used it in a race car I had, it worked awesome although water is getting expensive check it out you will be surprised what it will do.
Cheers.

 

[Darnel A.]

Why not convert to E85 and not change the base engine at all? E85 has a Octane rating higher than Premium gas, and is relatively cheap (compared to Racing and Av-Gas). Different companies sell conversion kits and carburetors. Just do a Google search.



Darnel.

 

[Seymour Snerd]

Why not convert to E85

There's even an E85 station in Oceanside....

 

[Scott Calabro]

I'd go with a new Coyote crate engine if I were to decide to change/modify my engine.

The value for the dollar spent is unreal.

 

[KenB]

Thanks guys, you have some great ideas....I don't have the car yet, only the airline tickets to check it out in mid-July. We'll see how the car and price negotiations go, I'll keep you posted. If I get the car, let's see what we can do with it!

Jac and Alan, thanks for setting me straight....I always knew what a camshaft was because I've seen one, even before the informative color pictures above. As far as a "crankshaft" is concerned, I've only heard that term used in regards to 'gentleman's' jokes.

Which brings the question to mind.........did you ever wonder.....
What's the difference between a Genealogist and a Gynecologist???



One looks up the family tree and the other looks up the family bush!

 

[Jim Rosenthal]

I'd see if you can get the present engine to run on pump gas with either octane boost, retarding the spark, or a combination thereof. That ought to work fine for the amount of driving time that most of these cars actually get, and if you decide later on to have a different engine built, you can do it when it suits you. 11.5 is too high for street fuel. Mine, at 10:1, runs fine on 91 or 93.